Confirmed with Link: [MTL/TB] Sergachev/Drouin II

[417]

Did you even read the post? Why are you focusing on one player and not the level? You literally just told a poster not to do exactly what you are doing.
If this is a package we are willing to put forth, then the value in return should be of a top center, not a top 6 one.

Because YOU or someone else, not sure, brought up John Tavares specifically.

It's fine, it's understood that we're talking about a center that's at the level of John Tavares.

So we're basically talking about 5-6 NHL centers

Crosby? McDavid? Malkin? Getzlaf? Toews?

Anyone else?

So what you're saying is, you would of preferred Bergevin sit around and wait for one of those teams to basically do the Habs a favor, and trade one of the top 5 or 6 centers in the game for

Mikhail Sergachev + Alex Galchenyuk + some undetermined draft picks?

Seems plausible...seems like a better plan than making a move that helps the team IMMEDIATELY and in the future...seems like you and others would totally have the patience to wait for one of those trades to materialize.

 

[HankyZetts]

Hmm...is this some type of analogy to illustrate that while i'm focused on the Drouin trade, i'm missing the fact that we're still weak down the middle?

It can't be, because i've been at the forefront for YEARS about how weak we are down the middle.

So perhaps you should look at that analogy and apply it to yourself.

Me being the tree, the forest being reality.



Wrong, quite a few, lead by you and a few vocal others, have basically put an asterix on the trade because it didn't address our biggest need.

Like our biggest need isn't offense, PERIOD. The GM should do nothing until a trade for a #1C like John Tavares materializes.

Yeah, i'm sure you'd have a ton of patience for that



But this is FACTUALLY inaccurate....you've decided to switch your crusade of getting a top 6 forward, to now having it EXCLUSIVELY be a center. This is so ridiculous, I can find so many posts from you the last 3-4 years whining about Bergevin's inability to land a top 6 forward.

He FINALLY does, and now your arguments shifts to it not filling a need, which is absolutely ludicrous.



what if we trade Gallagher for equal value at center? or what if we package Gallagher and some draft picks, do you think we could get a solid #2C?

Is that a bit more realistic than throwing out the incredibly unlikely scenario that the New York Islanders, who are trying to save their franchise by re-signing their franchise player, are going to accept Alex Galchenyuk (a player teams didn't seem all that interested in this summer) + Mikhail Sergachev + some more undetermined number of draft picks?

Really?



Funny how you dismiss this argument when I suggest we didn't need to re-sign Radulov at any cost, since it would just bolster an area of the team that's already strong.

Yet here you are, arguing just that

At least give me the courtesy of acknowledging it works both ways



I'm over here playing chess, while you're out here playing checkers

Here's an EXACT quote from Kriss E dated January 2016 - while Drouin was going through his episode with Cooper/Yzerman



Some more gems here



So about 18 months ago, you believed Jonathan Drouin had playmaking abilities rivalling Joe Thornton, he cnan help other players score more.

Furthermore, you then suggested Bergevin didn't have the stomach to trade for Jonathan Drouin because he'd never want to pay the premium.

Yet here you are 18 months later, complaining about what?

Drumroll please...

THE VERY PREMIUM BERGEVIN ENDED UP PAYING!

Sorry man...I don't like to go back and post things people say in the past, we all get things wrong, but the way you've shifted your argument as soon as Drouin was acquired is shameful.

How can your opinion on a player chance so drastically in 18 months, despite the fact that all he did was progress as a player.

We ALL agree that it would of been ideal if they could of traded Sergachev for a center, hell, if Drouin was actually a center, this would be an even BETTER trade.

But the reality is, we've criticized Bergevin for sitting on his hands and not making meaningful moves, he finally goes out and does just that, and you want to put forth this lame argument about how Jonathan Drouin, who I will remind you again, 18 months ago thought was good enough to be compared to Joe Thornton as a playmaker...

"Doesn't fill a need"???

Chess Kriss E...not Checkers

This is checkmate, right??

 

[HankyZetts]

We say our biggest need is C, but actually it is "creative offensive player". Usually that is a center, but there are exceptions like Guy Lafleur was, like Patrick Kane is, and like Jonathan Drouin is (hopefully he peaks out at 75% or more of what they are/were).

So getting Drouin did fill a big need. He's not just a finisher who requires someone else to drive the play. He himself IS the driver.

I agree 100%.

We needed an offensive catalyst who could control the pace of the game. I think we got that with Jo. I think now we just need some dependable centers. I like Danault and Pleky in their roles, but would love a guy like RNH on an offensive line.

Maybe Chucky can replace Pleks in the next year or two if he can figure his defensive game out a bit. Keep up the leg presses Chuck!!

 

[Andrei79]

Hmm...is this some type of analogy to illustrate that while i'm focused on the Drouin trade, i'm missing the fact that we're still weak down the middle?

It can't be, because i've been at the forefront for YEARS about how weak we are down the middle.

So perhaps you should look at that analogy and apply it to yourself.

