Montreal now has the 4th best odds for Bedard...

[Rob Sense]

Of course, but what other first traded last deadline weren't protected?

Florida traded their 2024 1st and protected that one.
Both 1sts for Hagel are top 10 protected.
Floridas 2022 1st was top 10 protected.
1st for Toffoli was top 10 protected.
1st for Eichel top 10 protected
1st for Keumper was top 10 protected.

Practically every 1st traded beyond last year was top 10 protected. Florida's is the only one that I can find that wasnt. There was like 1 2022 1st traded at the deadline that wasnt protected (Boston's 1st for Lindholm) but they were already comfortably in a playoff spot.

Its almost the standard now to top 10 protect trades, so I really don't think it would influence the value that much. And youre trading for Ben f***ing Chiarot, even the 1st in the Eichel trade was top 10 protected. Florida caught themselves in a pinch already top 10 protecting their 2022 first and 2024 first before trading away their 2023 first for Chiarot. Just horrible gming and asset management.

As others have mentioned you also have the Duchene and Karlsson trades turning out pretty lopsided due to not lottery protecting 1sts. If the 1st involved for Eichel can be top 10 protected, im sure a 1st for Ben Chiarot could have as well.

Would love to see them get burned for the incompetence.

Depending on how the dice fall the Monahan first from Calgary could also be unprotected.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Stop jinxing us

Florida will do great for the rest of the season.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'd feel really bad for Bedard if he ended up a Hab.

What a dumb comment. Montreal has had many lifers and long term players in the last quarter century. They've had more long-term players than most teams. Koivu, Markov, Plekanec, Price. All 4 have played together and all 4 have played 12+ seasons. If it was as bad as you pretend, this wouldn't have happened.

Also, it's the hockey Mecca, its world capital, birthplace of professional hockey and a highly rated venue by NHL players.

 

[hawksrule]

It does count as a lottery win because they won.

If 3 other teams won, moved up and montreal stayed put, this wouldn't have counted as a win. But, they did "win" and it counts as a win.

Depends on what you mean by “counts as a win”. If you’re implying that it “counts” as one of the two times Montreal can win in a five year period, that’s incorrect, as the 2/5 limits the number of times a team can win through improving its draft position. Montreal didn’t improve its draft position when it won the lottery last year, so it doesn’t count towards the 2/5.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

The Habs did not win the lottery last year

They were the worst team.

lol what? dude you do know only 3 teams have won 1st overall after finishing dead last in the league right?
Toronto, Buffalo and Montreal so I would say that they for sure won a lottery

I'd feel really bad for Bedard if he ended up a Hab.

I wouldn't worry about it they will draft someone who speaks French

 

[dirtydanglez]

can't see florida finishing that low

 

[abo9]

Of course, but what other first traded last deadline weren't protected?

Florida traded their 2024 1st and protected that one.
Both 1sts for Hagel are top 10 protected.
Floridas 2022 1st was top 10 protected.
1st for Toffoli was top 10 protected.
1st for Eichel top 10 protected
1st for Keumper was top 10 protected.

Practically every 1st traded beyond last year was top 10 protected. Florida's is the only one that I can find that wasnt. There was like 1 2022 1st traded at the deadline that wasnt protected (Boston's 1st for Lindholm) but they were already comfortably in a playoff spot.

Its almost the standard now to top 10 protect trades, so I really don't think it would influence the value that much. And youre trading for Ben f***ing Chiarot, even the 1st in the Eichel trade was top 10 protected. Florida caught themselves in a pinch already top 10 protecting their 2022 first and 2024 first before trading away their 2023 first for Chiarot. Just horrible gming and asset management.

As others have mentioned you also have the Duchene and Karlsson trades turning out pretty lopsided due to not lottery protecting 1sts. If the 1st involved for Eichel can be top 10 protected, im sure a 1st for Ben Chiarot could have as well.

Would love to see them get burned for the incompetence.

Idk if someone answered already but I think the answer is simply... the Panthers drew themselves in a corner.

Florida had traded a ton of futures already, including their 2022 pick, top 10 protected.

