Montreal embarrassed by Tampa and themselves (Lose 6-2)

[Takeru]

Agreed completely.

The penalty was ********, as was Watson lecturing him when he was in the box.

There's no accountability for referees in the NHL.

And this is getting more and more of a problem. The refs are admittedly biased against certain players (Gallagher, and now apparently Prust, as well as probably many others).

This is not the way it should be. A referee HAS to be objective, he can't let his opinion or his judgment on a player dictate his job. The closer he is to a machine, the better he is at his job. Any ref shouldn't care for the name of the player getting a call. Yet we hear more and more cases of referee bias, and people seem to accept it like that's just the way it is and should be.

Just gonna leave that here:
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/call-of-the-wilde-the-case-of-the-cursing-ref-1.2357434

 

[lamp9post]

It was an extremely minimal factor. Anybody that argues otherwise just avoids the bigger issues. I mean I understand why a coach would do that, much easier to blame the indiscipline rather than discuss why you just can't score or the putrid PP.
But as alleged knowledgeable fans, you shouldn't get frustrated over such a minor event. You want to argue they were bad penalties. Fine. That's debatable. I don't think they were bad penalties. I think they were routine plays that aren't called 99% of the time. You said to imagine if they had scored on Prust's penalties. If that had happened, there's no way they would have called that penalty on PK. None. This shows how incredibly bad and inconsistent the officiating is in the NHL.
So it's highly debatable if those were stupid penalties or just routine plays that referees just decided to call.
But even if you want to call them the stupidest penalties of all time, it's still just 1-1 at the end of it. At the end of it, we weren't losing the game after those penalties.
So really, they're not that important to mention. It's 1-1 after the first, we had 2 PPs to start the second, but for some reason you think people should really be discussing the bad penalties??? Why not discuss what happened for the majority of the game instead of such a small amount of time? Doesn't make any sense to me.
If TB had scored 3 goals on those penalties, then okay, but that's not the case at all.

Callahan wasn't rushing the front so he can come say hi to PK. He rushed the front so he can get in Price's face or at the very least in PK's, as he's been attempting to do since the start of the series. And again, after the whistle or not, you are very well aware that these type of events happen in every game and the majority of the time they're not penalized.
If there's no penalty called there people applaud PK for shoving Callahan down. He has a penalty so he's a selfish idiot who took a stupid penalty.
It's very similar to how people complained that we need a guy that won't send a fax when one of our guys gets hit suspiciously dirty. Doesn't matter who it is, people want a guy that will set the tone. So in comes White who drops the gloves and puts a beatdown on Fleischmann after he hits Gorges from behind. But hey, he gets a penalty so people call him an idiot and Therrien tells him to change his game. We chased him out.

I have zero issues with what PK did. I rather see that than to see him give those little encouraging slaps to opponents.

Those 6 minutes of PP were very questionable to begin with.
But again, even if you want to say they were well deserved, it's still just 1-1!!!!
So what happened after?? Oh right, we get two PP in the first five minutes of the 2nd, but as it's been the case for the past 2 years, we can't produce crap on them.
And after? We didn't have an answer for their PP. 50% on the PK, why were we not able to adjust???
We did not lose the game because we gave 6 min of PP in the first period to TB. That's not why we lost. We lost because our top 6 has produced less points than Corey Perry. We lost because Tyler Johnson has more goals than our entire top 6. We lost because Torrey freaking Mitchell leads our forwards in points. We lost because the god damn Montreal Impact averaged more goals during the Concacaf then us. We lost because we score as much as what the Sabres have all year.
We lost because our PK went for 50% and no adjustments were made.

That's why we lost and that's what you should be discussing. Not two ''stupid'' penalties that would usually not even be called in a PO game.

Wow, thanks for telling me what I should be discussing. Apparently any post that doesn't attack Therrien deserves a double-take and an essay length reply LOL!

You're not telling me anything new. I already said that Therrien sucks. I get it. But why can't we ALSO acknowledge that bad penalties were taken that directly led to a goal against at a critical point in a critical game in the second round of the playoffs?

Again, I'm not dismissing the putrid powerplay or the lack of offense. All of this has been mentioned to death already and I couldn't agree more. BUT STUPID PENALTIES were unquestionably a factor in game 2 and I don't understand why it's acceptable to gloss over these as trivial when they DIRECTLY led to goals against. 4 of Tampa's 6 goals were on the PP. I give you that the Habs' offence and PP have failed us - That's just more reason to be disciplined and not take bad penalties.