Me being the tree, the forest being reality.



Wrong, quite a few, lead by you and a few vocal others, have basically put an asterix on the trade because it didn't address our biggest need.

Like our biggest need isn't offense, PERIOD. The GM should do nothing until a trade for a #1C like John Tavares materializes.

Yeah, i'm sure you'd have a ton of patience for that



But this is FACTUALLY inaccurate....you've decided to switch your crusade of getting a top 6 forward, to now having it EXCLUSIVELY be a center. This is so ridiculous, I can find so many posts from you the last 3-4 years whining about Bergevin's inability to land a top 6 forward.

He FINALLY does, and now your arguments shifts to it not filling a need, which is absolutely ludicrous.



what if we trade Gallagher for equal value at center? or what if we package Gallagher and some draft picks, do you think we could get a solid #2C?

Is that a bit more realistic than throwing out the incredibly unlikely scenario that the New York Islanders, who are trying to save their franchise by re-signing their franchise player, are going to accept Alex Galchenyuk (a player teams didn't seem all that interested in this summer) + Mikhail Sergachev + some more undetermined number of draft picks?

Really?



Funny how you dismiss this argument when I suggest we didn't need to re-sign Radulov at any cost, since it would just bolster an area of the team that's already strong.

Yet here you are, arguing just that

At least give me the courtesy of acknowledging it works both ways



I'm over here playing chess, while you're out here playing checkers

Here's an EXACT quote from Kriss E dated January 2016 - while Drouin was going through his episode with Cooper/Yzerman



Some more gems here



So about 18 months ago, you believed Jonathan Drouin had playmaking abilities rivalling Joe Thornton, he cnan help other players score more.

Furthermore, you then suggested Bergevin didn't have the stomach to trade for Jonathan Drouin because he'd never want to pay the premium.

Yet here you are 18 months later, complaining about what?

Drumroll please...

THE VERY PREMIUM BERGEVIN ENDED UP PAYING!

Sorry man...I don't like to go back and post things people say in the past, we all get things wrong, but the way you've shifted your argument as soon as Drouin was acquired is shameful.

How can your opinion on a player chance so drastically in 18 months, despite the fact that all he did was progress as a player.

We ALL agree that it would of been ideal if they could of traded Sergachev for a center, hell, if Drouin was actually a center, this would be an even BETTER trade.

But the reality is, we've criticized Bergevin for sitting on his hands and not making meaningful moves, he finally goes out and does just that, and you want to put forth this lame argument about how Jonathan Drouin, who I will remind you again, 18 months ago thought was good enough to be compared to Joe Thornton as a playmaker...

"Doesn't fill a need"???

Chess Kriss E...not Checkers

Savage. What a beatdown.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree 100%.

We needed an offensive catalyst who could control the pace of the game. I think we got that with Jo. I think now we just need some dependable centers. I like Danault and Pleky in their roles, but would love a guy like RNH on an offensive line.

Maybe Chucky can replace Pleks in the next year or two if he can figure his defensive game out a bit. Keep up the leg presses Chuck!!

This ^ (bolted part)

 

[Kriss E]

Because YOU or someone else, not sure, brought up John Tavares specifically.

It's fine, it's understood that we're talking about a center that's at the level of John Tavares.

So we're basically talking about 5-6 NHL centers

Crosby? McDavid? Malkin? Getzlaf? Toews?

Anyone else?

So what you're saying is, you would of preferred Bergevin sit around and wait for one of those teams to basically do the Habs a favor, and trade one of the top 5 or 6 centers in the game for

Mikhail Sergachev + Alex Galchenyuk + some undetermined draft picks?

Seems plausible...seems like a better plan than making a move that helps the team IMMEDIATELY and in the future...seems like you and others would totally have the patience to wait for one of those trades to materialize.

The patience?..It's been 6 years. Time for you to realize this. This isn't his first summer on the job, nor his second, nor his third, nor his fourth, nor his fifth.
Heck, he couldn't even trade a couple draft picks for a guy like Johanssen this summer.
So no, I'm not going to give him a pass on this.

 

[417]

The patience?..It's been 6 years. Time for you to realize this. This isn't his first summer on the job, nor his second, nor his third, nor his fourth, nor his fifth.
Heck, he couldn't even trade a couple draft picks for a guy like Johanssen this summer.
So no, I'm not going to give him a pass on this.

Not sure how any of this responds to the post you just quoted..

and for the record, i've been roasting Bergevin soundly for missing out on the Johansson trade.

But that trade just illustrates what i've been saying ALL summer (something you've tried to subdue continuously)

Is that Bergevin can improve this team by making astute trades...the Drouin trade, IMO, was an astute trade.

Shero acquiring Johansson for draft picks? Astute trade...

He needs to target a similar center and make a similar trade.

 

[Kriss E]

Hmm...is this some type of analogy to illustrate that while i'm focused on the Drouin trade, i'm missing the fact that we're still weak down the middle?

