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Confirmed with Link: [MTL/TB] Sergachev/Drouin II

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Habs Icing said:
It took time for me to ***** this trade and I'm still up in the air. To evaluate this trade we have to see what comes next.

1) The trade added another player on the expansion list to protect. That means unless we make another trade today we will leave a more talented player unprotected. If that's the case then that player needs to be added to the trade. Let's say MB trades Galchenyuk for Brodin then we lose Beaulieu in expansion draft.

2)With the Galchenyuk for Brodin trade or another similar one has this team really improved. We traded Galchenyuk & Sergachev for Drouin & Brodin. Throw in Beaulieu and I see a lowering of our assets' value.

3) If Radulov is not signed then we're not better than last year's team.

4) Our top prospect has been traded and we still don't have a #1 or #2 center. Drouin is not a center and the Habs are shy about using Galchenyuk as one.

Although I was slightly happy about the trade yesterday, I still haven't made up my mind. I think this trade depends on what happens going forward. Gaining Drouin and losing Galchenyuk may be a lateral move. Then losing Radulov because we have JD doesn't make us better. We still haven't acquired our biggest needs: 2 top six centers.

So in a long-winded way I'm saying I'll wait before I pass judgment on this trade.
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Intelligent post. Calls for an intelligent reply.

1) The aftermath of this trade might just be that we don't protect Andrew Shaw anymore. I don't have anything against Shaw, but he doesn't exactly represent the best bang for the buck, and since he's signed long term, with his presumed replacement being, in all likelihood, cheaper, that would free up some caproom, should he be claimed. Besides, with Lehkonen AND Byron being able to play on the right side, it gives an option, should Hudon get a serious try (on LW). I don't think there's room anymore for Shaw if Galchenyuk remains a Hab and isn't played at C (because he'd then be used on RW, and a Top-9 right side of Radulov (should he stay here), Galchenyuk and Gallagher is, frankly, a bit of an overkill to begin with.

2) Galchenyuk for Brodin... I can't tell if that would improve the team without the subsequent move. One thing is sure though : it puts every other LD in a more appropriate roster spot (Markov with Petry on the 2nd pair, whoever of Beaulieu and Emelin on the 3rd).

3) Absolutely. Somebody not named Drouin would probably replace Radulov though, even if I would expect that player to be slightly worse.

4) Biggest issue, probably. Sergachev didn't play like a guy who was ready to take serious NHL minutes, but there's no doubt he could've been used to get THAT Center. Still, that Center would probably have been a lesser player than Drouin, since TB had just too many reasons to trade Drouin.
 
I don't understand the dislike people have with this trade.

That being said, I was also very high on Sergachev like most on here. He has potential to be a star D man in the league, that is for sure. But at the same time, I watched him a lot in the mem cup and although he did have flashes of greatness, he also at times looked very sloppy in his own end to me, and was losing board battles more than he should.

I am not bashing him in any way, he will probably turn out to be a great NHL D man and have a good career.

But right now, we have a window to win, which IMO is 2-3 years (with Price and Weber). We are adding a PROVEN talent, which can impact our lineup right now. We are trading away a prospect with a lot of upside, but is UNPROVEN at the nhl level. There is no way this isn't a win for this team in the present.

We still have time and cap space to add, if we get Rads signed, we could have a very deadly offense this year, one that could rival almost any team.
 
thedunceofhockey said:
The question was who is faster, i'm just telling you who is straight out faster. But, JD is an amazing stick handler and his over speed is something to be amazed with.
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I'd be curious to see. I think it's closer than most would think. Byron may be very slightly faster going straight but Drouin is likely quicker overall.
 
budro16 said:
I don't understand the dislike people have with this trade.

That being said, I was also very high on Sergachev like most on here. He has potential to be a star D man in the league, that is for sure. But at the same time, I watched him a lot in the mem cup and although he did have flashes of greatness, he also at times looked very sloppy in his own end to me, and was losing board battles more than he should.

I am not bashing him in any way, he will probably turn out to be a great NHL D man and have a good career.

