Confirmed with Link: Nathan Horton to Toronto for David Clarkson

[CapnCornelius]

Next couple years would be a dream, we got him for 5! Just think how much money we'll save when we dont have to resign Johansen

Seriously, how is it we brow beat a talented, young player like Johansen and then acquire an underachieving, overpaid piece of crap like Clarkson? What message does that send to the guys on the team when you refuse to pay them their asking price though you are already overpaying some other guy?

People were arguing about Wiz being overpaid. You can argue both sides of that. So, now we are shipping out Wiz so we can pay Clarkson for 4 more years?! When our defense is already a mess?

 

[Mike Martin]

An over paid, low production, high penalty minute guy. Amirite?

Clarkson has 10 goals this season, that's a bit more than the typical Enforcers in the league in case you haven't noticed.

 

[NotWendell]

Seriously, how is it we brow beat a talented, young player like Johansen and then acquire an underachieving, overpaid piece of crap like Clarkson? What message does that send to the guys on the team when you refuse to pay them their asking price though you are already overpaying some other guy?

People were arguing about Wiz being overpaid. You can argue both sides of that. So, now we are shipping out Wiz so we can pay Clarkson for 4 more years?! When our defense is already a mess?

You just answered your own question.

 

[major major]

So Clarkson is a drag on good players, but he also scores more goals than your fourth liners will. Not sure where to put him.

 

[blahblah]

Seriously, how is it we brow beat a talented, young player like Johansen and then acquire an underachieving, overpaid piece of crap like Clarkson? What message does that send to the guys on the team when you refuse to pay them their asking price though you are already overpaying some other guy?

So you think that paying Horton to do nothing is better than paying Clarkson to play? Interesting. Obviously the Johansen contract and this deal are totally unrelated. Now and in the future.

I get your point, but anyone with half a brain would realize that the Jackets didn't have many options since Horton's contract wasn't insured so I doubt they or their agents are going to think much of it. That will be further down the road when ice time is handed out.

 

[CapnCornelius]

Clarkson has 10 goals this season, that's a bit more than the typical Enforcers in the league in case you haven't noticed.

And its the same as Matt Calvert puts up for $1.125 million.

Man, if I'm Matty Ice, I'm asking for a big ole raise.

 

[BluejacketNut]

Seriously, how is it we brow beat a talented, young player like Johansen and then acquire an underachieving, overpaid piece of crap like Clarkson? What message does that send to the guys on the team when you refuse to pay them their asking price though you are already overpaying some other guy?

People were arguing about Wiz being overpaid. You can argue both sides of that. So, now we are shipping out Wiz so we can pay Clarkson for 4 more years?! When our defense is already a mess?

Because we have a GM that's making Howson look pretty good.

 

[mouser]

Horton's contract was our largest contract at the time.

From the tweets it seems that Horton already being injured at the beginning of his contract--not playing until January--impacted his insurance status that likely wasn't covered for 2013-2014. By the time the 2014-2015 season came around he had his degenerative back issue diagnosed and was likely rejected by the insurance plan for coverage.

Some conjecture on my part, and I'm always skeptical of tweets stating things like Columbus declined to pay for a rider in 2013-2014 to have him covered. But that would explain how this came to happen. Haven't heavily looked if Horton had any prior back issues that might have caused the insurer to exclude them but I don't think he did.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Because we have a GM that's making Howson look pretty good.

Because he was?

 

[distinctkickgmotion]

This deal could be an MBA case study on sunk costs

 

[BluejacketNut]

This whole Horton mess is making the Gaborik debacle look mild

 

[blahblah]

People were arguing about Wiz being overpaid. You can argue both sides of that. So, now we are shipping out Wiz so we can pay Clarkson for 4 more years?! When our defense is already a mess?

I'll break this into two responses. The two contracts are unrelated. It would only be relevant if we were a cap team and were willing to pay salary over the cap. I highly doubt we are.

Your making a couple of assumptions.

1. The rumors that we are shopping Wiz are true
2. If we do move Wiz it has anything to do with his contract.

Since the Clarkson deal was just done and the Wiz rumor has been ongoing, it's likely (but not certain) that they are unrelated. Sure, they could have been talking Clarkson for a while but they probably would have traded Wiz before making the move for Clarkson if that was the case.

You seem awfully angry. Wiz has grown on my and I really don't want to move him. Keep that anger at the front office for screwing up with the insurance issue. If they move Wiz, depending on the return, I'll join your angst.

 

[1857 Howitzer]

It's amazing how many insurance experts and actuaries there are on HF. Who knew?

 

[blahblah]

And its the same as Matt Calvert puts up for $1.125 million.

Man, if I'm Matty Ice, I'm asking for a big ole raise.

Give the guy a chance, he obviously had more opportunity in NJ and he should get plenty of ice time. His SOG totals are waaaay down. He could play on any of our top three lines and get a very good center and plenty of ice time to work with.

As I said, let's see what we have before you get all pissy.

 

[Socks]

It's amazing how many insurance experts and actuaries there are on HF. Who knew?

All I know is that as a fan of this team I'm increasing my coverage.

 

[CapnCornelius]

So you think that paying Horton to do nothing is better than paying Clarkson to play? Interesting. Obviously the Johansen contract and this deal are totally unrelated. Now and in the future.

I get your point, but anyone with half a brain would realize that the Jackets didn't have many options since Horton's contract wasn't insured so I doubt they or their agents are going to think much of it. That will be further down the road when ice time is handed out.