It can't be, because i've been at the forefront for YEARS about how weak we are down the middle.

So perhaps you should look at that analogy and apply it to yourself.

Me being the tree, the forest being reality.

Euh...sure?..

Wrong, quite a few, lead by you and a few vocal others, have basically put an asterix on the trade because it didn't address our biggest need.

Like our biggest need isn't offense, PERIOD. The GM should do nothing until a trade for a #1C like John Tavares materializes.

Yeah, i'm sure you'd have a ton of patience for that

I didn't put an asterisk, you did. He shouldn't have done nothing.
First off, he had 6 years to fix these issues.
Second, what people are saying is they rather he would have re-signed Radu and gone after a center.
Third, again, he had 6 years to address this.

But this is FACTUALLY inaccurate....you've decided to switch your crusade of getting a top 6 forward, to now having it EXCLUSIVELY be a center. This is so ridiculous, I can find so many posts from you the last 3-4 years whining about Bergevin's inability to land a top 6 forward.

He FINALLY does, and now your arguments shifts to it not filling a need, which is absolutely ludicrous.

NEWSFLASH: Priorities change.
If you are on your way to the ER because you need some stitches, on the way you get hit by a bus and now your tibia is sticking out, what do you think they will address first?
You're so damn hell bent on simply trying to be right and ridicule other posters that you can't even follow discussions.
Four years ago we had a function center in Plekanec, we had Galchenyuk as the newly drafted top center and we had Eller who, despite his limitations, still had shown steady progression. So 4 years ago, it made sense to be patient down the middle, but we needed to bulk up the wings. He failed to do it.
After last season, it became quite clear that our biggest issue was the center line.
So the priorities change.
What I love here though is you are bringing up things I was discussing a problem that took Bergevin 4 freaking years to finally address....4 years!!!
And you think this makes me look bad??

what if we trade Gallagher for equal value at center? or what if we package Gallagher and some draft picks, do you think we could get a solid #2C?

Is that a bit more realistic than throwing out the incredibly unlikely scenario that the New York Islanders, who are trying to save their franchise by re-signing their franchise player, are going to accept Alex Galchenyuk (a player teams didn't seem all that interested in this summer) + Mikhail Sergachev + some more undetermined number of draft picks?

Really?

We could have had Johansson for couple draft picks and he missed out on that.
You kept talking about Duchene and Hanzal, nope, didn't get those guys either.

Funny how you dismiss this argument when I suggest we didn't need to re-sign Radulov at any cost, since it would just bolster an area of the team that's already strong.

Yet here you are, arguing just that

At least give me the courtesy of acknowledging it works both ways

As I previously stated, it depends which direction you want to go.
If you're not going to bring in any center at all, then yes, absolutely sign Radu.
If you don't sign Radu, I assume it's because you are bringing someone at center. If you don't, then we are just back where we were last year, which is unacceptable.

All very consistent, try to follow.

I'm over here playing chess, while you're out here playing checkers

Here's an EXACT quote from Kriss E dated January 2016 - while Drouin was going through his episode with Cooper/Yzerman

Some more gems here

So about 18 months ago, you believed Jonathan Drouin had playmaking abilities rivalling Joe Thornton, he cnan help other players score more.

Furthermore, you then suggested Bergevin didn't have the stomach to trade for Jonathan Drouin because he'd never want to pay the premium.

Yet here you are 18 months later, complaining about what?

Drumroll please...

THE VERY PREMIUM BERGEVIN ENDED UP PAYING!

Complaining? Here's another quote of mine:

The trade in and of itself is good

Wow man, you totally got me brah!

Sorry man...I don't like to go back and post things people say in the past, we all get things wrong, but the way you've shifted your argument as soon as Drouin was acquired is shameful.

How can your opinion on a player chance so drastically in 18 months, despite the fact that all he did was progress as a player.

I wonder what happened over that stretch that could have made me shift...geez...did we happen to sign a certain top 6 guy already?? Oh ya, that guy, what's his name...starts with Radu..
We also saw Lek and Byron turn into interesting wingers for us.
We had the top 6. After getting Radu, a much bigger need opened at center.
I mean really, you obviously only care about trying to show off and win some type of internet battle, which you are failing at miserably btw because if you let your petty little guard down, this discussion would be much more appreciable and easy to follow for you.

We ALL agree that it would of been ideal if they could of traded Sergachev for a center, hell, if Drouin was actually a center, this would be an even BETTER trade.

But the reality is, we've criticized Bergevin for sitting on his hands and not making meaningful moves, he finally goes out and does just that, and you want to put forth this lame argument about how Jonathan Drouin, who I will remind you again, 18 months ago thought was good enough to be compared to Joe Thornton as a playmaker...

"Doesn't fill a need"???

Chess Kriss E...not Checkers

Yes, as our team stood with Radulov, Drouin did not fill a need. Our need was down the middle. One top center, or two top 6 centers, then one PMD. We did not need more wingers with Galch-Pac-Lek-Radu-Byron-Gallagher.

