Confirmed with Link: [MTL/TB] Sergachev/Drouin II
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hockey is a team sports, additions and substractions that sometimes seem equal, make huge differance on the ice.
i saw we wait and see
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
It's not an evaluation of the Drouin trade. It's an evaulation of how he alocates assets. We had a pretty decent winger core. The Drouin trade made no sense. How would you feel if MB traded Sergachev for Martin Jones? Do we really need another goalie? Same with Drouin. Do we really need another winger when our top two center spots are a league joke?
As for your narrative that he can still get a center. Well, my answer to that is he has been here 5 years and he hasn't addressed the problem. How long are we going to wait for him to stop moving the furniture around and actually solve the problem. I gave him a pass for the first 5 years because he didn't have the assets. This year he had the assets and used one important asset to fill a roster spot that did not need filling.
Let me ask you if we start the season without getting one - not two but one - center does that Drouin trade make us contenders? Or let me put the question to you differently. How long are you willing to wait for MB to resolve the center positions on this team? Until the start of this season? The next trade deadline? Or maybe next July 1st or the start of the 2018-19 season? Or at the termination of MB's next contract.
I'm not sure what the big deal is. We won the trade IMO.
What matters now is people act like Sergachev had value and Drouin doesn't.
If we wanted to(which we likely don't), we could still dangle him at similar return to sergachev anyway.
All I know is Lebrun had said on air that Colorado lost the D they could've had in Sergachev. My guess is judging by Sakic's price he wanted Sergachev++ for Duchene and we could've had Sergachev straight up for Drouin.
What matters now is people act like Sergachev had value and Drouin doesn't.
If we wanted to(which we likely don't), we could still dangle him at similar return to sergachev anyway.
All I know is Lebrun had said on air that Colorado lost the D they could've had in Sergachev. My guess is judging by Sakic's price he wanted Sergachev++ for Duchene and we could've had Sergachev straight up for Drouin.
Unfortunately, this is true. We won a trade but we did not improve the team enough by virtue of the loss to Radulov.
Price is Wright
Registered User
I've watched a lot of Sergachev in Windsor and was being very cautious with people, telling them he might not be NHL ready next year (at least not top four ready) and he still has some work to do. A lot of the people who disagreed with me were the foxhole type supporting Bergevin. I wonder how many changed their tune.
I think Drouin will be great for the Habs. Always wanted him in Montreal. Felt he was unfairly maligned in Tampa. He's gonna be great here. Sergachev could be great as well, he could be exactly what Montreal has needed for years on the blueline to replace Markov. And that hole will still stay unfilled, as there is nobody in the system to replace what Markov brought to the team. Not even half of what he brought.
Ultimately I'm fine with it. I think it was the right trade to make. Keeping Radulov, not keeping Radulov, that's just another hole Bergevin has to fill (and so far he has done it poorly with Hemsky). If the organization changes their tune about the necessity of two-way play and defence first, they could actually win some playoff games with Galchenyuk, Drouin, and Lehkonen leading the charge. If they force Drouin to play like Danault, everything I saw with him in Halifax and Tampa won't matter. He'll just become another mucker.
Another TB fan perspective on Drouin
Let me start off that I didn't like TB trading Drouin. He is a great talent who was enjoyable to watch as you never knew what he was going to do next.
That said, Drouin was not without his warts. As good as his offensive IQ is, his play in the defensive zone left a lot to be desired. Picking up the wrong guy on rushes and not making the smart pass or hustling back on D put him in Cooper's doghouse. Now to be fair, Cooper tolerated similar mistakes from other players and over time, it made the coach-player relationship strained. Yzerman seemed on a hell bent mission to trade the kid as opposed to having them work out their differences. About 12 years ago, Tampa GM forced Coach Torteralla to work out differences with Superstar Vinny L and it led them to a Cup! I think Claude Julien is going to have his hands full with Drouin based on CJ's coaching style in Boston and the style of player he liked. Drouin is no Bergeron but given the right coaching temperament, I do think he could be a top 5 NHL point producer!
