Value of: Mtl needs a young goalie. Who and what value?

[HabsAddict]

We have 3 ''figure it out'' goalies in the system.

Primeau, Dobes and Dichow.

I don't have much hope for Vrbetic, but Croteau could have a Dobes-like pathway.

We won't get better than that via trade without jeopardizing the rest of the building effort.

The best hope we have for this kind of goalie is a Samsonov situation or an Euro FA, but we're not going to get their interest before we start trending up, especially on D. I don't think any G in the world would be eager to play behind our next year D (unless the prospects all go Super Saiyan).

Samsonov intrigued me but I edit him out to keep this thread on topic. He is the type that has a high potential with the right coach. But, does he want to be at the starting end of a rebuild? Does he have a choice?

Monty was so bad last year that I'm suprised he's resigned. I would of tried Samsonov for the extra million over a lost cause.

Primeau has one year to grow into a starter and then it's either he's ready or he's lost. With peewee defense in front of him, high probability that he will wilt under pressure.

After that, no one in the system has starter written on them. Never mind top 10 potential.

Ergo..the thread.

As for a solution, Oettinger is there for the offer. If we weren't so bad and our pick likely to be top 5, he's the perfect target.

 

[Treb]

Samsonov intrigued me but I edit him out to keep this thread on topic. He is the type that has a high potential with the right coach. But, does he want to be at the starting end of a rebuild? Does he have a choice?

Monty was so bad last year that I'm suprised he's resigned. I would of tried Samsonov for the extra million over a lost cause.

Primeau has one year to grow into a starter and then it's either he's ready or he's lost. With peewee defense in front of him, high probability that he will wilt under pressure.

After that, no one in the system has starter written on them. Never mind top 10 potential.

Ergo..the thread.

As for a solution, Oettinger is there for the offer. If we weren't so bad and our pick likely to be top 5, he's the perfect target.

There's no way Oettinger leaves Dallas apart from a crippling offer sheet or a lopsided trade.

The compensation would have to be in the last two tiers (2 1st+2nd+3rd or 4 1st) for Dallas to even think about letting him go.

By trade, he would probably cost more than we want to be pay. They would want young guys like Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Barron etc. so it would hurt our rebuild more than anything.

We have to hope some of Primeau, Dobes, Dichow, Croteau or Vrbetic become a decent enough starter, we draft one afterwards or one falls to FA.

When is the last time trading for a NHL goalie (not prospect) actually paid dividend? Unless I'm not mistaken, it hasn't happened in the post 04-05 lockout era.

 

[Xirik]

Habs don't need competent goaltending this year, Throw a dollar at the Canucks and get Depietro then get him some playing time.

Come next year see if Primeau, Depietro, Dube is ready. If not then get in on the goalie market early instead of late like this year and grab a hobo goalie.

 

[Treb]

Habs don't need competent goaltending this year, Throw a dollar at the Canucks and get Depietro then get him some playing time.

Come next year see if Primeau, Depietro, Dube is ready. If not then get in on the goalie market early instead of late like this year and grab a hobo goalie.

We already have a better 3rd goalie (or at least similar) who is still waiver exempt in Primeau.

He would get playing time (in the AHL or as backup) if we deal Allen which will probably won't happen until TDL if ever.

Unless it's either a clear upgrade on Allen on starter this year (and onwards) or an upgrade on Primeau as a prospect, nothing else moves the needle.

 

[Xirik]

We already have a better 3rd goalie (or at least similar) who is still waiver exempt in Primeau.

He would get playing time (in the AHL or as backup) if we deal Allen which will probably won't happen until TDL if ever.

Unless it's either a clear upgrade on Allen on starter this year (and onwards) or an upgrade on Primeau as a prospect, nothing else moves the needle.

yeah, its just that the Habs are too late to the goalie market. The ones that are left signing are terrible and any trad-able goalie is going to Cost more then they are worth.

Better to just run Allen as starter and load up on goalie prospects. Throw each of them some games with the big club.

 

[Treb]

yeah, its just your that the Habs are to late to the goalie market that the ones that are left signing are terrible and any trad-able goalie is going to Cost more then they are worth.

Better to just run Allen as starter and load up on goalie prospects. Throw each of them some games with the big club.

We don't need to dip in the goalie market this year.

Run Allen and Monty.

If they decide to deal Allen, run Monty and Primeau since it's sink/swim year for Primeau next year anyway.


Next year run:
Primeau
Monty

Dobes (if he signs for 2023)/ if not Dichow
Dichow/ Vrbetic or UDFA(if Dobes goes back NCAA)

Obviously, some UFA or UDFA could change the course and land a NHL spot. Most likely under 30.

