Confirmed with Link: [MTL/TB] Sergachev/Drouin II

[Hansman]

Don't know why people complain about this trade. Habs needed offence in the worst way and they got a rising star, and a French Canadian no less. I mean maybe people could question the move if Drouin was 28 years old, but he's only 28 at the end of his 6 year team-friendly contract with the team. The team needed more speed, more creativity, more PP presence and more youth. They checked all of the boxes with this trade.

"He's not a centre!!1!!1". Who the **** cares? Is Patrick Kane a centre? No, but he still controls the play completely from the wing. Drouin is the same type of player.

But I guess people will complain about anything.

Drouin is a proven talent over a prospect.I'll take this trade any day.

 

[Kriss E]

Johansen, Neal, Subban, Forsberg, Eckholm, Josi, Ellis.......ya......Nashville was hurting for talent

RyanJo was injured. You're just arguing for the sake of it, Pens were favored to win, Nashville didn't choke. Only reason you say this is because you hated that people cheered for Subban's team, which, again, is fine as long as you own up to it.

Wonder where GMs would rank Letang vs Subban........hmmmmmm

Lol.....whatcha wanted me to say.....Subban is a super duper good defenseman

Subban finished with 1 more goal than Weber in last years playoffs......lol

Anyways.....this is the wrong thread to talk about this, so this will be my last post on this matter

Ya...he also finished with 9 more points and 16 more games played, but hey, why paint a full picture...
Totally fair

 

[E82]

Johansen, Neal, Subban, Forsberg, Eckholm, Josi, Ellis.......ya......Nashville was hurting for talent

Wonder where GMs would rank Letang vs Subban........hmmmmmm

Lol.....whatcha wanted me to say.....Subban is a super duper good defenseman

Subban finished with 1 more goal than Weber in last years playoffs......lol

Anyways.....this is the wrong thread to talk about this, so this will be my last post on this matter

lmao stop it with this talk. Letang is not being chosen ahead of Subban by no GM especially knowing Letang's history of injuries.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Do you really think the Habs could of gotten a #1C for Sergachev alone?

I'll assume not...so this lazy narrative that everyone keeps repeating about "using our best prospect to fill a position we didn't need" is just that.

Lazy

Lazy is also using the strawman of pretending people always mean trading Sergachev one-for-one when they talk about using him as a trade asset to get a center. As if he couldn't be packaged with another player with great value.

BTW, RyJo was traded for an underwhelming Seth Jones, and Sergachev was traded for Drouin, so the value isn't that far off to get a center.

It's extremely lazy and dishonest.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Lazy is also using the strawman of pretending people always mean trading Sergachev one-for-one when they talk about using him as a trade asset to get a center. As if he couldn't be packaged with another player with great value.

BTW, RyJo was traded for an underwhelming Seth Jones, and Sergachev was traded for Drouin, so the value isn't that far off to get a center.

It's extremely lazy and dishonest.

Seth Jones>>>>>>>>>>> Sergachev

 

[Mrb1p]

Seth Jones>>>>>>>>>>> Sergachev

Seth Jones >>>>>>>>>>> Johansen, Weber, Subban, Josi, and any other piece you can think of.

 

[japhi]

Lazy is also using the strawman of pretending people always mean trading Sergachev one-for-one when they talk about using him as a trade asset to get a center. As if he couldn't be packaged with another player with great value.

BTW, RyJo was traded for an underwhelming Seth Jones, and Sergachev was traded for Drouin, so the value isn't that far off to get a center.

It's extremely lazy and dishonest.

Nothing about Jones was underwhelming, when traded he was the best D man his age in the league. He was playing top 4, 20 minutes at 19 years old. Columbus knew exactly what they were getting, a #1 dman. He's only 22 and is a better player then Johansen already.

Nashville got the number 1 c they had been looking for for a decade but they gave up a big time asset. Serge has no where near the value Jones had when traded.

 

[le_sean]

Yet here is Columbus looking for a 1C whereas they'd be okay without Jones due to the progression of Werenski. Now they don't want to give either up, rightfully so, but they will have to sell low on Ryan Murray to get a 2C or throw in their best prospect in PLD and overpay.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Yet here is Columbus looking for a 1C whereas they'd be okay without Jones due to the progression of Werenski. Now they don't want to give either up, rightfully so, but they will have to sell low on Ryan Murray to get a 2C or throw in their best prospect in PLD and overpay.

I think Columbus is okay with that. Jones-Werenski is not only their future, but the future of the US national team as well.

