Montreal embarrassed by Tampa and themselves (Lose 6-2)

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WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
I want to blame the player when he takes a stupid, undisciplined penaltly that costs the team. If that happened every game this season, I'd blame them every time. Has nothing to do with the coaching. Sometimes players just do stupid things and last night, it ended up costing us. With PK, it happens much too often.

It is a completely separate issue from coaching.
But your assuming that a single penalty can cost us a game when there are factors that are much more indicative of coaching failures - like the PP, etc.

Don't blame the snowflake for the avalanche. Sure the penalties didn't help but our approach to the games is just plain awful.
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
25,517
23,327
Orleans
Not to be the pessimist here but they've lost the last 7 against Tampa, I don't see the coach being genius enough to try something, what makes you think they'll win 4 in a row ?: )

I've yet to see Therrien or Vigneault or Quenville score a goal, this is on the players, game 1 their scoring chances were 29-16 against Tampa's, almost twice as much, they buried ONE GOAL! Game 2 they had multitude of grade A chances to score in the first period...they buried ONE GOAL! Take away the empty net goals and they've scored 8 goals in 6 freggin games, it's unsustainable!! They're generating tons of chances, tons of shots, hardly any goals, but hey, it's like trying to make apple juice with pears when it comes to this team and its ability to score
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
25,517
23,327
Orleans
So you want to blame the players? For every game this season?

For the past 30 or so games, since the trade deadline, we've been scoring at a lottery-team pace. Do you really think that's on the players? 30 games?

It's definitely on both, but mainly on players, the shots and chances are there, Mais il y a un manque de finition d'la pars des joueurs, players have to bury their opportunities man...
 

Apoplectic Habs Fan

Registered User
Aug 17, 2002
29,687
18,383
It's definitely on both, but mainly on players, the shots and chances are there, Mais il y a un manque de finition d'la pars des joueurs, players have to bury their opportunities man...

In some of the playoff games the chances are there, for the vast majority of games this season the chances to score arent there.

Dont pretend the chances we saw the first two games vs tb are the norm.
 

tinyzombies

Registered User
Dec 24, 2002
16,925
2,391
Montreal, QC, Canada
In some of the playoff games the chances are there, for the vast majority of games this season the chances to score arent there.

Dont pretend the chances we saw the first two games vs tb are the norm.

Which means that we are well coached and have saved the best for last and still finished in first, right?
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
25,517
23,327
Orleans
In some of the playoff games the chances are there, for the vast majority of games this season the chances to score arent there.

Dont pretend the chances we saw the first two games vs tb are the norm.

most of our players did not bury their chances in the regular season and most of our players are not burying their chances in the playoffs, that's fact!!...stop pretending like this isn't true. There's a reason we're the worst offensive team in the playoffs....MANQUE DE FINITION!!
 

Apoplectic Habs Fan

Registered User
Aug 17, 2002
29,687
18,383
Which means that we are well coached and have saved the best for last and still finished in first, right?

Umm sure. Made about much sense as well, nothing.

What is this best for last? A round two potential sweep? If thats what they saved up for, thats piss poor coaching
 

M.C.G. 31

Damn, he brave!
Oct 6, 2008
96,269
18,940
Ottawa
I'm in a similar boat, and have considered it in the past, especially since I also cheer for the Canucks. It just irks me management essentially puts language politics before winning the Stanley Cup. I guarantee even the most stubborn of people would get over it if we became the next Chicago/LA.

It's sort of why I adopted the Hawks as a "2nd team" several years ago. The alternative to the Habs for me; no politics, fun, exciting, talented hockey. Everything the Habs aren't.
 

lamp9post

Registered User
Jan 28, 2007
4,446
1,733
But your assuming that a single penalty can cost us a game when there are factors that are much more indicative of coaching failures - like the PP, etc.

Don't blame the snowflake for the avalanche. Sure the penalties didn't help but our approach to the games is just plain awful.

