Confirmed Trade: [MTL/NSH] PK Subban for Shea Weber - Pt. 2

[Hutz]

Sooo... am I the only one who is baffled by this?

 

[we like our team*]

 

[herzausstein]

Which of course explains, you know, why PK was four spots behind Weber in Norris voting.

I always thought the Norris went to the best defenceman. Apparently is does not.

PK has won a norris has he not? Weber hasn't..... so... there's that.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Subban was moved because he was bigger than the team and they didn't like it.

This was a purely ego-driven move and those NEVER work out well.

 

[Reverie]

The second part was More of a general feeling from the thread. I shouldn't have quoted you on that.

The team canada part is legit though. Some excellent hockey people disagree with you.

I like PK and wish him well, but for now, the habs have the better player. Over time, PK should be better.

I don't think the "but Weber is on team Canada and Subban isn't" part is very legit.

By that logic Marc-Edouard Vlasic is better than Subban.

 

[34]

Montreal wanted Subban out. No question about it. That was a contract dump.

 

[Ducks in a row]

 

[PavelBrendl]

Man, I'm going to miss Subban. I'll miss the rushes, charisma and showmanship he brings, but I definitely won't miss the diving, slewfooting and other bone-headed plays.

Even though I don't like the trade at face value, I think Weber will be good for the Habs. He might not be in his prime anymore, but he's a still a top defenceman in the league, a leader and big SOB with a mean streak and a cannon shot. I'm shocked, but probably not as outraged as some Habs fans.

 

[HOPE]

Montreal wanted Subban out. No question about it. That was a contract dump.

not a contract dump when you take an has heavy one...

 

[2CHAINZ]

Mtl fans right now

 

[Garry Valk]

Which of course explains, you know, why PK was four spots behind Weber in Norris voting.

I always thought the Norris went to the best defenceman. Apparently is does not.

It does, hence Subban winning one to Weber's none. That honestly might be the worst argument I've ever seen in HFB.

 

[cafelatte]

Lovely...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/p-k-subban-trade-may-worst-canadiens-history/

love those stats ... you can use them however you want ...

how about ... blocked shots? power play goals? hits? turnovers?

 

[GardinerExpressway]

"damn those are some awful trades" - Jim Benning

A worthy post for your 2000th.

 

[StittsvilleJames]

The best part of this trade is clearly that us Sens fans can now admit that PK is pretty good, but now we have to admit also that Weber has always been overrated.

On a serious note, I don't like facing Weber so much more each season for the next few years, but on the bright side we won't have to deal with PK vs EK thing 6 time a year for the next decade.

 

[HOPE]

love those stats ... you can use them however you want ...

how about ... blocked shots? power play goals? hits? turnovers?

heres your block shot sir.

 

[Not Sure]

PK has won a norris has he not? Weber hasn't..... so... there's that.

PK won half a Norris, he's a good to great defenseman and so is Weber, the problems will come up later if Weber start failing early when he still has the bulk of those 10 years to make up, or if PK goes into Nashville and becomes a perfect teammate while still having plenty of prime years ahead of him.

I wonder if this move was pushed by PK due to all the rumored at the draft. MB should have come out and had his players back much more then he did, not some comment about people calling so he has to listen, but an emphatic "PK is Montreal's #1 defenseman now and in the future, we will not be trading him I don't care how many people ask." Subban seems like the type of player who needs to know his team will be behind him 100% and any small amount of doubt could quickly sour that relationship. I'm just glad he won't be in the East anymore, the guy may have been a problem for some, but he definitely is the guy you want on the ice in the last 2 mins, whether playing down or with a lead, and that's just invaluable.

 

[NobleSix]

Subban was moved because he was bigger than the team and they didn't like it.

Yep. Subban wasn't liked by the team's captain, a contingent of other players on the team, and the coach. He clashed with Therrien and Bergevin in the media many times throughout the year, and seemed to be more concerned with building his brand and being a philanthropist rather than a team player. Obviously MB and the Canadiens didn't like this. It was clear that he was going to be traded around the end of the season, at least for me. Tony Marinaro was alluding to it for months, and he has tons of sources in Montreal and within the Org/Alumni.

Don't believe anything Bergevin says. He is a notorious... "bender of the truth". He was looking to move Subban for months. This trade has NOTHING to do with on ice stuff. PK was traded because he wasn't liked due to his personality.

The Habs traded an amazing player regardless of off ice issues.

 

[JS19]

Still baffling why Bergevin even decided to trade him. Subban has more prime years in the tank compared to Weber, who's now approaching the other side of 30. The only conclusion I can come to is that Bergevin disliked that Subban was a charismatic figure who became the face of the franchise. I don't buy that nonsense about him being a cancer, it's typical of French media to paint the black guy as the **** disturber.