Anyway, it's clear that there is a group here with an agenda that does not accept that the players are to blame for anything, so I'm not going to try to convince you. Just wanted to express my opinion that bad penalties were a factor in the loss (not the sole reason, though I don't suppose some will understand the subtlety).

 

[Kriss E]

He could've said the same thing behind closed doors and away from the cameras. There are procedures in place for this kind of thing. Going to the cameras doesn't help anyone, least of all Brandon Prust.

Disagree. There are limits to the ''let's keep it under wraps'' philosophy.
Just like the leaked emails where Campbell is insulting Walkom and going nuts over certain non-calls where a ton of conflict of interest statements were made.

You expect the refs to calm things down and be impartial. Not lose their cool and flip a switch on a player. Refs can hate players. Their job requires them to be objective. Nothing in the 2 min extra is objective. So ya, Prust could have kept it behind clsoed doors and the league might or might not have handled it. When you make it public, the league has to answer.

 

[lamp9post]

Disagree. There are limits to the ''let's keep it under wraps'' philosophy.
Just like the leaked emails where Campbell is insulting Walkom and going nuts over certain non-calls where a ton of conflict of interest statements were made.

You expect the refs to calm things down and be impartial. Not lose their cool and flip a switch on a player. Refs can hate players. Their job requires them to be objective. Nothing in the 2 min extra is objective. So ya, Prust could have kept it behind clsoed doors and the league might or might not have handled it. When you make it public, the league has to answer.

The refereeing has been bad all playoffs. Even more reason I want our players to focus on winning the game rather than worrying about whether the referees are being fair.

Really, who cares how the league responds to Prust? Do you really think it impacts the outcome of this series in the slightest?

 

[Kriss E]

Wow, thanks for telling me what I should be discussing. Apparently any post that doesn't attack Therrien deserves a double-take and an essay length reply LOL!

You're not telling me anything new. I already said that Therrien sucks. I get it. But why can't we ALSO acknowledge that bad penalties were taken that directly led to a goal against at a critical point in a critical game in the second round of the playoffs?

Again, I'm not dismissing the putrid powerplay or the lack of offense. All of this has been mentioned to death already and I couldn't agree more. BUT STUPID PENALTIES were unquestionably a factor in game 2 and I don't understand why it's acceptable to gloss over these as trivial when they DIRECTLY led to goals against. 4 of Tampa's 6 goals were on the PP. I give you that the Habs' offence and PP have failed us - That's just more reason to be disciplined and not take bad penalties.

Anyway, it's clear that there is a group here with an agenda that does not accept that the players are to blame for anything, so I'm not going to try to convince you. Just wanted to express my opinion that bad penalties were a factor in the loss (not the sole reason, though I don't suppose some will understand the subtlety).

Because this ''indiscipline'' you want to discuss is a smokescreen. It's what Therrien discusses because it avoids the real concern with this team.
You also aren't really discussing them, you just went on a little rant about how stupid some players were to take such penalties.
If you want to discuss them, then we can discuss, as I have, the legitimacy of those penalties.
As I said, every one of the penalties given could be ignored by the officials in other games. Heck, even in the very same game, some similar penalties were ignored.
Pacioretty crosschecked Hedman after scrum. No call. PK does it. Penalty. Morrow hit DSP for a clear interference call right in front of the ref. No call. Petry does it. Penalty. Gilbert crosscheck, it's a routine damn crosscheck. Happens all the freaking time. Mitchell interference, did you pay attention to how Bishop acts when he leaves the net? If not, then start doing it. He commits interference all the freaking time and baits calls. He was even seemingly warned for it last game as he tried to sell an interference on Galchenyuk by pretending to be pushed as he jumped onto the back of his net after coming out to play the puck. The problem is Galchenyuk decided to break instead of following through, so Bishop looked like a moron. On the Mitchell play, he's out of his crease and looks for the call. That was evident from the overhead replay.
On one particular play, can't recall which player it was on TB, but he was chasing Gilbert. He put his stick around his hips and did two consecutive clear hooks 80's style, and then a two handed slash. That's 3 penalties on the same damn play. None were called.