Very simple to get.

 

[Habs4Life]

Euh...sure?..


I didn't put an asterisk, you did. He shouldn't have done nothing.
First off, he had 6 years to fix these issues.
Second, what people are saying is they rather he would have re-signed Radu and gone after a center.
Third, again, he had 6 years to address this.


NEWSFLASH: Priorities change.
If you are on your way to the ER because you need some stitches, on the way you get hit by a bus and now your tibia is sticking out, what do you think they will address first?
You're so damn hell bent on simply trying to be right and ridicule other posters that you can't even follow discussions.
Four years ago we had a function center in Plekanec, we had Galchenyuk as the newly drafted top center and we had Eller who, despite his limitations, still had shown steady progression. So 4 years ago, it made sense to be patient down the middle, but we needed to bulk up the wings. He failed to do it.
After last season, it became quite clear that our biggest issue was the center line.
So the priorities change.
What I love here though is you are bringing up things I was discussing a problem that took Bergevin 4 freaking years to finally address....4 years!!!
And you think this makes me look bad??



We could have had Johansson for couple draft picks and he missed out on that.
You kept talking about Duchene and Hanzal, nope, didn't get those guys either.



As I previously stated, it depends which direction you want to go.
If you're not going to bring in any center at all, then yes, absolutely sign Radu.
If you don't sign Radu, I assume it's because you are bringing someone at center. If you don't, then we are just back where we were last year, which is unacceptable.

All very consistent, try to follow.

Complaining? Here's another quote of mine:

Wow man, you totally got me brah!



I wonder what happened over that stretch that could have made me shift...geez...did we happen to sign a certain top 6 guy already?? Oh ya, that guy, what's his name...starts with Radu..
We had the top 6. After getting him, a much bigger need opened at center.
I mean really, you obviously only care about trying to show off and win some type of internet battle, which you are failing at miserably btw because if you let your petty little guard down, this discussion would be much more appreciable and easy to follow for you.


Yes, as our team stood with Radulov, Drouin did not fill a need. Our need was down the middle. One top center, or two top 6 centers, then one PMD. We did not need more wingers with Galch-Pac-Lek-Radu-Byron-Gallagher.

Very simple to get.

actually a good center is very difficult to get just try it on ps4

 

[417]

I didn't put an asterisk, you did. He shouldn't have done nothing.
First off, he had 6 years to fix these issues.
Second, what people are saying is they rather he would have re-signed Radu and gone after a center.
Third, again, he had 6 years to address this.

Hold up...you're ACTUALLY arguing that he shouldn't of done anything??

From the same guy whose been more vocal than anyone about the GM doing NOTHING??

Good lord.

As for him having 6yrs to fix the issue?

What is your point here? Why do you keep giving me this timeline?

NEWSFLASH: Priorities change.
If you are on your way to the ER because you need some stitches, on the way you get hit by a bus and now your tibia is sticking out, what do you think they will address first?
You're so damn hell bent on simply trying to be right and ridicule other posters that you can't even follow discussions.
Four years ago we had a function center in Plekanec, we had Galchenyuk as the newly drafted top center and we had Eller who, despite his limitations, still had shown steady progression. So 4 years ago, it made sense to be patient down the middle, but we needed to bulk up the wings. He failed to do it.
After last season, it became quite clear that our biggest issue was the center line.
So the priorities change.
What I love here though is you are bringing up things I was discussing a problem that took Bergevin 4 freaking years to finally address....4 years!!!

Priorities change? LOL

our centers were bad 5yrs ago, they're worse now...the priority didn't change, just the level of urgency to fix it. Which he still can and it doesn't HAVE to be by using Sergachev either.

That's just a lazy argument you've put forth.

Not buying it.

Ray Shero just proved my point.

And you think this makes me look bad??

I never said you looked bad, perhaps thats just a conclusion you've reached on your own.

We could have had Johansson for couple draft picks and he missed out on that.
You kept talking about Duchene and Hanzal, nope, didn't get those guys either.

And ONCE AGAIN, i'll reiterate...I criticized him soundly for not getting in on that trade.

But you're so transparent...I can already see it now had Bergevin actually gotten off his *** and acquired Johansson.

You'd be sitting here saying

"OMG, he instead of re-signing Radulov...he goes out and trades 2 valuable draft picks for a player who isn't even better than Radulov"

Boy please

As I previously stated, it depends which direction you want to go.
If you're not going to bring in any center at all, then yes, absolutely sign Radu.
If you don't sign Radu, I assume it's because you are bringing someone at center. If you don't, then we are just back where we were last year, which is unacceptable.

All very consistent, try to follow.

So you've concluded that he's not going to bring in any center at all?

Cool...I don't care if Bergevin is the GM or freaking Mickey Mouse, the person holding that position needs to address the position ASAP.

Complaining? Here's another quote of mine:

Wow man, you totally got me brah!