 

[HabsAddict]

There's no way Oettinger leaves Dallas apart from a crippling offer sheet or a lopsided trade.

The compensation would have to be in the last two tiers (2 1st+2nd+3rd or 4 1st) for Dallas to even think about letting him go.

By trade, he would probably cost more than we want to be pay. They would want young guys like Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Barron etc. so it would hurt our rebuild more than anything.

We have to hope some of Primeau, Dobes, Dichow, Croteau or Vrbetic become a decent enough starter, we draft one afterwards or one falls to FA.

When is the last time trading for a NHL goalie (not prospect) actually paid dividend? Unless I'm not mistaken, it hasn't happened in the post 04-05 lockout era.

Dallas doesn't have enough cap to sign Robertson and Oettinger.

I don't think that Oettinger is going to get more then 6.3 million offer. 1st and 3rd.
Next 3 tiers are 8.4, 10.5 and over 10.5. 8.4? No chance. 10.5? Not a chance in hell.

Bigger concern is our top 5 then a loss of a first. Or two. I would offer that for a 23 year old Price.

I don't share your optimism in net. Last year it was crippling bad. Allen and particularly ECHL Montyhole were bad. Why on earth he was signed for another two years is a mystery.

Weeks away...

NHL raising salary thresholds for 2022 offer-sheet compensation

The NHL is raising the salary thresholds that will determine the draft-pick compensation owed in the 2022 offer-sheet process.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[HabsAddict]

We don't need to dip in the goalie market this year.

Run Allen and Monty.

If they decide to deal Allen, run Monty and Primeau since it's sink/swim year for Primeau next year anyway.


Next year run:
Primeau
Monty

Dobes (if he signs for 2023)/ if not Dichow
Dichow/ Vrbetic or UDFA(if Dobes goes back NCAA)

Obviously, some UFA or UDFA could change the course and land a NHL spot. Most likely under 30.

Why on earth is Monty on our roster?

If we are going to develop goalies, let's start with something that doesn't look like an ECHL refugee.

When my wife comments that she could of stopped some of Montys goals with a wooden spoon, something is terribly wrong.

 

[HabsAddict]

yeah, its just that the Habs are too late to the goalie market. The ones that are left signing are terrible and any trad-able goalie is going to Cost more then they are worth.

Better to just run Allen as starter and load up on goalie prospects. Throw each of them some games with the big club.

That's because Price spouted that he will be "ready" then weeks later, it doesn't look good.

I'm done with him. He needs to ride off into the sunset and the team to fully embrace that now is the time to rebuild the net.

Dipietro, other potential starters, I don't care as long as we recognize the problem and deal with it. Not 3 years from now.

 

[RC51]

habs dont need a goalie, habs are on a full rebuild. Habs are now joining the vast majority of nhl teams. To hell with goalies go for fire power. If you cant beat them join them. Habs will not win the cup next year for sure so whats the best plan? dive again to the bottom. get yet another set of good to great draft picks ( two years in a row) The 2023 draft prospects are very deep. Even if you dont land Bedard the next 5 are game changers for sure. So far 11 picks and 2 first rounders and the habs are not finished dumping a few contracts and who knows what more picks the habs will get.
Hab fans finally on board with the dive to the bottom for 2 years in order to get top talent. Something Habs fans very very hard to do. Almest every team that have won cups in the last 15 years have dove to get better talent. No more mr. nice guy. Take advantage of EVERY LOOPHOLE, PUSH THE RULES. To HELL with whats good for the game overall, just WIN WIN WIN AT ALL COSTS No matter who gets hurt. If your losing just put a few in the hospital and take the penalty its worth it.to WIN WIN WIN..

 

[HABitual Fan]

Too early to be worrying about goaltending. Even Allen is a luxury not a need for a rebuilding team still in tear it down mode. If you can get a decent return for him, you move him and grab the best 3rd goalie off waivers to start the season.

The good news is Montreal has rebuilt the prospect pool, albeit can use even more elite talent, with multiple extra picks in the upcoming drafts as well Hopefully they can get a couple of 2nd round picks at the TDL when they unload the expiring contracts. Last goalies taken high in the draft were Fucale and Price. If there is a need as determined by HuGo, they can use one of the extra 2nds to take the best goalie available in the draft or pursue a couple of NCAA or European free agents as well.

 

[Treb]

Dallas doesn't have enough cap to sign Robertson and Oettinger.

I don't think that Oettinger is going to get more then 6.3 million offer. 1st and 3rd.
Next 3 tiers are 8.4, 10.5 and over 10.5. 8.4? No chance. 10.5? Not a chance in hell.

Bigger concern is our top 5 then a loss of a first. Or two. I would offer that for a 23 year old Price.