When they traded for Chiarot though, I doubt they were worried about that. But they also had a deal for Giroux coming that involved the 2024 pick.

Well my guess is twofold;

1- Other teams were interested in Ben Chiarot, and with the Panthers looking so hot, their 2023 pick didnt look great. They probably thought they were fine for at least the next year

2- the team was lining up to acquire Claude Giroux, and traded the 2024 pick in the deal. Not protecting 2023 might have been done to keep that 2024 pick's value - after all if the 2023 is protected, then becomes the 2024, the 2024 becomes 2025 etc.

But yeah, at the end of the day, they'd have been better using tthat 2023 unprotected on like, Giroux and skip on Chiarot... but NHL GM's love their big D man with playoff experience

 

[jfhabs]

Depends on what you mean by “counts as a win”. If you’re implying that it “counts” as one of the two times Montreal can win in a five year period, that’s incorrect, as the 2/5 limits the number of times a team can win through improving its draft position. Montreal didn’t improve its draft position when it won the lottery last year, so it doesn’t count towards the 2/5.

Are you a 100% on this. The rule isn't very clear how I read it, but I sure hope you are right!

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

lol what? dude you do know only 3 teams have won 1st overall after finishing dead last in the league right?
Toronto, Buffalo and Montreal so I would say that they for sure won a lottery


I wouldn't worry about it they will draft someone who speaks French

His last name is French... good enough.

 

[hawksrule]

Are you a 100% on this. The rule isn't very clear how I read it, but I sure hope you are right!

NHL announces changes to Draft Lottery format

“(3) Limit on Teams Winning a Lottery Draw
No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club's ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws”

 

[Michoulicious]

NHL announces changes to Draft Lottery format

“(3) Limit on Teams Winning a Lottery Draw
No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club's ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws”

So since Montreal did not "advance" in the draft order because of the lottery win, they are still allowed to do so in the next 5 years. Looks pretty clear indeed, thanks!

 

[Frank Drebin]

Depends on what you mean by “counts as a win”. If you’re implying that it “counts” as one of the two times Montreal can win in a five year period, that’s incorrect, as the 2/5 limits the number of times a team can win through improving its draft position. Montreal didn’t improve its draft position when it won the lottery last year, so it doesn’t count towards the 2/5.

Well I did not know that stipulation. I've been spreading misinformation, it seems

 

[Heldig]

NHL announces changes to Draft Lottery format

“(3) Limit on Teams Winning a Lottery Draw
No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club's ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws”

Thanks for the clarification. So the Habs can win both lotteries this summer. That would be crazy.

 

[Galactico]

Lol imagine giving a 1st for Ben Chariot. I knew from the start that it was a stupid trade from Florida.

 

[hawksrule]

Thanks for the clarification. So the Habs can win both lotteries this summer. That would be crazy.

The Florida pick is a separate issue, I think? Not sure. Montreal could theoretically win both picks this year for sure. If both picks advance in the lottery, would the Florida pick count towards Montreal’s 2/5? I tend to doubt it, but I don’t know the answer.

 

[hardcorehabs]

Thanks for the clarification. So the Habs can win both lotteries this summer. That would be crazy.

Even further than that, the FLA wouldn’t count as a win for MTL either. It would be Florida’s lottery win.

So by some miracle, if all of the stars align, the Habs could potentially draft:
- lottery win in 2022 MTL’s pick (no advance in draft order)
- lottery win in 2023 MTL’s pick (1/5 years, MTL advances in draft order)
- lottery win in 2023 FLA’s pick (does not count for MTL lottery win)
- lottery win in 2024 MTL’s pick (2/5 years, MTL advances in draft order)

 

[Heldig]

Even further than that, the FLA wouldn’t count as a win for MTL either. It would be Florida’s lottery win.

So by some miracle, if all of the stars align, the Habs could potentially draft:
- lottery win in 2022 MTL’s pick (no advance in draft order)
- lottery win in 2023 MTL’s pick (1/5 years, MTL advances in draft order)
- lottery win in 2023 FLA’s pick (does not count for MTL lottery win)
- lottery win in 2024 MTL’s pick (2/5 years, MTL advances in draft order)

Great for Montreal if that happens. That is ridiculous though. Another example of why the NHL messes up with lottery rules though.