Also... Wennberg?

 

[417]

Lazy is also using the strawman of pretending people always mean trading Sergachev one-for-one when they talk about using him as a trade asset to get a center. As if he couldn't be packaged with another player with great value.

funny how i can't use this logic when suggesting we can replace Radulov...here you are using it here though.

You have no shame

BTW, RyJo was traded for an underwhelming Seth Jones, and Sergachev was traded for Drouin, so the value isn't that far off to get a center.

Seth Jones had 200 NHL games under his belt when he was traded...what's the link with Sergachev here?

It's extremely lazy and dishonest

Not to mention shameful

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Even if you want to argue that Sergachev could have been packaged with something else to get that center.. why can't the same be said of Drouin? Oh ya, right, because Drouin has immediately become a core piece on a sweet contract that would be damn near untouchable.

Bottom line: Amazing trade.

 

[le_sean]

I think Columbus is okay with that. Jones-Werenski is not only their future, but the future of the US national team as well.

Also... Wennberg?

Wennberg is more of a 2C now. They have a window where they have guys on good contracts that they need to take advantage of. They got demolished by Pittsburgh and I don't think switching Saad for Panarin changes that.

 

[ColinO]

Even if you want to argue that Sergachev could have been packaged with something else to get that center.. why can't the same be said of Drouin? Oh ya, right, because Drouin has immediately become a core piece on a sweet contract that would be damn near untouchable.

Bottom line: Amazing trade.

Legitimate point.

 

[417]

Lazy is pretending like this is some new need that just arosen in the past season.
Since he took over as GM there has been discussions about our top center position.
So ya, lazy you say..

don't see how that changes anything of what I wrote...

The Habs had an opportunity to add a 22yr old core forward...the cost was their best prospect.

Prospects are assets...I don't see what the issue is here?

So they should of just held on to Sergachev unless some teams GM was high enough to trade them their #1C for Sergachev?

While you sit around whining about how we have no offense?

I bet you would of loved that...I get it now

 

[Kriss E]

don't see how that changes anything of what I wrote...

The Habs had an opportunity to add a 22yr old core forward...the cost was their best prospect.

Prospects are assets...I don't see what the issue is here?

So they should of just held on to Sergachev unless some teams GM was high enough to trade them their #1C for Sergachev?

While you sit around whining about how we have no offense?

I bet you would of loved that...I get it now

I have no issues with this trade. You said someone had a lazy narrative for thinking we could have gotten a center for Sergachev.
First, he never claimed Sergachev could fetch a center alone, you just flat out invented that crap.
Second, the center issue has been around for years. It could and should have been fixed by now.

So ya, if anyone is lazy, it ain't that poster.

 

[417]

Let me give you an example outside of hockey. Your wife comes up to you and says you guys should buy a house. Your reply is we don't have the down payment right now. So instead of figuring out how to get that down payment she replies okay then let's buy a SUV. Does that make any sense to you?

Cool story...i'm moved

If Sergachev wouldn't get you a #1 center then how about adding to it. Is that beyond the scope of your comprehension?

I would of had no issue if the team would of packaged Sergachev ++ for a #1C.

And no one is arguing for an elite, established #1 center

. After all Drouin has proven next to nothing in the NHL and is definitely not an established, top-end NHL winger.

So let me get this straight...you would have preferred MB trade Sergachev ++ for a not-established #1C?

Is that YOUR reasoning here?

And if Jonathan Drouin has proven next to nothing in the NHL and you readily acknowledge that...how can you turn around and suggest using Mikhail Sergachev as the main chip in a trade for a quasi #1C??

You'll have to explain that one to me..

The adage of the old Canadiens teams, that won multiple cups, was strength down the middle. Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA in recent years have proven that adage to be true.

Agreed...i've been talking about the Habs being weak down the middle since before Bergevin ever came on board.

But there are many ways to 'skin a cat'...just because they traded Sergachev, doesn't mean they don' thave any ammunition to get a center.

Thats another lazy argument put forth which isn't passing the smell test.
.

Point to me a team that has won the cup without a #1 or #2 center

If I was arguing the point that we don't need a #1 or #2 center, I could understand why you're asking me that question.

But I haven't...

I don't see what ANY of this has to do with evaluating the acquisition of Jonathan Drouin. It's a completely different discussion.

 

[417]

LOL. Now that is funny.

It's even funnier once you realise he's simultaneously arguing that we could have used Sergachev (whether alone or as the main component in a bigger deal) to get a #1C.