But right now, we have a window to win, which IMO is 2-3 years (with Price and Weber). We are adding a PROVEN talent, which can impact our lineup right now. We are trading away a prospect with a lot of upside, but is UNPROVEN at the nhl level. There is no way this isn't a win for this team in the present.

We still have time and cap space to add, if we get Rads signed, we could have a very deadly offense this year, one that could rival almost any team.
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You can sup up your car as much as you like, but if your engine is garbage, you ain't going anywhere. We still don't don't have the most important thing that is needed to win - a bonafide #1 impact centreman. And no one can convince me Drouin can play center. Typical Bergevin move - getting great complimentary pieces, but never the building block.
 
thedunceofhockey said:
The question was who is faster, i'm just telling you who is straight out faster. But, JD is an amazing stick handler and his over speed is something to be amazed with.
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You're probably right.....straight out, Byron probably beats him by a hair, I was thinking a tie but who knows, they'll have to duke it out at training camp to see who gets dibs on that claim :)
 
DangerDave said:
He did the speed thing at the ASG and got 13.103 making him the fastest skater in 2015. To put it into perspective, McDavid won last year and did it in 13.020. Larkin won the year before with 12.894 which is the fastest all time. A guy like Duchene who is known as being fast will do around 14 seconds. Drouin is very much one of the fastest players in the entire league. Probably not far off Byron.
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As we all know, the Larkin time doesn't really count.
 
WeThreeKings said:
Lol of course I'm happy getting Drouin for a prospect that I felt had suspect IQ covering the cycle in his own end.

I just think it's incredibly ignorant that the GM hands long term contracts like candy to players before it's prudent to do so but in the situation where it was, he failed.

I'm a Mooseheads fan. I watched Drouin excel for three playoffs. But that being said there's no way of knowing how he handles being the hopes of the most ridiculous portion of this fan base. If he falters completely, that contract will suck any value out of the deal.
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Soooooo.....bridge deal would've been the smart way to go about this?
 
DangerDave said:
He won the speed contest 2 years ago.
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Whoop-dee-doo. The best players make the all-star game, not necessarily the fastest. Bet guys like Helm or Hagelin would have posted better times if they were all-stars. But I never called him slow. We're comparing him to Byron, who is noticeably faster in a straight line and up closer to Hagelin's territory.
 
MXD said:
1) The aftermath of this trade might just be that we don't protect Andrew Shaw anymore. I don't have anything against Shaw, but he doesn't exactly represent the best bang for the buck, and since he's signed long term, with his presumed replacement being, in all likelihood, cheaper, that would free up some caproom, should he be claimed. Besides, with Lehkonen AND Byron being able to play on the right side, it gives an option, should Hudon get a serious try (on LW). I don't think there's room anymore for Shaw if Galchenyuk remains a Hab and isn't played at C (because he'd then be used on RW, and a Top-9 right side of Radulov (should he stay here), Galchenyuk and Gallagher is, frankly, a bit of an overkill to begin with.
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I too have wondered if this could be a solution. One thing is certain, it would show MB as being truly "team first" as he is forever reminding us. Having just spent (wasted) 2 seconds on a player & then exposing him? Yes that would say a lot!
 
EXPOS123 said:
You can sup up your car as much as you like, but if your engine is garbage, you ain't going anywhere. We still don't don't have the most important thing that is needed to win - a bonafide #1 impact centreman. And no one can convince me Drouin can play center. Typical Bergevin move - getting great complimentary pieces, but never the building block.
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I'm not even sure a Sergachev for Schenn swap would've worked, and we're not even getting to bonafide #1 impact centerman territory.
 
BJCOLLINS said:
I too have wondered if this could be a solution. One thing is certain, it would show MB as being truly "team first" as he is forever reminding us. Having just spent (wasted) 2 seconds on a player & then exposing him? Yes that would say a lot!
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Shaw is getting protected. That's not even up for debate...and rightfully so!
 