If my goal is to see the best team on the ice? Yes, paying Horton is better than paying Clarkson. Why? He stays on LTIR forever (ala Pronger) and I use the cap space to acquire another player. One worth the cap space used.

Now I have a guy who has substantial downside. If his last two years is his new ceiling, I'm paying a 3rd/4th line player $5 million and he counts against the cap preventing me from acquiring someone who can produce with a level commensurate his salary. To make matters worse, there is little chance I can hope to trade this guy later, particularly if, like most players, he gets worse with age or develops a substantial injury ala Horton.

Jarmo and JD made one mistake (not getting insurance) and now they have decided to take a risk making another one to get out of it. There is no putting lipstick on this pig.

Deals are not unrelated because they all impact budget and cap space. And if you don't think people get ticked when the guy in the locker next to them is paid more to do less, god bless you.

 

[JacketFanInFL]

This whole Horton mess is making the Gaborik debacle look mild

Ugh thanks for peeling that scab back off

 

[EspenK]

The other impact of this deal is the cap effect. We now are saddled with a guy who will count against the cap next year and for the 4 years thereafter. With him we will have 15 guys signed for next year including Dano, Wennberg and Rychel and Morin. Some are going to have to go. I'm thinking this might accelerate Anisimov or Cam's departure. Letestu is pretty much gone imo. I don't have him in the 15. This appears to have the makings of a clusterf**k of massive proportions. Trades for picks and prospects looking to me to be the return for whoever we trade.

 

[Sore Loser]

I mentioned it on the trade deadline thread, and I'm sure I'll catch flak for it - but I get the deal.

The smaller market Jackets don't have to pay a guy to sit on the shelf - something that isn't as big a deal for the larger market Leafs. In New Jersey, where he the go-to guy, Clarkson was a solid forward. In Columbus, he'll slot in on one of the top-two lines almost by default. On a line with Johansen and Foligno, if nothing else he will be a capable scorer who can clear room for them. If it's on a line with, say, Dubinsky and Calvert, Jenner and Hartnell, or any combination of the four, I think he's an effective second line player.

He was scrutinized heavily by the media in Toronto. In Columbus, he will be able to relax and play his style. The Jackets are a better coached team and he fits into the style because he's a banger.

We were going to spend the same amount of money for Nathan Horton to sit on the beach in Florida. Might as well get a guy who can play.

 

[blahblah]

It's amazing how many insurance experts and actuaries there are on HF. Who knew?

Just listening to what JK stated. Hey basically indicated that they elected to not insure him because he was going to miss 1/2 of the season. It sounded like they would have had to have some kind of clause to finish out the season for his shoulder and probably some possible related conditions. The key was he made it sound like it was voluntary.

I don't know about but I don't like my big contract FA signing play uninsured. That's a pretty big risk.

Have anything of value to add or are you just going to be a smartass?

 

[Sore Loser]

If my goal is to see the best team on the ice? Yes, paying Horton is better than paying Clarkson. Why? He stays on LTIR forever (ala Pronger) and I use the cap space to acquire another player. One worth the cap space used.

Now I have a guy who has substantial downside. If his last two years is his new ceiling, I'm paying a 3rd/4th line player $5 million and he counts against the cap preventing me from acquiring someone who can produce with a level commensurate his salary. To make matters worse, there is little chance I can hope to trade this guy later, particularly if, like most players, he gets worse with age or develops a substantial injury ala Horton.

Jarmo and JD made one mistake (not getting insurance) and now they have decided to take a risk making another one to get out of it. There is no putting lipstick on this pig.

Deals are not unrelated because they all impact budget and cap space. And if you don't think people get ticked when the guy in the locker next to them is paid more to do less, god bless you.

The issue with paying Horton to sit on the IR is that the Jackets ownership probably doesn't like the idea of spending more money than they have to.

 

[BluejacketNut]

Ugh thanks for peeling that scab back off

dont worry, its the whole hurt another body part worse and the other pain wont be as bad

Im waiting for Boomer to make his way out at the end of the game.

 

[BluejacketNut]

The issue with paying Horton to sit on the IR is that the Jackets ownership probably doesn't like the idea of spending more money than they have to.

Theyre going to love paying for a $5m guy sitting in press box healthy in 3 years

 

[CapnCornelius]

The issue with paying Horton to sit on the IR is that the Jackets ownership probably doesn't like the idea of spending more money than they have to.

Which begs the question whether (a) they didn't get insurance because they were too cheap or (b) insurance wasn't able to be acquired for some reason and our brain trust still signed a player who was a known injury risk (with a concussion history, amongst other issues) knowing they couldn't get insurance. Heck, when he was acquired I took for granted that he must have been insured, otherwise the deal was too risky.

Someone totally blew the call here and a lot of questions need to be answered. But don't count on the beat reporters to do that.

 

[punk_o_holic]

Too much to read so sorry if it was a repost.

Bob Mackenzie was saying you have to be a cap team to be able to use the LTIR and create more cap space. Since Columbus isn't up to the cap, they're unable to use the LTIR. I wonder, knowing that they were paying for Horton's contract, owner wouldn't allow to spend up to the cap?

This video talks about the insurance situation(they were planning on getting it until the back injury happened) at the 1 minute mark.

http://www.tsn.ca/video/tsn-hockey-panel-breaks-down-clarkson-deal-1.217211