Jonathan Drouin isn't proven...but the less proven Sergachev (and maybe or maybe not more) gets you a #1C.

 

[417]

People complain about this trade because we swapped Drouin for Radulov, two guys that produced about the same last year, and in the process it costs us our best prospect.
Now, maybe Drouin becomes an elite winger, putting up around ppg ratio. If that's the case, then this trade will be praised whenever it happens. But if you don't believe Drouin will become a top end guy and will just be similar to what he did last season, well then there's not much to praise as it's a lateral step, and a costly one as we paid Sergachev for it.

So people complain because they've intricately woven a delicate strawman based on a false premise?

Makes total sense.

The trade, since you seemed to have forgotten, was Drouin + conditional pick for Sergachev + conditional pick.

This whole link to Radulov is so transparent...it's become accepted that they are somehow really linked.

Please

 

[DAChampion]

So people complain because they've intricately woven a delicate strawman based on a false premise?

Makes total sense.

The trade, since you seemed to have forgotten, was Drouin + conditional pick for Sergachev + conditional pick.

This whole link to Radulov is so transparent...it's become accepted that they are somehow really linked.

Please

Drouin and Weber are both win now moves, which is fine.

Given that Bergevin wants to win, he should add. But he's not adding.

A five year contract for Radulov would have meant better odds at the cup now and lesser odds in five years. That would have been fair, as we know that five years from now the cup window will be closed.

 

[417]

Then add a Drouin to Toronto or Ottawa scenario and this board melts down. It's typical HF behaviour....after 10yrs of being here, I'm starting to get it lol

I think what kills me the most...is for years we've been, and rightfully so, complaining about Bergevin's inability to add a top 6 forward (whether wing or center, we ALL recognised the need to improve the top 6).

He finally goes out and does just that...

Then the complaints shift to the price paid to acquire that top 6 forward.

 

[417]

I have no issues with this trade. You said someone had a lazy narrative for thinking we could have gotten a center for Sergachev.
First, he never claimed Sergachev could fetch a center alone, you just flat out invented that crap.
Second, the center issue has been around for years. It could and should have been fixed by now.

So ya, if anyone is lazy, it ain't that poster.

If he never said that...then what was his point exactly?

What is the point of saying the Habs traded their best prospect to add a player he's essentially saying they didn't need?

Perhaps you can explain on his behalf.

 

[417]

Drouin and Weber are both win now moves, which is fine.

I don't buy this narrative either.

Jonathan Drouin is 22yrs old...he's signed at a very affordable rate for the next 6yrs, how is this is a win 'now' move?

Its as much for now AND the future.

As for Weber...I don't think you're going to see a big difference to this team whether or not Weber was here or Subban. They're the same tier'ish of Dmen.

I prefer Subban...but right, the difference is negligible on the overall impact on their teams IMO.

That could change for Subban, though i'm not personally convinced.

Given that Bergevin wants to win, he should add. But he's not adding.

The Drouin trade was an ADD...but agreed, he hasn't done anything to really reinforce that trade for now.

But he's got available capspace...I hope he has a plan.

A five year contract for Radulov would have meant better odds at the cup now and lesser odds in five years. That would have been fair, as we know that five years from now the cup window will be closed.

This exact team with Radulov isn't any more of a contender than they are today without him because we are STILL way too weak down the middle.

 

[DAChampion]

I don't buy this narrative either.

Jonathan Drouin is 22yrs old...he's signed at a very affordable rate for the next 6yrs, how is this is a win 'now' move?

Its as much for now AND the future.

As for Weber...I don't think you're going to see a big difference to this team whether or not Weber was here or Subban. They're the same tier'ish of Dmen.

I prefer Subban...but right, the difference is negligible on the overall impact on their teams IMO.

That could change for Subban, though i'm not personally convinced.


The Drouin trade was an ADD...but agreed, he hasn't done anything to really reinforce that trade for now.

But he's got available capspace...I hope he has a plan.


This exact team with Radulov isn't any more of a contender than they are today without him because we are STILL way too weak down the middle.

The Habs were not contenders last year, they needed additional offense.

Since then, they have added Drouin and subtracted Radulov.

So no progress made.

 

[HankyZetts]

Bless you, 417.

 

[yianik]

Sergachev for Drouin was a good trade for us for today and the long term.

Sure enough we need a top C, but we were also missing an elite puck handler, and Drouin is that. To get a top C with that kind of puck skill you are talking about top Cs that are just not available, unless you believe Tavares is available.