Have no idea what the relevance of that quote is

I wonder what happened over that stretch that could have made me shift...geez...did we happen to sign a certain top 6 guy already?? Oh ya, that guy, what's his name...starts with Radu..
We also saw Lek and Byron turn into interesting wingers for us.
We had the top 6. After getting Radu, a much bigger need opened at center.

More deflecting lol

a few weeks ago when I suggested Lehkonen was ready to assume a bigger role in the top 6 if ever Radulov walked, you laughed at me...same when I suggested Byron scored 22 goals last year and there was no reason why he couldn't come close to those totals again, you once more, laughed at me.

Now all of a sudden, they're 'interesting wingers'

You really have no shame man lol none

I mean really, you obviously only care about trying to show off and win some type of internet battle, which you are failing at miserably btw because if you let your petty little guard down, this discussion would be much more appreciable and easy to follow for you.

I have no guard up, I assure you...don't get mad at me because you got exposed. You're talking so much sideways crap that you can't keep up. That's no my fault, come with better takes.

Yes, as our team stood with Radulov, Drouin did not fill a need. Our need was down the middle. One top center, or two top 6 centers, then one PMD. We did not need more wingers with Galch-Pac-Lek-Radu-Byron-Gallagher.

More nonsense...we did not need wingers, even if the winger we acquired is better than all but one of those names (Pacioretty) and an argument can be made that by the time this year is over, Drouin will be our best winger.

No of course not, we didn't need more offensive talent, we didn't need skill, speed, creativity.

Nope...everything you said Jonathan Drouin could bring to this team 18 months ago like "Joe Thornton like playmaking ability" or "the ability to create plays to help others score".

None of that mattered the second Bergevin acquired Drouin...the second Bergevin acquired Drouin, he turned into a freaking pumpkin.

Again...I pulled out your quotes on Drouin from 18 months ago, the quotes in which you say Bergervin would never have the stomach to trade for Drouin because he'd never pay a premium.

You want to act like your opinion changed on Drouin because the Habs signed Radulov for 1yr and added Lehkonen to the mix

You might have others fooled, perhaps even yourself...

Not me though...

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Euh...sure?..


I didn't put an asterisk, you did. He shouldn't have done nothing.
First off, he had 6 years to fix these issues.
Second, what people are saying is they rather he would have re-signed Radu and gone after a center.
Third, again, he had 6 years to address this.


NEWSFLASH: Priorities change.
If you are on your way to the ER because you need some stitches, on the way you get hit by a bus and now your tibia is sticking out, what do you think they will address first?
You're so damn hell bent on simply trying to be right and ridicule other posters that you can't even follow discussions.
Four years ago we had a function center in Plekanec, we had Galchenyuk as the newly drafted top center and we had Eller who, despite his limitations, still had shown steady progression. So 4 years ago, it made sense to be patient down the middle, but we needed to bulk up the wings. He failed to do it.
After last season, it became quite clear that our biggest issue was the center line.
So the priorities change.
What I love here though is you are bringing up things I was discussing a problem that took Bergevin 4 freaking years to finally address....4 years!!!
And you think this makes me look bad??



We could have had Johansson for couple draft picks and he missed out on that.
You kept talking about Duchene and Hanzal, nope, didn't get those guys either.



As I previously stated, it depends which direction you want to go.
If you're not going to bring in any center at all, then yes, absolutely sign Radu.
If you don't sign Radu, I assume it's because you are bringing someone at center. If you don't, then we are just back where we were last year, which is unacceptable.

All very consistent, try to follow.

Complaining? Here's another quote of mine:

Wow man, you totally got me brah!



I wonder what happened over that stretch that could have made me shift...geez...did we happen to sign a certain top 6 guy already?? Oh ya, that guy, what's his name...starts with Radu..
We also saw Lek and Byron turn into interesting wingers for us.
We had the top 6. After getting Radu, a much bigger need opened at center.
I mean really, you obviously only care about trying to show off and win some type of internet battle, which you are failing at miserably btw because if you let your petty little guard down, this discussion would be much more appreciable and easy to follow for you.


Yes, as our team stood with Radulov, Drouin did not fill a need. Our need was down the middle. One top center, or two top 6 centers, then one PMD. We did not need more wingers with Galch-Pac-Lek-Radu-Byron-Gallagher.

Very simple to get.

Let's not overlook the fact that we did not have Radulov as he was a UFA, there is no evidence that he was going to resign. Combine that with the fact that Drouin is a far more valuable asset and the deal makes perfect sense. There simply were not any centres available that were as valuable as Drouin even with him being a winger. IMO MB traded a grossly overrated prospect for a premier young talent. I believe he may very well have fleeced Yzerman and only a fool would not exchange an asset for a far more valuable asset irregardless of current perceived needs.

Imo he got max value+ for Sergachev and still has assets available to acquire a legitimate top of the lineup center provided that there is a deal to be made. The deal looks even better now that we know that Radulov gave no special preference to staying in Montreal. Drouin is likely an upgrade now and almost certainly in the future.

