Confirmed Trade: [MTL/NSH] P.K. Subban for Shea Weber - Part III

[Noble]

Can't take it, but still wants to dish it out. Don't be so sensitive, but if you insist on it, try not to pretend your objective and operating completely on "common sense" if you're going to quite obviously show your bias in the content of a post.

Nowhere did I say I was being objective, and nowhere did I say I didn't have bias. In fact, I implied the exact opposite when referring to the Habs as "we".

There's no objectivity needed in knowing you aren't tied to a player's contract for the entire duration, especially when the salary dips to $1m. Its actually common sense knowing that. Weber doesnt have a NTC or NMC, it would actually be quite easy to get rid of him if the habs really wanted to. By no means are they stuck with him until he's 40. That's common sense.

 

[glenbuis]

It is a complete fabrication. When Dale Weise says he was offended by what has been said about PK and the locker room issues and denies all of it....hmmm I tend to side with him.

Habs do not like players who don't fall in line. Cammeleri was traded for calling out the team's play (in the middle of a game no lesss). That happened the last time the team had a terrible season.

like the other poster said you can look up on utube to see all the altercations with teammates. the desharnais one was paticurally disturbing. Not because of all the stick swinging but because when subban was down and davey was trying to break him open but because no teammates were even attempting to stop it. that was not a sign of good team chemistry.

 

[mashedpotato]

Nowhere did I say I was being objective, and nowhere did I say I didn't have bias. In fact, I implied the exact opposite when referring to the Habs as "we".

There's no objectivity needed in knowing you aren't tied to a player's contract for the entire duration, especially when the salary dips to $1m. Its actually common sense knowing that. Weber doesnt have a NTC or NMC, it would actually be quite easy to get rid of him if the habs really wanted to. By no means are they stuck with him until he's 40. That's common sense.

I agree with the flexibility of the contract and the AAV at the later years; only thing I'd add is that you traded one of the youngest, productive, most marketable defensemen in the game to get it.

if you're not a Habs fan, you have to find this particularly entertaining .....

 

[Ginu]

Can someone explain to me why there happens to be an issue with Weber at 35-40 when teams struggling to reach the cap floor will pay him $1m-$6m per season for a $7.8m cap hit?

That's a positive for us not a negative.

 

[mashedpotato]

Can someone explain to me why there happens to be an issue with Weber at 35-40 when teams struggling to reach the cap floor will pay him $1m-$6m per season for a $7.8m cap hit?

That's a positive for us not a negative.

because you gave up Subban for that positive?

 

[InTheWrist]

because you gave up Subban for that positive?

People are in rationalizing mode. It won't be long before someone tells me 3 years of Webber is better than 10 years of subban.

Just wait for it.

 

[mashedpotato]

Not waiting three years to see the value of trading a top 10 young defenceman for an old top 10 defenceman.

The value is apparent now, and it feels good

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Nsh found a way to take some mileage off of their best defenseman. Not saying there is anything wrong with Weber, or that he doesn't have some solid years left.

But it is essentially like resetting to a lower age window. Montreal closed the window a bit; with an equally as talented defender.

 

[habs03]

Weber is going to be a top dmen until he is 37-38 quiet easily.

Likely a top pairing dmen until 40 if he wanted to play the whole contact (he won't likely play those last 3 years at 1M per)

People for some reason think elite dmen like Weber are going to decline in their mid to late 30's decline.

Best example is Pronger, who plays a similar game to Weber, where he was able to still be an elite dmen at an older age because he just doesn't use his size but knows how to think the game.

 

[Runner77]

I agree with the flexibility of the contract and the AAV at the later years; only thing I'd add is that you traded one of the youngest, productive, most marketable defensemen in the game to get it.

if you're not a Habs fan, you have to find this particularly entertaining .....

So many Hab fans in denial. They think they're getting Weber from 4 years ago.

The trade is overwhelmingly derided by non-Hab fans. Going to be interesting to see how well PK does in Nashville without Therrien's regressive system and getting coached by the likes of Phil Housley.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Not that I think PK's personal brand will be hurt by Nashville (come on, they've embraced McNair, Eddie George, etc.), but Montreal has always been supportive and tolerant of visible minorities, all the way back to when Jackie Robinson was well received by the city when he was with the Montreal Royals.

And while Montreal fans supporting him in blackface was wrong, ignorant and racist, it wasn't malicious or mean spirited. And I'm not sure about how common this was, but I think saying "many fans" is probably a significant overestimation.

I'm not so sure if I agree with this...especially now. As far as fans in blackface, I could post 5 pictures. Can't say I've ever seen that in any other team or league. Weird way of showing support. I think PK will be an even bigger pressence in Nashville. There's a strong black community over there. Think PK will also grow his brand in the US. I don't think he's worried about it.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

like the other poster said you can look up on utube to see all the altercations with teammates. the desharnais one was paticurally disturbing. Not because of all the stick swinging but because when subban was down and davey was trying to break him open but because no teammates were even attempting to stop it. that was not a sign of good team chemistry.

Once again you're looking at a situation and putting your own biased spin on it. Your own confirmation bias. Watch how PK plays in practice. He plays 100%. Full effort. Some teammaes who like to float along don't appreciate it.

