Confirmed Trade: [MTL/NSH] PK Subban for Shea Weber - Pt. 2

[Just Rude]

Agreed. I think Josi over took Weber as the best Dman on our team during the 2014-2015 season and was consistently better in 2015-2016. Both top 15 Dmen, but Josi is top 5-10 and Weber is top 10-15.

Exactly. The point I was arguing isn't who is the better defenceman right now, but whether or not Josi "carried" Weber.

He didn't.

 

[HydroF]

This trade just tells me they couldn't work a deal they liked around Subban for, probably, offense.

Montreal most certainly did not just acquire a better player who also costs less and doesn't have a NTC. Weber is on the decline, this is Nashville trying to capitalize on THEIR window and extend it, by spending the extra money, and dealing with the NTC to get the better, and younger player.

Montreal running out of time to make a deal around Subban took a guy of similar skill that didn't have a NTC so they can keep their options open to keep working deals. Save a little money as well.

 

[Strexvale]

Did anyone check the wiki lately for Marc Bergevin?

 

[MikeK]

Lovely...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/p-k-subban-trade-may-worst-canadiens-history/

He's the better Dmen without Question. Some people thinks that's like saying Weber is garbage. It is not. It's just that P.K. is the better Dmen. And it only gets worse for MTL with each passing year.

 

[Byrddog]

When I watched the Preds games, most of the time it was Josi who carried the puck to the other team zone. Weber simply gave Josi the puck and watched him go.

Weber has never been a puck carrying guy. Suter did that for him and then Josi. When Josi went down three years ago with a concussion and Jones had to fill in it really exposed Webers weakness. During that period everyone chalked it up to him covering for Jones and that was part of it. But Weber needs that puck carrying guy to do what he does. The Habs may struggle with this at first but Shea will be ok unless he starts to take games off like he did here then the Habs fans and the media will eat his ass alive.

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

The second part was More of a general feeling from the thread. I shouldn't have quoted you on that.

The team canada part is legit though. Some excellent hockey people disagree with you.

I like PK and wish him well, but for now, the habs have the better player. Over time, PK should be better.

You're right. Some excellent hockey people disagree with me. I'm sure many other excellent hockey people disagree with you. Is the world cup roster selection our sole criteria for deciding who's the player with more value? So Jeff Carter has better value than Taylor Hall? That's what excellent hockey people think, after all.

But you're almost agreeing with me anyways. You think PK should be better over time. I think he's better now, but it's moot since the Habs aren't ready to compete and Weber is already trending downwards. So to me this is still a trade that makes little sense.

 

[dukeofjive]

Did anyone check the wiki lately for Marc Bergevin?

Thats awesome thanks for sharing

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

This is a great trade for Montreal.

Weber is a slight upgrade on the ice and a humongous upgrade in the locker room.

This changes all the team dynamic. The Habs should be much more mentally resilient next season, deal with less distractions.

I suspect Pacioretty will benefir greatly as well and bounce back from a subpar season, so the Habs indirectly gain forward scoring.

*Of course* Subban is three years younger. No GM in this league would have traded Weber for Subban if they were the same age. You don't downgrade talent/attitude unless you upgrade terms/finances.

Subban is an amazing talent and he can learn a lot from this and figure some things out to become a better player, instead of focusing on being a popular one and ridiculously refering to himself as "a brand".

 

[Just Rude]

When I watched the Preds games, most of the time it was Josi who carried the puck to the other team zone. Weber simply gave Josi the puck and watched him go.

And yet Weber was 10th in Norris voting (granted, Josi was 5th).

Guess those voting thought Weber, um, watched really well.

Ridiculous.

 

[SlapJack]

Poor Weber. After suffering for years on a team that had good goaltending but mediocre forwards, Nashville finally adds some solid talent up front...and he gets traded to a team with the exact same problem. And he doesn't have Suter or Josi talents to partner with either.

From a Sens perspective, I don't like the trade since this just means more Weber blasts crippling their penalty killers.

What a weird and unpredictable trade this was.

 

[pucky]

Weber is much better than Subban is at this point in time. He's not as flashy so obviously a lot of HF posters will conclude he's not as good but that's life on HF where style >>> substance.

Montréal is going to be much better in the short term.