I don't really know who these top centers are that MB should have magically acquired are but there aren't any that were available that could even approach Drouin's upside.

 

[417]

Let's not overlook the fact that we did not have Radulov as he was a UFA, there is no evidence that he was going to resign. Combine that with the fact that Drouin is a far more valuable asset and the deal makes perfect sense. There simply were not any centres available that were as valuable as Drouin even with him being a winger. IMO MB traded a grossly overrated prospect for a premier young talent. I believe he may very well have fleeced Yzerman and only a fool would not exchange an asset for a far more valuable asset irregardless of current perceived needs.

You would think so but apparently not...apparently the more prudent approach would have been for Bergevin to sit on his hands waiting for the Pens to trade him Crosby or Malkin, or the Isles to trade him Tavares or the Oilers McDavid or Sabres Eichel or the Leafs Matthews.

Don't make a single move unless it's to acquire one of the top 5-7C's in the game

Imo he got max value+ for Sergachev and still has assets available to acquire a legitimate top of the lineup center provided that there is a deal to be made. The deal looks even better now that we know that Radulov gave no special preference to staying in Montreal. Drouin is likely an upgrade now and almost certainly in the future.

There are deals to be made...Ray Shero just completed a sweet deal to get a top 6C and all it cost him was a couple of draft picks.

That's the type of trade the Habs and Bergevin are going to have to create. I still don't get how he wasn't in on that, blows me away actually, but as long as he's GM, i'm going to continue to press for him to make that type of trade.

Not throw my hands up and whine all day that it's taken him 6yrs and he still hasn't acquired a top 6C.

I don't really know who these top centers are that MB should have magically acquired are but there aren't any that were available that could even approach Drouin's upside.

No one knows...its just been suggested they are.

 

[Kriss E]

Hold up...you're ACTUALLY arguing that he shouldn't of done anything??

From the same guy whose been more vocal than anyone about the GM doing NOTHING??

Good lord.

Hmm...Re-read what you bolded, take a breath, re-read a third time, maybe by then you will understand.

As for him having 6yrs to fix the issue?

What is your point here? Why do you keep giving me this timeline?

Think about it. You can figure it out.

Priorities change? LOL

our centers were bad 5yrs ago, they're worse now...the priority didn't change, just the level of urgency to fix it. Which he still can and it doesn't HAVE to be by using Sergachev either.

That's just a lazy argument you've put forth.

Not buying it.

Ray Shero just proved my point.

Plekanec back then was still a reliable two way center, and we had just drafted Galchenyuk to become our #1 center. We also had Eller and DD. So our situation at center was not as dire as it is today. People had to be patient to see how Galch would turn out.
Back then I was arguing for the need to bring in wingers so we can give Galch the proper guys to surround him with. They failed to do so, and as of today you can't even tell me for sure where Galch will play next year.
So ya, again, things change. Whether you don't like to admit it because it hurts your argument is completely irrelevant.

And ONCE AGAIN, i'll reiterate...i'm criticized him soundly for not getting in on that trade.

Cool.

So you've concluded that he's not going to bring in any center at all?

He hasn't as of today. If he does then we will discuss it.

More deflecting lol

a few weeks ago when I suggested Lehkonen was ready to assume a bigger role in the top 6 if ever Radulov walked, you laughed at me...same when I suggested Byron scored 22 goals last year and there was no reason why he couldn't come close to those totals again, you once more, laughed at me.

Now all of a sudden, they're 'interesting wingers'

You really have no shame man lol none

Everything I wrote now is with the idea that we would bring in a top center.
There's no deflection. As I said, it's been very consistent. You would notice it if you didn't want to simply have this petty pissing match.

I have no guard up, I assure you...don't get mad at me because you got exposed. You're talking so much sideways crap that you can't keep up. That's no my fault, come with better takes.

The only thing you exposed is your inability to follow reasoning.

More nonsense...we did not need wingers, even if the winger we acquired is better than all but one of those names (Pacioretty) and an argument can be made that by the time this year is over, Drouin will be our best winger.

No of course not, we didn't need more offensive talent, we didn't need skill, speed, creativity.

Nope...everything you said Jonathan Drouin could bring to this team 18 months ago like "Joe Thornton like playmaking ability" or "the ability to create plays to help others score".

None of that mattered the second Bergevin acquired Drouin...the second Bergevin acquired Drouin, he turned into a freaking pumpkin.

Again...I pulled out your quotes on Drouin from 18 months ago, the quotes in which you say Bergervin would never have the stomach to trade for Drouin because he'd never pay a premium.

Again, follow the discussion please. Why do you think I said this trade is good?

You want to act like your opinion changed on Drouin because the Habs signed Radulov for 1yr and added Lehkonen to the mix

You might have others fooled, perhaps even yourself...

Not me though...

My opinion on Drouin did not change. I still believe he is who I said he had the potential in being. I said our team's need changed. Adding Radu was a big reason for that, The huge hole at center on both the top line is another.