WeThreeKings said:
I'm a Mooseheads fan. I watched Drouin excel for three playoffs. But that being said there's no way of knowing how he handles being the hopes of the most ridiculous portion of this fan base. If he falters completely, that contract will suck any value out of the deal.
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...I don't know, but if Drouin fails to live up to ridiculous hopes, that's an issue of ridiculous hopes to begin with and not of Drouin.

Besides I don't quite know what would be ridiculous hopes.
 
MXD said:
Intelligent post. Calls for an intelligent reply.

1) The aftermath of this trade might just be that we don't protect Andrew Shaw anymore. I don't have anything against Shaw, but he doesn't exactly represent the best bang for the buck, and since he's signed long term, with his presumed replacement being, in all likelihood, cheaper, that would free up some caproom, should he be claimed. Besides, with Lehkonen AND Byron being able to play on the right side, it gives an option, should Hudon get a serious try (on LW). I don't think there's room anymore for Shaw if Galchenyuk remains a Hab and isn't played at C (because he'd then be used on RW, and a Top-9 right side of Radulov (should he stay here), Galchenyuk and Gallagher is, frankly, a bit of an overkill to begin with.

2) Galchenyuk for Brodin... I can't tell if that would improve the team without the subsequent move. One thing is sure though : it puts every other LD in a more appropriate roster spot (Markov with Petry on the 2nd pair, whoever of Beaulieu and Emelin on the 3rd).

3) Absolutely. Somebody not named Drouin would probably replace Radulov though, even if I would expect that player to be slightly worse.

4) Biggest issue, probably. Sergachev didn't play like a guy who was ready to take serious NHL minutes, but there's no doubt he could've been used to get THAT Center. Still, that Center would probably have been a lesser player than Drouin, since TB had just too many reasons to trade Drouin.
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Thanks for your reply.

Basically, my concerns are: asset management and improvement of the team.

We paid two 2nd round picks for Shaw. Throwing him away for nothing strikes me as wasteful. But let's say there really is no room for Shaw then Drouin's cost is not just Sergachev. It's Sergachev and Shaw (or two 2nd picks). If we hadn't made this trade we would lose a Mitchell or a Davidson in the expansion draft. Regardless of fans' opinions Shaw is a more valuable asset than Mitchell or Davidson or anyone else we would have lost. That doesn't mean we needed to keep Shaw but we could have used him to add value to another trade package.

That's why I say I want to see what happens next. Has MB come to an understanding with McPhee and has protected himself in the back end?I hope so. Also he needs to resolve the Radulov spot. Either sign him or get another player to fill in for him. We still don't have any centers in the top six worth anything.

The MB detractors (i.e. Kriss, W7, Lafleur's Guy and WTK) have accused MB of lacking vision. And I think what happens between now and the end of the off season will definitely show whether they're right or wrong in their assessment. To be honest, I have a nagging suspicion they may be proven right in the next couple of months.

If MB does little or nothing else to address this team's serious issues than I have to agree with MB's detractors. My gut feeling - and I hope I'm dead wrong - is that MB is pulling a smoke and mirror act to distract us from this team's problems with the Drouin trade.
 
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jaffy27 said:
Soooooo.....bridge deal would've been the smart way to go about this?
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It's not a bridge deal if you're not the one bridging him from the entry level.

I would have had him on a one year contract and negotiated starting in January for an extension based on the actual play for this team.

Emelin, extended before he came back from his knee injury.
Shawful given an even more Shawful contract before he played for the Habs.

Shawful looked like a decent player for the Hawks, well he sucks when not surrounded by one of the best cores in the league. Now it's a toxic contract that legitimately hamstrings this team. Even more so with Drouin signed.
 
WeThreeKings said:
Lol of course I'm happy getting Drouin for a prospect that I felt had suspect IQ covering the cycle in his own end.

I just think it's incredibly ignorant that the GM hands long term contracts like candy to players before it's prudent to do so but in the situation where it was, he failed.

I'm a Mooseheads fan. I watched Drouin excel for three playoffs. But that being said there's no way of knowing how he handles being the hopes of the most ridiculous portion of this fan base. If he falters completely, that contract will suck any value out of the deal.
Click to expand...

It's time to let it go man
 
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