I'm not assuming that at all. There were many factors (the inability of our PP to score being the major one), however this one is completely in the hands of the players and completely in their control. PK's crosscheck was a blunder that cost a goal, nothing more nothing less. That contributed to the loss, but it wasn't the only factor. All I'm saying is that there are certain things that come as a result of coaching, and certain things that the players bring on themselves. PK's stupid crosscheck is an example of the latter.
 
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Apoplectic Habs Fan

Registered User
Aug 17, 2002
29,687
18,383
I'm not assuming that at all. There were many factors (the inability of our PP to score being the major one), however this one is completely in the hands of the players and completely in their control. PK's crosscheck was a blunder that cost a goal, nothing more nothing less. That contributed to the loss, but it wasn't the only factor. All I'm saying is that there are certain things that come as a result of coaching, and certain things that the players bring on themselves. PK's stupid crosscheck is an example of the latter.

You said you would blame a player every time if he took bad penalties every game.

If a player is taking bad penalties every game, there is an accountability issue. Thats a coaching issue.

So yes, you are absolving the coach of blame when you say its always the players fault.
 

Apoplectic Habs Fan

Registered User
Aug 17, 2002
29,687
18,383
We outplayed them in game 1 and outplayed the Sens in the first round playing this style. You are just upset we lost.

We did not out play the sens round one. it was 50/50.

makes me think you didnt even watch games. If it wasnt for hammond crapping the bed, mtl wouldnt be in round two


games 4 thru 6 montreal looked terrible most of the time
 

M.C.G. 31

Damn, he brave!
Oct 6, 2008
96,269
18,940
Ottawa
We outplayed them in game 1 and outplayed the Sens in the first round playing this style. You are just upset we lost.

The thing with the Sens is that we scored 7 goals in 2 games on Hammond. As soon as a real NHL goaltender was put in the net, the troubles were clear. If Anderson started, there's a good chance we don't even advance because of the piss poor offense.
 

lamp9post

Registered User
Jan 28, 2007
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You said you would blame a player every time if he took bad penalties every game.

If a player is taking bad penalties every game, there is an accountability issue. Thats a coaching issue.

So yes, you are absolving the coach of blame when you say its always the players fault.

There is simply no excuse for the crosschecking penalty Subban took. What I meant was that undisciplined penalties like that are entirely in the hands of the players. If a player decides to punch another player in a scrum after the whistle and gets a penalty for it, then it is entirely his fault for putting his team shorthanded. Plays like that have nothing to do with the coach and I will blame the player (not the coach) for taking a stupid, undisciplined penalty every time since it is 100% his fault.

If players are constantly taking stupid penalties without reproach from the coach, then yes, at that point he would share in some of the blame as well.
 

Takeru

Registered User
Oct 6, 2014
2,235
752
I tend to side with LF's theory; that it is more the players deviating from Therrien's system rather than him having any influence, especially as we saw it creep back in when we were up 3-0 against Ottawa. Another notably issue is adjustments, or the lack thereof. We get destroyed by any team who can adjust to what we're doing because Therrien doesn't know how to counter.

Why think about complicated stuff like countering and adjustments when you just have to blame it on compete level, indiscipline and so forth? No excuses eh Michel?
 

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
25,681
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Quebec City, Canada
In some of the playoff games the chances are there, for the vast majority of games this season the chances to score arent there.

Dont pretend the chances we saw the first two games vs tb are the norm.

Well TB is not a great defensive team. They finished 11th in the league for the GAA. Not terribly bad but not very good either. They win their game 3-2 not 1-0 or 2-1. But we finished 18th in the league for the GFA so we can't beat their goalie even if we have good chances.
 

RussCourtnallsGhost

Registered User
Jul 10, 2006
813
90
Montreal
Really inexcusable. No way is he captain material pulling crap like that.