Have others fooled?..Lol..Dude, this is a message board. You take this wayyyyy too seriously.

 

[Kriss E]

Let's not overlook the fact that we did not have Radulov as he was a UFA, there is no evidence that he was going to resign. Combine that with the fact that Drouin is a far more valuable asset and the deal makes perfect sense. There simply were not any centres available that were as valuable as Drouin even with him being a winger. IMO MB traded a grossly overrated prospect for a premier young talent. I believe he may very well have fleeced Yzerman and only a fool would not exchange an asset for a far more valuable asset irregardless of current perceived needs.

Here:

The trade in and of itself is good

Imo he got max value+ for Sergachev and still has assets available to acquire a legitimate top of the lineup center provided that there is a deal to be made. The deal looks even better now that we know that Radulov gave no special preference to staying in Montreal. Drouin is likely an upgrade now and almost certainly in the future.

Well that remains to be seen, but we will find out.

I don't really know who these top centers are that MB should have magically acquired are but there aren't any that were available that could even approach Drouin's upside.

We didn't need to sign or trade for a center of Drouin's upside. Our situation is so dire than just a decent top 6 center is a big upgrade.

 

[417]

Hmm...Re-read what you bolded, take a breath, re-read a third time, maybe by then you will understand.


Think about it. You can figure it out.



Plekanec back then was still a reliable two way center, and we had just drafted Galchenyuk to become our #1 center. We also had Eller and DD. So our situation at center was not as dire as it is today. People had to be patient to see how Galch would turn out.
Back then I was arguing for the need to bring in wingers so we can give Galch the proper guys to surround him with. They failed to do so, and as of today you can't even tell me for sure where Galch will play next year.
So ya, again, things change. Whether you don't like to admit it because it hurts your argument is completely irrelevant.


Cool.

He hasn't as of today. If he does then we will discuss it.


Everything I wrote now is with the idea that we would bring in a top center.
There's no deflection. As I said, it's been very consistent. You would notice it if you didn't want to simply have this petty pissing match.


The only thing you exposed is your inability to follow reasoning.

Again, follow the discussion please. Why do you think I said this trade is good?



My opinion on Drouin did not change. I still believe he is who I said he had the potential in being. I said our team's need changed. Adding Radu was a big reason for that, The huge hole at center on both the top line is another.

Have others fooled?..Lol..Dude, this is a message board. You take this wayyyyy too seriously.

Your opinion on Drouin didn't change huh?

Today you're arguing

"He doesn't fill a need"

January 2016, you argued in favor of trading for Drouin because

"He has Joe Thornton-like playmaking abilities, he makes others around him better, he can create plays for himself and others, no one on our team can dangle the puck like he can"

Yeah sure...your opinion didn't change at all.

 

[habalifeok]

The Habs have placed a heavy emphasis on using first round draft picks to draft defensemen and Price over the last 12=15 years,in the process bypassing the opportunity to draft scoring forwards.
The habs biggest problem is scoring goals.
They scored by drafting Galchenyuk and scored again by trading another defenseman for a 3rd overall pick, scoring forward Jonathan Drouin.

 

[Jaynki]

That thing about the center is so blown out of proportion. Of course we could use an Elite C, i understand why it's ''the most important'' position. Let's just not overrate it. The important is talent.

If our RW depth would be Gallagher, Hemsky, McCarron, Flynn. It would suck even more than our C line right now but people would not make a big deal out of this simply because it's the W and not the C. But at the end of the day, talent is important.

Talent matters. Talent is the key. And Jonathan Drouin have a ****ing lot of this. He's actually the most talentuous player that has been traded this summer after Panarin. And people complain simply because he is not a C, that is ridiculous.

I bet Lars Eller would be a productive player if he would be centering Taylor Hall and Patrick Kane.

Fortunately for us, trading Sergachev for Jonathan Drouin brings us elite talent and a franchise player, could not care less about the position. He's our best player right now after Price.

 

[417]

We didn't need to sign or trade for a center of Drouin's upside. Our situation is so dire than just a decent top 6 center is a big upgrade.

Odd how when I argued this in the offseason thread...you shredded me for it.

 

[junyab]

The trade in and of itself is good, most have already said so. What some have issue with is the fact it didn't fill any need for us.

That notion is asinine. We need 1) a #1 centre, 2) more offense, 3) a LHD...in that order...Drouin helps out with 2. Unfortunately, it's now to replace the offense of Radulov, instead of adding to it.

 

[Scriptor]

Let's not overlook the fact that we did not have Radulov as he was a UFA, there is no evidence that he was going to resign. Combine that with the fact that Drouin is a far more valuable asset and the deal makes perfect sense. There simply were not any centres available that were as valuable as Drouin even with him being a winger. IMO MB traded a grossly overrated prospect for a premier young talent. I believe he may very well have fleeced Yzerman and only a fool would not exchange an asset for a far more valuable asset irregardless of current perceived needs.