Sergechev competed in the Bolts prospect tournament that includes players from the last 3 draft classes and by all accounts, he dominated. He led the tournament in goals scored which is rare for a defenseman at these type of tournaments which are meant to showcase forward skills. During the week of practice, it was apparent he was the best defenseman in the team's prospect system which does include some pretty good young players.
For the next 3 to 5 years, Montreal got much better of the deal regardless if Sergechev turns into a top pairing Defenseman because Drouin will be playing in his prime. I look forward to seeing Drouin return to Tampa in Dec and will watch to see what magic he does offensively!
Let me start off that I didn't like TB trading Drouin. He is a great talent who was enjoyable to watch as you never knew what he was going to do next.
That said, Drouin was not without his warts. As good as his offensive IQ is, his play in the defensive zone left a lot to be desired. Picking up the wrong guy on rushes and not making the smart pass or hustling back on D put him in Cooper's doghouse. Now to be fair, Cooper tolerated similar mistakes from other players and over time, it made the coach-player relationship strained. Yzerman seemed on a hell bent mission to trade the kid as opposed to having them work out their differences. About 12 years ago, Tampa GM forced Coach Torteralla to work out differences with Superstar Vinny L and it led them to a Cup! I think Claude Julien is going to have his hands full with Drouin based on CJ's coaching style in Boston and the style of player he liked. Drouin is no Bergeron but given the right coaching temperament, I do think he could be a top 5 NHL point producer!
Sergechev competed in the Bolts prospect tournament that includes players from the last 3 draft classes and by all accounts, he dominated. He led the tournament in goals scored which is rare for a defenseman at these type of tournaments which are meant to showcase forward skills. During the week of practice, it was apparent he was the best defenseman in the team's prospect system which does include some pretty good young players.
For the next 3 to 5 years, Montreal got much better of the deal regardless if Sergechev turns into a top pairing Defenseman because Drouin will be playing in his prime. I look forward to seeing Drouin return to Tampa in Dec and will watch to see what magic he does offensively!
You argued in such a silly manner, truly childish-like, about how Drouin was an addition because we still owned Radulov's rights. That only as of July 1st, unsigned, could this be considered a replacement instead of an addition. Now, exactly what I told you would happen, happened, Radulov walked. Yet here you are, still trying to argue against something so easy and simple to understand.
I mean, I know you understand this. Despite our disagreements, you're not an idiot. You are, however, purposely being stubborn here just because you like to argue.
Drouin in, Radulov out. You don't need a PhD to get this.
As it stands, both guys produced the same last year. That might change next season, but as of today, you're talking about two players who put up about the same amount of points. So ya, it's a swap and it costs us our best prospect. We will see in the coming years if it was actually worth it or a waste.
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
OldCraig71
Sleeveen
Two years in a row and two big trades and we still have Plekanec and Danault as our one-two.
There is no winning until we get a number one or 1B type of center. The best teams have a balance of everything but center ice is never a concern.
There is no winning until we get a number one or 1B type of center. The best teams have a balance of everything but center ice is never a concern.
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
Two years in a row and two big trades and we still have Plekanec and Danault as our one-two.
Why do you want a center? We got Drouin.
Either way, does drouin have zero value? People act like we have a net loss in assets.
It could easily make Gallagher or others available now.
I think most here would have been happy with a Sergachev for Duchene 1 for 1.
I think we upgraded asset wise at the very least, if Duchene were made available by a more reasonable GM i think Drouin and his contract hold more value.
I think we upgraded asset wise at the very least, if Duchene were made available by a more reasonable GM i think Drouin and his contract hold more value.
Noble
High Tech Low-Life.
No way man. I'd have been pissed, as would a lot of Hab fans.
Drouin is a much better acquisition than Duchene. He was one of the few players that I, along with many others, would actually move Serg for.