So again, you keep saying they were stupid and undisciplined penalties, but really, these type of plays happen all the time. Heck, next time just look at how many crosschecks, hooking, slashes, interference happens on the dying minutes of a game when a goalie was pulled and there's sustained offensive pressure.
The reality, and you'll likely agree, is that you could argue that each teams commit at the very least 10 penalties every game. I mean, they gave 8 PPs to TB, but it could have been more. We got 3 PPs, and we definitely could have gotten more as well. So when the refs decide to be these tough refs on that one given night, I'm not going to say the team was undisciplined. They played the same damn way the previous night, just weren't called on the penalties nearly as much.

Now, if penalties like the one given to Prust or PK were called 99% of the time, then yea, I would fully agree with you that they were dumb. But you know as well as I do that they're not. Not even close to being called that often.

A stupid penalty to me would be someone taking a dumb penalty like slashing or punching a player behind the play when we're down by 1 with 2min left. Something like that. That is what I consider a stupid penalty.

I don't think the players are free of criticism. They need to be blamed for their lack of finish and some of the poor decisions they take at times. So ya, it's the coach+players that deserve blame. I just won't blame them for those penalties.

 

[Kriss E]

The refereeing has been bad all playoffs. Even more reason I want our players to focus on winning the game rather than worrying about whether the referees are being fair.

Really, who cares how the league responds to Prust? Do you really think it impacts the outcome of this series in the slightest?

No I don't. As I said many times before, we're not losing this series because of penalties. We're losing because we can't score and our special teams have been terrible. Fix that and we have a chance to win. Don't and we'll lose.

But anything that will force action from the league towards bad officiating is a plus in my book.

 

[Brainiac]

Disagree. There are limits to the ''let's keep it under wraps'' philosophy.
Just like the leaked emails where Campbell is insulting Walkom and going nuts over certain non-calls where a ton of conflict of interest statements were made.

You expect the refs to calm things down and be impartial. Not lose their cool and flip a switch on a player. Refs can hate players. Their job requires them to be objective. Nothing in the 2 min extra is objective. So ya, Prust could have kept it behind clsoed doors and the league might or might not have handled it. When you make it public, the league has to answer.

I agree with you on the whole.

IF (and only IF) Watson really said the things Prust reported, then I'm fine with him going public about it. And anyways, it really looks like Prust was just calling it like it happened.

It might sound unfair, but yes, players can verbally abuse refs (to a certain extent, of course) but refs can never verbally abuse players.

It's like having kids. At some point, they'll tell you that they hate you and that you're a mother****er (well, still technically true most of the time). But you, as a parent, cannot do the same.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

I think the part I find most troubling is hearing PK Subban talk about how they played well and if the special teams battle had gone differently the game might have.

Shut up and win the games, that kind of excuse making comes from the coach, who has made a career out of whining about how things didn't go their way every single time they don't go their way.

It's like clock work.

He will blame the forwards for not having the results they needed. He'll throw every one of them under the bus.

He will accept no responsibility for the year plus of having a stale and far too simplistic power play.

Whines about the fans desreving better because of a missed offside.

Price gave up a goal in 75 minutes, get 2 and your team wins, instead you sit back and make a team full of small soft offensive players a dump and chase team, while the GM over flows the team with bottom 6 players with middling offensive upside.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

I agree with you on the whole.

IF (and only IF) Watson really said the things Prust reported, then I'm fine with him going public about it. And anyways, it really looks like Prust was just calling it like it happened.

It might sound unfair, but yes, players can verbally abuse refs (to a certain extent, of course) but refs can never verbally abuse players.

It's like having kids. At some point, they'll tell you that they hate you and that you're a mother****er (well, still technically true most of the time). But you, as a parent, cannot do the same.

I think it's quite different than having kids to be honest.

More like being a prison guard to be honest.

You know sometimes guys are gonna be complete jackasses, but the reason you are employed is because you do NOT do that.

At all times, you are looking to keep order, and or restore it.

Whatever Brad Watson said doesn't matter, the way he pointed his finger at Prust and gave it to him while he was in the box is unacceptable.

If Prust said something out of line, he could have given him a 10 minute misconduct, without skating over there and shoving his finger at him and saying anything.

Watson was in the wrong, regardless of what he said, and Prust going public doesn't change it either.

He's there to keep peace.

No one in the history of the world has ever tried to keep the peace by shoving their finger at another grown man and scolding him.