Imo he got max value+ for Sergachev and still has assets available to acquire a legitimate top of the lineup center provided that there is a deal to be made. The deal looks even better now that we know that Radulov gave no special preference to staying in Montreal. Drouin is likely an upgrade now and almost certainly in the future.

I don't really know who these top centers are that MB should have magically acquired are but there aren't any that were available that could even approach Drouin's upside.

Barring any proof that an equivalent C talent to Drouin was available for strictly Sergachev and a potential 2nd rounder for a 5th roundr swap, I absolutely have to agree. bergevin,s ability to profit from Yzerman's Cap woes was an excellent display of GM skills.

It also provides some hope that he can make another smart deal to acquire a talented C from a Cap-strapped team fro less than he might otherwise have needed to pay; i.e., Gallagher for RNH or some such deal might prove possible because the other team is in dire need of shedding a 6M salary when they have two top-notch (although very expensive) Cs ahead of RNH on the team's C depth chart.

It's not much different than PITT being guaranteed to lose Jordan Staal at some point way back when...

As for the extended argument going on in this thread, there are countless examples of posters who complain at anything and everything Habs related and will switch their stance any chance they get to ultimately be right for the sake of being right and nothing more. It's tiresome and, at best, sophomoric.

Bergevin isn't perfect and no GM magically makes every move their team needs simultaneously. Not having landed a top-6 C yet is far from proof that Bergevin has completely given up on that team need.

Signing depth players to petty cash contracts (for Molson and his ownership group) -- in the meantime, while he still attempts to strike a bigger deal -- is not an example of Bergevin thinking that those deals are more important than landing a top-6 C. It just shows that it is more difficult to strike an advantageous (or, even, fair) deal for such player and, also, that Habs management can continue to handle day-to-day improvements rather than be paralyzed as they wait for such a deal.

It's much too easy to micro-analyze every move without considering that there might be a larger context. *****ing is the easiest art form available to mankind. I say art-form because it is often played out on a fantasy medium.

Resume...

 

[Habs Icing]

Fortunately for us, trading Sergachev for Jonathan Drouin brings us elite talent and a franchise player, could not care less about the position. He's our best player right now after Price.

Man oh man talking about exaggeration. A franchise player! Really? He's not even the best, second, third, fourth or even fifth best player out of his draft year. His numbers are on par with Max Domi who doesn't have the attitude problem. I guess Domi is a franchise player too.

Drouin is a good player. A very good player. But franchise? I guess he's a franchise player like PK is a generational talent.

 

[Jaynki]

[/B]

Barring any proof that an equivalent C talent to Drouin was available for strictly Sergachev and a potential 2nd rounder for a 5th roundr swap, I absolutely have to agree. bergevin,s ability to profit from Yzerman's Cap woes was an excellent display of GM skills.

It also provides some hope that he can make another smart deal to acquire a talented C from a Cap-strapped team fro less than he might otherwise have needed to pay; i.e., Gallagher for RNH or some such deal might prove possible because the other team is in dire need of shedding a 6M salary when they have two top-notch (although very expensive) Cs ahead of RNH on the team's C depth chart.

As for the extended argument going on in this thread, there are countless examples of posters who complain at anything and everything Habs related and will switch their stance any chance they get to ultimately be right for the sake of being right and nothing more. It's tiresome and, at best, sophomoric.

Bergevin isn't perfect and no GM magically makes every move their team needs simultaneously. Not having landed a top-6 C yet is far from proof that Bergevin has completely given up on that team need.

Signing depth players to petty cash contracts (for Molson and his ownership group) -- in the meantime, while he still attempts to strike a bigger deal -- is not an example of Bergevin thinking that those deals are more important than landing a top-6 C. It just shows that it is more difficult to strike an advantageous (or, even, fair) deal for such player and, also, that Habs management can continue to handle day-to-day improvements rather than be paralyzed as they wait for such a deal.

It's much too easy to micro-analyze every move without considering that there might be a larger context. *****ing is the easiest art form available to mankind. I say art-form because it is often played out on a fantasy medium.

Resume...

Yeah. Finally, i agree with someone on this board. Yeah.

 

[Jaynki]

Man oh man talking about exaggeration. A franchise player! Really? He's not even the best, second, third, fourth or even fifth best player out of his draft year. His numbers are on par with Max Domi who doesn't have the attitude problem. I guess Domi is a franchise player too.

Drouin is a good player. A very good player. But franchise? I guess he's a franchise player like PK is a generational talent.

Watch him play. Talk to me later this year. He is by far the best skater in our line-up.

 

[Kriss E]

Odd how when I argued this in the offseason thread...you shredded me for it.

Yes, silly of me to still had hoped this GM would get us significant help at center.
I find myself regressing my standards to just a decent top 6 center.
That's how low this GM has gone.

 

[Habs Icing]

Watch him play. Talk to me later this year. He is by far the best skater in our line-up.

Oh so we went from a franchise player to the best skater on this team. Okay.