Finally, a reasonable post. I don't think there's a player on this site that is more overrated than Subban. He has a good slap shot but is way overrated, defensively. Weber will be better in that dept. There is probably a lot to the rumours regarding Subban's rep in the dressing room - that Habs fans don't want to accept.

 

[Hatter]

i love the trade as a habs fan but i will subban it makes me cry subban is the kind of player who is so lovely he is like a nba player the guy is a show mannnnn

^^
The best post I've ever read on hfboards

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

IMO one of our biggest issues in the playoffs was that teams figured out Weber couldn't carry the puck at all and started essentially double-covering Josi to force Weber to skate it up with disastrous results. Won't be the case with PK. Even if we split them up, all four of our guys can carry the puck now.

Our PP strategy will have to chance completely, our top unit fed him the puck for a one-timer every time they touched the puck.

 

[Mitchy]

Feel good and bad for Subban.

Good because he goes to a better team and somewhere where hopefully management will appreciate him more.

Bad because IIRC, he was a big Habs' fan growing up. Sad to see what happened to him in Montreal.

 

[SabresSharks]

Josi carried Weber? Really?

That must be one big typo. If not, I can say I've heard it all.

Carried might be stretching the point, but it's clear the Preds valued Josi more. Their HF board consensus was the same.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

He's the better Dmen without Question. Some people thinks that's like saying Weber is garbage. It is not. It's just that P.K. is the better Dmen. And it only gets worse for MTL with each passing year.

To be fair, most posts blasting this trade are "trashing" Weber in reference to the trade itself. When I say this is an awful trade, that isn't to say Weber's bad, but the trade is.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

Weber is much better than Subban is at this point in time. He's not as flashy so obviously a lot of HF posters will conclude he's not as good but that's life on HF where style >>> substance.

Montréal is going to be much better in the short term.

Subban's underlying numbers are far better. I would argue he has the substance and Weber (hardest shot in the league) has the style.

 

[Byrddog]

Josi is amazing and will be for years to come. I am not suggesting Weber had a better season.

My point is Josi did not carry Weber. And yes, I have watched a lot of Preds games.

The way most people place value on dmen is point production especially here in Nashville and Josi has always been overlooked when he was at least as good as Shea. The thing is they complimented each other kinda like Forrest Gumps peas and carrots. Same thing with Suter when he was here. Suter is less without Weber but I think Josi will not miss a beat. It will be an adjustment for sure. Yes until today Josi was my favorite player on the team but now im torn.

 

[Just Rude]

He's the better Dmen without Question.

Which of course explains, you know, why PK was four spots behind Weber in Norris voting.

I always thought the Norris went to the best defenceman. Apparently is does not.

 

[Just Rude]

Carried might be stretching the point, but it's clear the Preds valued Josi more. Their HF board consensus was the same.

Agreed.

 

[MikeK]

To be fair, most posts blasting this trade are "trashing" Weber in reference to the trade itself. When I say this is an awful trade, that isn't to say Weber's bad, but the trade is.

Same here. I do believe that P.K is the better player now. But I still feel Weber is a great player. I do however have issues with the age and miles that Weber has logged compared to P.K. This trade is debatable now. in 2 maybe 3 seasons this looks like an absolute fleece deal and one of the worst in NHL history.

 

[Byrddog]

If the Habs have a pylon to plunk in front of the net and not have the bejezus scared out of them they will create a 30 goal pylon. See Patric Horqvist who made his name cleaning up Sheas garbage.

 

[MikeK]

Which of course explains, you know, why PK was four spots behind Weber in Norris voting.

I always thought the Norris went to the best defenceman. Apparently is does not.

It does? lol

 

[SabresSharks]

I'm still trying to understand why Nashville and Montreal made this trade.

Weber for Subban who would have thought.

Easy to understand Nashville's motivation.

For the Habs, what could it be other than Subban was thought to be a detriment? None of us is in the room with them. I do recall Patches being overwhelmingly voted captain, when most fans assumed it would be PK.

 

[Jetsfan79]

Hey sorry if this was posted already. Tony Marinaro said some interesting things on the radio about PK. If true, it seems he was a cancer and major distraction in the dressing room and the habs covered up the incidents to avoid harming his trade value?

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/marinaro-habs-fans-livid-over-subban-trade-1.518004