I'm not defending the way the Habs played, but that's a bunch of BS. That stuff doesn't usually (and shouldn't) get called in the playoffs. Gallagher took worse than that at least 10 times per game against the Sens.

The problem there is inconsistent officiating. Yes, the Habs played bad in the 2nd and 3rd, but it doesn't help when the rulebook changes all of a sudden.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,334
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Jeddah
I can't believe no one is talking about PK Subban's stupid crosscheck penalty. When will he grow out of this BS and smarten up? The team just killed a 4 minute PP to gain some confidence, it's the last 2 minutes of the period, and its on a play after the whistle that had no impact on the game. Not only that, but he's one of our best on the PK! Utterly stupid and indefensible. You would think, being a Norris winner and nominated again this year that he would be above this kind of thing, but time and again he somehow feels the need to prove his toughness by taken dumb, selfish penalties at the most inopportune times. I love PK, but he seriously needs to grow up and stop hurting the team with this stuff.

No one is talking about it because that routine crosscheck gets ignored 99% of the time. Heck, Pacioretty on the very first play of the game gave an even bigger one to Hedman in the offensive zone after the whistle and he didn't get a penalty for it.
Some of you need to get your head of your *****. Yea, he took a penalty and unfortunately it costs us a goal. But he's defending the front of the net and I think it's pretty clear from the way ALL our Dmen have been playing that they need to protect the front of Price. So when an aggressive player like Callahan that rushes the net for the sole purpose of getting in Price's face, hell ya, slash or crosscheck him. I don't care if it costs you a penalty. You want to crash towards Price, expect it to be painful. No problem with that penalty.

In Montreal people want both. They want the team to protect Price, they want the players to be aggressive and hit opponents, but wait, you have to do all this and be completely disciplined too. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes you'll have to accept that this extra crosscheck or slash or punch is going to get you on the PK. You live with it if that's how you want your team to play.

Anyways, even if you want to scream bloody murder for that penalty. Fine. As far as I know, it's still just 1-1 right? Which is a pretty good improvement compared to being down a goal most of the time. We also dominated TB during ES, and despite allowing that goal on the PK, we had a bunch of chances shorthanded. So what exactly happens in the locker for them to be flat in the 2nd period?? Heck, in the first 5 min of the 2nd period, they even got 2 PPs!
But yes, all of this is just smokescreen. The real issue that people should discuss is...OMG That one Subban penalty!!!! :facepalm:
Come on man. Talking about one single 2 min event instead of what happened in the 58 other minutes is rather foolish.

The habs weren't undisciplined. That's a crap excuse that just avoids the real issues.
Our lack of production from the top 6 and the horrendous PP. Not to mention, the PK was absolutely terrible and our coach seemingly did nothing to adjust it (surprise surprise).
Most of the penalties were questionable calls for a PO game. Every single penalty given yesterday to the Habs would go uncalled in other games.
The refs picked and chose when to give a penalty. Was completely random and stupid, unless you want to argue that TB played a completely clean game from halfway through the game?..Typical NHL officiating, except yesterday they decided to call more on the Habs. Just because the refs decided to make these calls on the Habs doesn't mean they were any more or less disciplined than they usually are.
I completely disagree with this stupid cop out of an excuse that the Habs were undisciplined. They weren't. It has zero to do with this loss.

I want to blame the player when he takes a stupid, undisciplined penaltly that costs the team. If that happened every game this season, I'd blame them every time. Has nothing to do with the coaching. Sometimes players just do stupid things and last night, it ended up costing us. With PK, it happens much too often.

It is a completely separate issue from coaching.

Nothing to do with coaching? Can you tell me for a fact that the coach didn't say ''Protect the front of the net and Price at all cost''??

For the record, I'm not saying he did say it, but I'm not the one claiming to know it 100% had nothing to do with coaching.

If you want your players to protect the goalie, then you can't whine about them being undisciplined after when they do just that.
 