I don't share your optimism in net. Last year it was crippling bad. Allen and particularly ECHL Montyhole were bad. Why on earth he was signed for another two years is a mystery.

Weeks away...

NHL raising salary thresholds for 2022 offer-sheet compensation

The NHL is raising the salary thresholds that will determine the draft-pick compensation owed in the 2022 offer-sheet process.

www.sportsnet.ca

Last year and this year are irrelevant in net.

2023-2024 is the year we could be looking for a vet to share the net with Primeau and drop Monty.

Varlamov, Andersen, Talbot, Jarry, Nedeljkovic and Samsonov are all on expiring contract for that year.

 

[Petey O]

Michael DiPietro for a 4th or 5th

 

[BLNY]

Price is done. Thanks, i love you, but we need to move on.

We have Primeau but in my opinion, he's not top 10 NHL starter material.

So the thread question....What is available under 26 that is underated or stuck behind a top goalie? He needs to have top 10 "potential" or we stay with what we have.

As much as a late 1st is available, but it may get complicated! LOL

Thoughts?
.

draft

 

[FerrisRox]

such a goalie likely costs you a 2013 unprotected pick

I think they would be more than happy to trade Michael McCarron for a young, solid goaltender.

Price was not elite from minute one. He had a great rookie year, but it took him years to hit his elite stride. After year 3 people inside and outside of the market were arguing Montreal should keep Halak instead of him.

First of all, those people were largely idiots, so I don't think the is somehow and indication of Price's value, just the amplification of the voices of morons.

 

[PavelBrendl]

They're fine running Allen and Monty for now. They're not competing for a few years, and they've got multiple 1st rounders in 2023, as well as in one of 2024/25/26,. They'll also be drafting early in the 2nd for a few years. If Primeau doesn't progress over this season and next, They can spend one of those picks on a top G prospect.

Who knows, a guy like Dobes might end up being the answer as well. G prospects are hard to predict, and the team could find out they've already got the answer. Either way, it's not a problem that needs to be addressed right now, so no need to panic and give up any assets in a trade yet.

 

[FerrisRox]

I don't share your optimism in net. Last year it was crippling bad. Allen and particularly ECHL Montyhole were bad. Why on earth he was signed for another two years is a mystery.

A mystery? Really?

The organization doesn't want Primeau at the NHL level when the team is going through major growing pains and would rather just have a warm body share the crease with Allen during these re-tooling years. This shouldn't be a mystery at all. This should be blatantly obvious.

The two years is to make him waiver proof because the extra year makes him way less appealing to any team that might have made a claim. Again, this shouldn't be mysterious.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Why bother? Average goalies that can hold down the fort while the team is rebuilding are a dime a dozen. Why waste any assets trying to grab "potential" (and we all know how often potential turns into bust with young netminders) when what you have is suitable for a few years?

Seriously...save all the picks and prospects you have. It's hard collecting them, and way too easy to lose a ton either in bad trades, or when they don't hit their potential.

 

[bernmeister]

Price is done. Thanks, i love you, but we need to move on.

We have Primeau but in my opinion, he's not top 10 NHL starter material.

So the thread question....What is available under 26 that is underated or stuck behind a top goalie? He needs to have top 10 "potential" or we stay with what we have.

As much as a late 1st is available, but it may get complicated! LOL

Thoughts?
.

The Rangers have Garand, and I only mention that now to be constructive. when I get time I will make a separate thread appropriate for the subject, but it will be a huge blockbuster deal w/multiple pieces. Garand is not getting sold a la carte. Has to be comprehensive mutual backscratch.

In a few days when I am back from the real world, til then...

 

[frederixx]

Montreal won't compete for another 2-3 years. They will be patient with their own prospects and see how they turn out. It will be foolish to improve their defense and goalie situation this year, just enough to finish 9-10th.
From Hugues's last trades, it quite obvious what he's trying to do. He knows better than anyone that they will score just enough goals to entertain the fans, but without defense and goalie, they will still get a top pick in next year's deep draft.

 

[Fainting Couch]

When my wife comments that she could of stopped some of Montys goals with a wooden spoon, something is terribly wrong.

Don't be so hard on her, she is obviously a little delusional but many people feel like they can do better than professionals until they actually try it.

 

[Tanknation]

We don't need a young goalie. We have lots of time to draft one and give up nothing. Goalie is the least of my concern when building a team. You can win a cup with an average goalie as the difference between goalies is so slim in the NHL

 

[smirob]

We need a goalie 2 years from now - for now just roll with what we have and figure out the long term plan once an opportunity presents itself.

 

[thebonscott]

The last thing we need is a goalie......I hope Monty plays 65 games. And Kevin Poulin the other 17.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Carter Hart