 

[Kriss E]

I think the part I find most troubling is hearing PK Subban talk about how they played well and if the special teams battle had gone differently the game might have.

Shut up and win the games, that kind of excuse making comes from the coach, who has made a career out of whining about how things didn't go their way every single time they don't go their way.

It's like clock work.

He will blame the forwards for not having the results they needed. He'll throw every one of them under the bus.

He will accept no responsibility for the year plus of having a stale and far too simplistic power play.

Whines about the fans desreving better because of a missed offside.

Price gave up a goal in 75 minutes, get 2 and your team wins, instead you sit back and make a team full of small soft offensive players a dump and chase team, while the GM over flows the team with bottom 6 players with middling offensive upside.

Well, to be fair with PK, he's not entirely wrong. TB scored 4 PP goals. At ES it's 2-2. I also think it's something they need to look at and build confidence on. They can look at that and believe they can hang with TB if they stay out of the penalty box.

 

[Brainiac]

Whatever Brad Watson said doesn't matter, the way he pointed his finger at Prust and gave it to him while he was in the box is unacceptable.

Well, it depends.

What if Prust called him a mother****er multiple times and Watson just went there and said "I warned you, I won't tolerate you talking to me like that forever" or something along that. And then Prust says "f-you"?

It's not out of the realm of possibility that maybe he was just being firm talking to a player that crossed the line.

Hence, why I said "IF".

All I'm saying is that you can't rule out Prust being in the wrong there. We'd need the mic's recording to clarify that.

 

[Nynja*]

Well, it depends.

What if Prust called him a mother****er multiple times and Watson just went there and said "I warned you, I won't tolerate you talking to me like that forever" or something along that. And then Prust says "f-you"?

It's not out of the realm of possibility that maybe he was just being firm talking to a player that crossed the line.

Hence, why I said "IF".

All I'm saying is that you can't rule out Prust being in the wrong there. We'd need the mic's recording to clarify that.

Except nothing in the video supports this theory


Wheres Prust at all being visibly upset and yapping and mounting off to Watson?

http://www.rds.ca/vidéos/lightning-6-canadiens-2-3.1133233
40 second mark, I still dont see prust yapping?

If Prust said something before, Watson should have either given him the 2 minutes unsportsmanlike or a 10 minute misconduct when Prust said whatever he said, and be done with it there. Watson should not have gone over to Prust, yell and cuss him out, THEN give him the unsportsmanlike.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Yeah I continue to be confused why people are focusing on what either of them said.

Why was Watson over at the penalty box pointing his finger at Prust?

There's no reason for it.

Whether Prust is telling the truth about Watson said or not is irrelevant as well.

As it is irrelevant whether Prust was being a mouth piece.

 

[sheed36]

Except nothing in the video supports this theory


Wheres Prust at all being visibly upset and yapping and mounting off to Watson?

http://www.rds.ca/vidéos/lightning-6-canadiens-2-3.1133233
40 second mark, I still dont see prust yapping?

If Prust said something before, Watson should have either given him the 2 minutes unsportsmanlike or a 10 minute misconduct when Prust said whatever he said, and be done with it there. Watson should not have gone over to Prust, yell and cuss him out, THEN give him the unsportsmanlike.

Yeah 11 more years of Nick Kypreos and the rest of the Sportsnet "experts" is gonna be torture. Elliotte Friedman is the only intelligent person on the Sportsnet coverage.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Lmao I'm listening to his press conference today, someone from TVA asks him how they'll improve their PK considering Tampa is such a good team at home: "Well we need to improve, but I see a positive here: We can only improve from here". What a clown...

I can't imagine having to put up with this babbling buffoon everyday as a player.

 

[Nynja*]

Oh the PK can get worse. Tampa went 4/8 last game, thats only 50%, theres lots of room for improvement.

 

[AnotherHabsFan]

Is it just me or is this like the opposite of last years playoffs? Everything that could possibly go wrong is going wrong with this team. I just want a quicker exit so that way we can figure out what the **** went wrong and start over for next year.

 

[AnotherHabsFan]

It feels like we are the laughing stock of the league right now and everyone hates us even more than normal.

 

[void]

It feels like we are the laughing stock of the league right now and everyone hates us even more than normal.

We definitely are the laughing stock of the league right now. We're acting just like Bruins.. whining about the refs, losing our composure and acting like brainless neanderthals on the ice, etc. It sucks that Price has to endure this ********. He doesn't deserve this.