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YukonCornelius 5thOA

Lurking and liking.
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Sep 6, 2006
9,205
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These back to backs are a perfect opportunity to get back into the series. On the road with nothing to focus on but hockey for 48 hours. Go in there all business and play that simple boring, MT system that got 50 wins this year. It's all they got at this point.

Finish your checks and stop playing after the whistle unless it's in front of Carey of course.
 

lamp9post

Registered User
Jan 28, 2007
4,446
1,733
No one is talking about it because that routine crosscheck gets ignored 99% of the time. Heck, Pacioretty on the very first play of the game gave an even bigger one to Hedman in the offensive zone after the whistle and he didn't get a penalty for it.
Some of you need to get your head of your *****. Yea, he took a penalty and unfortunately it costs us a goal. But he's defending the front of the net and I think it's pretty clear from the way ALL our Dmen have been playing that they need to protect the front of Price. So when an aggressive player like Callahan that rushes the net for the sole purpose of getting in Price's face, hell ya, slash or crosscheck him. I don't care if it costs you a penalty. You want to crash towards Price, expect it to be painful. No problem with that penalty.

In Montreal people want both. They want the team to protect Price, they want the players to be aggressive and hit opponents, but wait, you have to do all this and be completely disciplined too. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes you'll have to accept that this extra crosscheck or slash or punch is going to get you on the PK. You live with it if that's how you want your team to play.

Anyways, even if you want to scream bloody murder for that penalty. Fine. As far as I know, it's still just 1-1 right? Which is a pretty good improvement compared to being down a goal most of the time. We also dominated TB during ES, and despite allowing that goal on the PK, we had a bunch of chances shorthanded. So what exactly happens in the locker for them to be flat in the 2nd period?? Heck, in the first 5 min of the 2nd period, they even got 2 PPs!
But yes, all of this is just smokescreen. The real issue that people should discuss is...OMG That one Subban penalty!!!! :facepalm:
Come on man. Talking about one single 2 min event instead of what happened in the 58 other minutes is rather foolish.

The habs weren't undisciplined. That's a crap excuse that just avoids the real issues.
Our lack of production from the top 6 and the horrendous PP. Not to mention, the PK was absolutely terrible and our coach seemingly did nothing to adjust it (surprise surprise).
Most of the penalties were questionable calls for a PO game. Every single penalty given yesterday to the Habs would go uncalled in other games.
The refs picked and chose when to give a penalty. Was completely random and stupid, unless you want to argue that TB played a completely clean game from halfway through the game?..Typical NHL officiating, except yesterday they decided to call more on the Habs. Just because the refs decided to make these calls on the Habs doesn't mean they were any more or less disciplined than they usually are.
I completely disagree with this stupid cop out of an excuse that the Habs were undisciplined. They weren't. It has zero to do with this loss.



Nothing to do with coaching? Can you tell me for a fact that the coach didn't say ''Protect the front of the net and Price at all cost''??

For the record, I'm not saying he did say it, but I'm not the one claiming to know it 100% had nothing to do with coaching.

If you want your players to protect the goalie, then you can't whine about them being undisciplined after when they do just that.

Again, I never said that single penalty cost us the game, but it was certainly a factor. It directly lead to a goal against. Prust is lucky they killed off his penalties. Could you imagine the blame that would have been put on him if Tampa scored 2 goals on that 4 minute penalty to go ahead 2-1?

And that was not protecting the goalie. Subban had position on Callahan from the get go until the end when the whistle blew. Textbook defence - Callahan didn't come within 5 feet of Price due to Subban's great box out, and then, after the whistle blows and the play is dead...down comes the lumber for absolutely no reason. Our penalty killers, must have been exhausted by this point having just killed off another selfish 4 minute penalty by Prust.

Yeah, Therrien sucks, I get it. I'm not defending him. But when you are playing a team that has had our number all season, you know the margin for error is slim. Why give them 6 consecutive minutes of powerplay time to end the first period? It was a blunder plain and simple.
 

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