 

[Lshap]

Are you a 100% on this. The rule isn't very clear how I read it, but I sure hope you are right!

Yeah, the text from NHL.com is not 100% clear. Most of their text talks about moving up or down from a team's original position. It makes it sound like winning the lottery refers to getting lucky. In which case, 2022's 1OA would NOT count as a win because Montreal didn't get lucky by moving up.

The very last sentence in this quote is the only reference to the worst-finishing team:

The NHL said the changes will reduce the likelihood of the worst-finishing team dropping in the draft order and not retaining the right to the No. 1 pick; reduce the magnitude of any possible drop in draft order for the worst-finishing team; limit the number of teams eligible to win the No. 1 pick (based on final regular-season standings); and limit the number of times the same team can benefit from winning a lottery drawing.

However, this article from SportsNet is crystal clear:

Also going forward, no team can win the top pick in the draft lottery more than twice in a five-year span. Whichever team wins the No. 1 pick on Tuesday will only be eligible to do so one more time between 2023 and 2026. The Oilers, Buffalo Sabres and New Jersey Devils each won the draft lottery multiple times over the past decade.

If SportsNet got it right, Montreal's 1OA in 2022 DOES count as a win.

But then... would a lottery win by Florida count as a win for them, or Montreal? That's something they didn't mention.

EDIT: Just saw this. Much clearer. Seems SportsNet got it wrong.

NHL announces changes to Draft Lottery format

“(3) Limit on Teams Winning a Lottery Draw
No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club's ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws”

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The Florida pick is a separate issue, I think? Not sure. Montreal could theoretically win both picks this year for sure. If both picks advance in the lottery, would the Florida pick count towards Montreal’s 2/5? I tend to doubt it, but I don’t know the answer.

It's simple really. The team that advances by lottery win gets one of two possible X.

It would be incredibly idiotic to count it to the team that sold the pick.

Even further than that, the FLA wouldn’t count as a win for MTL either. It would be Florida’s lottery win.

Nope

 

[hawksrule]

It's simple really. The team that advances by lottery win gets one of two possible X.

It would be incredibly idiotic to count it to the team that sold the pick.


Nope

What you’re saying may or may not be true, I don’t know. Do you have a link substantiating that aspect of the rule as you understand it?

 

[Rob Sense]

Great for Montreal if that happens. That is ridiculous though. Another example of why the NHL messes up with lottery rules though.

You realize the chances of this happening are astronomical.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

What you’re saying may or may not be true, I don’t know. Do you have a link substantiating that aspect of the rule as you understand it?

The league's entire PR release on the matter makes it very clear. The link was posted previously in the thread.

Not only this, but the oppisite makes zero sense. They are driven towards fairness and parity and doing what you said would go completely against that.

"For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick."

In other words, the team that wins a draw and advances in the draft order, not the pick itself.

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/14767

 

[hawksrule]

The league's entire PR release on the matter makes it very clear. The link was posted previously in the thread.

Not only this, but the oppisite makes zero sense. They are driven towards fairness and parity and doing what you said would go completely against that.

"For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick."

In other words, the team that wins a draw and advances in the draft order, not the pick itself.

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/14767

I hear what you’re saying, but I still think it’s murky regarding moving up via another team’s pick. In other words, if Florida’s pick moves up, is it Florida moving up with Montreal as the beneficiary, or is it considered that Montreal is moving up? Conversely, suppose my Blackhawks are lucky enough to advance in the draft and win the lottery the next two years. In year-3, their pick wouldn’t be eligible to win, but according to you if they trade the pick then the pick could win the lottery for another team? Again, that could be how it works, but it’s far from clear.

 

[HuGo Sham]

lol what? dude you do know only 3 teams have won 1st overall after finishing dead last in the league right?
Toronto, Buffalo and Montreal so I would say that they for sure won a lottery


I wouldn't worry about it they will draft someone who speaks French

leafs fans dumb comments keep piling up in this thread.

merry xmas

 

[Heldig]

You realize the chances of this happening are astronomical.

Of course.

But it could.