 

[Phenom]

Our PP alone is an embarrassment and laughable. Cooper must just be giggling inside him every time we get a PP. The whole world is witnessing this PP debacle. 1 in 28 and we've never witnessed a worst looking and executed PP in the history of the NHL. We're a laughing stock right now..

 

[Daniels45]

We definitely are the laughing stock of the league right now. We're acting just like Bruins.. whining about the refs, losing our composure and acting like brainless neanderthals on the ice, etc. It sucks that Price has to endure this ********. He doesn't deserve this.

You talk like Price is the team. Let me remind you that when the team is not up to par like in game 2, Price cant do **** against a highly skilled team like Tampa !! Its a team game. When price looks good and makes them great saves, its on the team as well like that game 6 against Ottawa. Price is only as good as the team that plays in front of him. Remember that cause it can all go spiraling down if this team loses it like in game 2 for the rest of the series and next season.

Another thing I'd like to put up here. When is the last time the favoured player on our team wasn't a goalie ? What does that say about the state of this team when all hope is always squarely on the head of your starting goalie. Am I the only one thats sick and tired that our best player is ALWAYS the goalie ? That all hope is placed squarely on his shoulders ? Price has won the Molson cup how many times since he has become a hab. What about before Price? Who was winning the molson cup? I dunno but it seems to me that for the longest time, out best player has almost always been a goalie.

 

[ChikN]

You talk like Price is the team. Let me remind you that when the team is not up to par like in game 2, Price cant do **** against a highly skilled team like Tampa !! Its a team game. When price looks good and makes them great saves, its on the team as well like that game 6 against Ottawa. Price is only as good as the team that plays in front of him. Remember that cause it can all go spiraling down if this team loses it like in game 2 for the rest of the series and next season.

Another thing I'd like to put up here. When is the last time the favoured player on our team wasn't a goalie ? What does that say about the state of this team when all hope is always squarely on the head of your starting goalie. Am I the only one thats sick and tired that our best player is ALWAYS the goalie ? That all hope is placed squarely on his shoulders ? Price has won the Molson cup how many times since he has become a hab. What about before Price? Who was winning the molson cup? I dunno but it seems to me that for the longest time, out best player has almost always been a goalie.

I just get depressed watching the other games... Stamkos on a second line, Getzlaf-Perry, Tavares, Ovechkin, Toews, Kane etc.

The only thing I've known as a young habs fan is: Will the goalie steal the game tonight

Oh yeah and that Kovalev season that's pretty much it... I've just came to accept that such players are banned from coming here. I'm fan of a team starting every season with an handicap.

 

[Daniels45]

I'm frustrated and a bit drunk atm so please excuse me if I say stupid ****.

I have a hard time understanding how we can loose 7 straight games against a team like Tampa. Why does a goalie like bishop play hasek like against us every fooking game? How is that possible? Our offensive players have no pride ? No skill ? Where is Patches ? Where is Gallagher ? Where is Plekanecs ? Where is Galchenyuk ? Where is Eller ? Where is Parenteau ?......WHERE IS SUBAN ?

 

[Daniels45]

I just get depressed watching the other games... Stamkos on a second line, Getzlaf-Perry, Tavares, Ovechkin, Toews, Kane etc.

The only thing I've known as a young habs fan is: Will the goalie steal the game tonight

Oh yeah and that Kovalev season that's pretty much it... I've just came to accept that such players are banned from coming here. I'm fan of a team starting every season with an handicap.

I hear ya man. Its what we have had to accept as habs fans since the end of the last great habs dynasty. 86 and 93 were flukes. Everyone knows that. We really haven't had a serious stanely cup contender since 79.

 

[Daniels45]

Theres a reason why we still don't have a captain and thats because no one REALLY stands out as one. No one on this team is a stand out leader and it shows in this series. Patches has been long regarded as the next captain but what has he done in the playoffs? What have our top 6 done in the playoffs for the past 5 years ?

Its always a rebuild with the habs. Always a transition year. Always waiting on players to mature. Always waiting on that perfect mix of skilled players and coaches/management. There always seems to be missing that special player. The one player that will give us what we were missing. Year after year its the same old story. In the meantime, teams like the Bolts are becoming powerhouses again and their closer to winning another stanley cup than the habs are.