Poile should be charged with highway robbery. He got prime years out of Weber, and traded him for a much younger asset. Huge deal by Bergevin, and dumb deal by Bergevin.

 

[Intangir]

I've always really liked Weber's game and believe he's been the single most consistent d-man in the league for the last five years slightly ahead of Duncan Keith, which is a huge plus for him. Weber has unfortunately never won any hardware as a defenseman, but in terms of abilities on the ice, despite being a vastly different player than Subban and having different strengths, I believe they are both of roughly equal quality.

I also believe that, as of now, with the makeup of our team as it is, Weber's more defense-oriented game MIGHT be a better fit considering our emphasis on team-defense and dump-and-chase philosophy.

Staying as objective as possible, I can reasonably fathom Weber having a bigger positive impact on our team for the next 4 to 5 years if he doesn't regress, which might have been our GM's aim in this trade (as well as accomodating Subban's wishes maybe).

My only immediate concern with Weber pertains to how / if he will embrace the city and our team and play up to his own very high standard. I worry a bit about how he might react to having been traded to our hockey-mad, rabid, media-driven pressure-cooker of a city. Nevertheless, with what I've seen of him on the ice and in his interviews as well as from the professionalism he seems to exude, he should fine.

HOWEVER, trading a guy of Subban's stature, a true franchise defenseman, for an older guy is really, really, really not the smart thing to do in spite of a potential better fit. In Subban's case, I can reasonably see another 8-10 years of very high-level play while in Weber's case I believe it is closer to 5 or 6, making for a difference of about 4 years.

Let's face it, as far as top-level franchise defensemen go, the single most important thing teams should keep in mind is their age and the time they've got left to play as their impact on the ice is so great and far-ranging that their very presence opens or closes a cup window (just ask Edmonton fans about the importance of top-end defensemen).

As such, that aforementioned difference in projected longevity makes this trade very bad for the Canadiens, even with a possible better fit of Weber on our team.

Anyways, good or bad, I accept reality and make peace with this trade which brought a defensive stud into our lineup at the expense of another. In the end, I look to next season with an open heart ready to welcome Weber into the fold and, like with Subban, cheer for him and the team like mad.

 

[FROMSHORETOCHARA]

Hey sorry if this was posted already. Tony Marinaro said some interesting things on the radio about PK. If true, it seems he was a cancer and major distraction in the dressing room and the habs covered up the incidents to avoid harming his trade

Teams that make lousy trades always use local media to smear the guy, it's dishonest but effective, some people are quick to buy the propoganda. Believe me I know, I'm from Boston.

We traded a Franchise center seguin for Loui plus. A joke of a trade. But once Bruins started leaking out stuff like seguin liked girls, drank beer, and loved to party you wouldn't believe the number of dummies that were like, yeah great trade. Of course it never dawned on the dummies that 98% of players love girls, drink beer, and love to party.

Montreal got fleeced. Frankly a ridiculous trade. Subban to Nashville good for preds and also for hockey in the south, pk a good ambassador.

I liked Chiarelli in Boston, frankly far from perfect but toe Blake compared to Neely and Sweeney. Or so I thought. What a terrible trade for oilers. Terrible.

New Jersey and Nashville huge winners today. Huge.

 

[cafelatte]

I can't really see how Montreal supposedly have a window now and for the next few years, as some claim. The way I saw it they could open a window if they could improve at forward at the same as Subban and Price were great. Now they are in more of a hurry to improve at forward while Weber is still good.

Subban must have really rubbed Bergevin the wrong way.

what a lot of people on this board tend to forget is that this is the type deal that needed to be cleared with the owner (Geoff Molson) so quit saying it was called by Bergevin alone ... evidently PK was a cancer in the locker room

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned already but that re-capture for Nashville if Weber retires early. Huge of Weber's but that contract and I am not sorry Subban is out of the Eastern Conference.

 

[cafelatte]

I liked Chiarelli in Boston, frankly far from perfect .

well I am not enticed to rely on your judgment ... Chiarelli is the one that traded Seguin to Dallas ... ouch ...

 

[JS19]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned already but that re-capture for Nashville if Weber retires early. Huge of Weber's but that contract and I am not sorry Subban is out of the Eastern Conference.

To be fair, Nashville didn't construct that contract. It was the Flyers GM Holmgren who offer-sheeted.

 

[Opeth]

Shea Weber is not chop liver. I think Hab fans have a tendency to over-evaluate their players, like most markets do. Most general managers do not think Subban is a top 15 defenceman in the league and they would take Weber over him. Ask Babcock who he prefers. Subban is great, don't get me wrong, but Shea Weber is nothing to sneeze at and will mentor all the upcoming D for years to come. Right now, the Habs are better with Weber than Subban. But, they must absolutely win the cup in the next two years before Price's contract is up or this might come back to haunt them....