I personally think the reception would have been quite negative if the return for Serg was Duchene instead of Drouin.
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
- 30,534
- 22,171
Definitely not. Drouin to me holds more value than Sergachev, in fact.
I think your right, it could make Gallagher available. The issue I have with that is say we package Gallagher for RNH (hypothetical, just picking a C). Are we a better team? Is all this achieving putting Galchenyuk on the wing instead of Center?
IMO, if we are going to move a player like Gallagher to get a Center JUST to move Galchenyuk to the wing, it's idiotic. Galchenyuk is a terrible winger and we've seen it for 5 years now. Offensively, the kid needs to play Center to be worth that contract, if not just keep Gallagher!
This is why signing Radulov was so ****ing important. It made us overloaded on the wings. You could easily trade someone and still be comfortable at wing. You trade Gallagher, all of a sudden our wings aren't anywhere near as strong.
Drouin > Sergachev
But
Drouin << Radulov + Sergachev
This is ALL it comes down to. We spent our best trade chip on Radulov's replacement, and we lose Radulov. How's that for asset management?
stanley25
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2009
- 748
- 551
That logic is incredibly flawed.
We would definetely be a worst team without Radulov and Drouin. We offered the same contract as Dallas maybe Radulov did not want to be here who knows.
We would definetely be a worst team without Radulov and Drouin. We offered the same contract as Dallas maybe Radulov did not want to be here who knows.
DramaticGloveSave
Voice of Reason
- Apr 17, 2017
- 14,819
- 13,751
You could still trade Gallagher for a RNH and have Galchenyuk play Center
Pacioretty-RNH-Hemsky
Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Drouin
Byron-Danault-Shaw
Hudon-Plekanec-Mitchell
As well your "drouin<Radulov + sergachev comment is misleading. They are seperate entities. After the Drouin deal, MB still tried to keep Radulov. That was the plan, they just couldn't get a deal done.
Because I actually accepted the false premise you and others have been polluting this board with, begrudgingly.
The Drouin trade and the situation with Alex Radulov are completely unrelated...anyone actually making this argument should be ashamed of themselves.
At the end of the day, this is what MB has to show for. Whether he tried or not. This is where the team is and its hasn't improved.
and I repeat...
How is trading Sergachev ++ better than trading Sergachev for Drouin?
You're saying we could of gotten a #1C for a package that includes Sergachev?
What is that package?
What are the ++ in your proposal?
Is Sergachev the main component in a deal?
What do you think we could of gotten for Drouin? If you can't even explain that, then you have no point.
Anyone can throw out undevelopped trade proposals and say...
"hey, that would of been better"
Does trading Sergachev, Galchenyuk and 1st round pick for Matt Duchene make us a better team today than trading Sergachev for Drouin?
Lazy
I'm waiting to see how he'll twist what you just said.
nothing to twist...he just reiterated what I had just asked him.
Didn't answer the question, just reiterated the same baseless opinion that Sergachev and 2 other unknown components COULD have gotten us an UNKNOWN #1C.
Yeah...awesome conclusion you two have come up with.
This team would still be NOT be a contender had they managed to sign Radulov...
the only way you can connect the Drouin trade and Radulov...is perhaps to highlight that the acquisition of Drouin, made re-signing Radulov less of a priority.
Other than that, the trade and Radulov are completely two separate entities...some of this boards most vocal members who think because they talk the loudest, control everyone's thoughts will have you think otherwise.
But even they know it's unrelated...
Shameful
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It's not flawed at all.
He could have just as well paid Radulov the difference in tax and taken a higher cap hit if that's what it took. He didn't get Radulov on HIS terms, which is what I'm arguing, his terms, or "method" for building this team is what is flawed. Not my logic.
60pt winger out
Top Prospect out
60pt winger in
That's all there is to it. The rest is failure by Bergevin to find ways to improve this team. It's why he has no business running this hockey club.
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