All I know is last season during a terrible slide, PK was arguably the only guy bringing 100% effort as his teammates (including his captain) mailed it in. If I'm the GM, I look at the players who rolled over and those are the guys I'm getting rid of.

Team chemistry was fine even as early as this season. Now all of a sudden PK is the cause of bad team chemistry? WTF? Mighty convenient that there were never any locker room issues previously but as soon as he's jetisoned out of town, there are locker room issues. Give me a break.

Max Pacioretty broke his neck on a dirty hit...not a single teammate did anything. That's telling of how they felt about him at the time. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

 

[Runner77]

All I know is last season during a terrible slide, PK was arguably the only guy bringing 100% effort as his teammates (including his captain) mailed it in. If I'm the GM, I look at the players who rolled over and those are the guys I'm getting rid of.

Team chemistry was fine even as early as this season. Now all of a sudden PK is the cause of bad team chemistry? WTF? Mighty convenient that there were never any locker room issues previously but as soon as he's jetisoned out of town, there are locker room issues. Give me a break.

The team was in shambles and the coach takes no responsibility? How does he still have a job?

Dressing room issues? Really? Does anyone really know what happens in dressing rooms? The easiest cop-out rationale for a GM who wants to get rid of a player as he knows that the aspect that is the most removed from public scrutiny, is what happens in the dressing room.

 

[loudi94]

While I agree that the winner of this trade will be judged on his current play, I think you're ignoring some key elements to bother players which include age and term of contract.

Can you elaborate what you mean by your last comment?

PK is an entrepreneur the likes of which the league has never seen. He is a media magnet and every move he makes is documented. Remember the winter classic crew had to work hard to make sure it didn't become the PK show. It just is.

 

[Ginu]

because you gave up Subban for that positive?

We definitely gave up the better player, we lost the deal. But his contract being bad at 35-40 isn't a reason why.

 

[Major Happy*]

Still cant believe this move by the Habs, yikes.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

The team was in shambles and the coach takes no responsibility? How does he still have a job?

Dressing room issues? Really? Does anyone really know what happens in dressing rooms? The easiest cop-out rationale for a GM who wants to get rid of a player as he knows that the aspect that is the most removed from public scrutiny, is what happens in the dressing room.

Bergy has been a disappointment since he was hired but the way he has handled Subban from the bridge deal to now is just... Eh, I really have to question his integrity.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

No, you're qualified at losing. Thats about it. If you want to talk bad recent trades, check out the Kessel deal. Now that is truly LOL worthy

Or we just pay Weber until he wants to retire/gets bought out before his contract is up and then Nashville is on the hook for the recapture penalty. If you were qualified in common sense that is.

The Leafs got Kapanen and what turned into Andersen and Rychel for Kessel. Maybe it's just me but that's not a bad return all things considered.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The Leafs got Kapanen and what turned into Andersen and Rychel for Kessel. Maybe it's just me but that's not a bad return all things considered.

Pens won the cup which is what the goal is.

 

[ThirdManIn]

This has to be said entirely too often, but...

The racism discussion is a form of political discussion, and there is only one place on this entire forum where we allow political discussion. That place is not the trade forum. Unless you have a reliable source that shows proof of racism being a motivating factor in the trade, it is libelous to make that claim. Calling others racist, or even implying that a population is largely racist, is against the flaming rule. If you cannot discuss this as a hockey issue and not a social issue you should find elsewhere to air your opinions on the matter.

 

[777]

If Subban and Weber were the same age, there wouldn't have been an issue over the 1 for 1 trade.

I keep reading this, if they were the same age Nashville would never make this trade.

 

[kalessin]

So many Hab fans in denial. They think they're getting Weber from 4 years ago.

The trade is overwhelmingly derided by non-Hab fans. Going to be interesting to see how well PK does in Nashville without Therrien's regressive system and getting coached by the likes of Phil Housley.

What world do you live in?

99% of Habs fans are jumping off bridges or burning their jerseys. Everybody understands what we're getting.

In reality, the trade is probably a wash or favours Montreal for the next couple years, then it starts to swing in favour of Nashville.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I hereby dub this trade....."the Neverending Pain"

 

[SharksCyclops]

Weber is going to be a top dmen until he is 37-38 quiet easily.

Likely a top pairing dmen until 40 if he wanted to play the whole contact (he won't likely play those last 3 years at 1M per)

People for some reason think elite dmen like Weber are going to decline in their mid to late 30's decline.

Best example is Pronger, who plays a similar game to Weber, where he was able to still be an elite dmen at an older age because he just doesn't use his size but knows how to think the game.

How many Final trips did Pronger make it to? And Weber? Weber showed his decline this past postseason, he won't make it to the second round ever again, probably even the postseason.

 

[Runner77]

What world do you live in?

99% of Habs fans are jumping off bridges or burning their jerseys. Everybody understands what we're getting.

In reality, the trade is probably a wash or favours Montreal for the next couple years, then it starts to swing in favour of Nashville.

Well ... I don't get how a declining player who is 4 year older is "probably considered a wash", especially when the current state of the game favors players with Subban's abilities. Montreal isn't favored, their defense just got slower and Weber has lost a step by many accounts. But please, keep on mapping out worlds and galaxies.