Montreal embarrassed by Tampa and themselves (Lose 6-2)

[Daniels45]

Anyways....now that I let out my frustration....heres hoping the habs can finally turn it around and win the next 2 games. I wanna see our top 6 BE OUR TOP 6 !!

 

[ECWHSWI]

Theres a reason why we still don't have a captain and thats because no one REALLY stands out as one. No one on this team is a stand out leader and it shows in this series. Patches has been long regarded as the next captain but what has he done in the playoffs? What have our top 6 done in the playoffs for the past 5 years ?

Its always a rebuild with the habs. Always a transition year. Always waiting on players to mature. Always waiting on that perfect mix of skilled players and coaches/management. There always seems to be missing that special player. The one player that will give us what we were missing. Year after year its the same old story. In the meantime, teams like the Bolts are becoming powerhouses again and their closer to winning another stanley cup than the habs are.

well, every great team has that player at forward, Hawks have Kane/Toews who are not only very good but also clutch, same with Perry/Getzlaf in Ducksland, Datsyuk or Zed in Detroit (although they're getting old now), etc...

here we have Patches, who's great in the reg. season...


it's nice to have some guys who elevate their game in the PO like Eller/Bourque last season, but these guys play on the 3rd line usually (given their skillset and usage, you cant expect them to play every PO like last season PO), they dont have what it takes to carry their team offensively or simply take over a game.

 

[mustardnight*]

Theres a reason why we still don't have a captain and thats because no one REALLY stands out as one. No one on this team is a stand out leader and it shows in this series. Patches has been long regarded as the next captain but what has he done in the playoffs? What have our top 6 done in the playoffs for the past 5 years ?

Its always a rebuild with the habs. Always a transition year. Always waiting on players to mature. Always waiting on that perfect mix of skilled players and coaches/management. There always seems to be missing that special player. The one player that will give us what we were missing. Year after year its the same old story. In the meantime, teams like the Bolts are becoming powerhouses again and their closer to winning another stanley cup than the habs are.

It helps when you draft first and second overall, with a series of high 2nd rounders to boot.

I like your outlook on the habs though, very positive.The team, currently, is well on its way to being the best team we've had since the 80's.

 

[JohnKordicsGhost]

Tampa in 4 straight. #FireTherrien

yup uyp

 

[Habsawce]

I know Therrien isn't getting fired when his new contract kicks in and the team had 110 points. But you have to ask yourself, if he doesn't make any meaningful adjustments to counter Tampa's utter dominance of them on the score sheet, does he really deserve to be in MTL next year?

What's the limit for people? Because the playoffs matter, and while getting into them is important, the team has the best player in the world right now getting them in, not a coach or his system. Yes, I know they went to the ECF last year and are in the 2nd round this year but they've been pretty bad all playoffs and if not for a brutal Sens team, they'd have been out in the 1st round.

 

[Takeru]

I know Therrien isn't getting fired when his new contract kicks in and the team had 110 points. But you have to ask yourself, if he doesn't make any meaningful adjustments to counter Tampa's utter dominance of them on the score sheet, does he really deserve to be in MTL next year?

What's the limit for people? Because the playoffs matter, and while getting into them is important, the team has the best player in the world right now getting them in, not a coach or his system. Yes, I know they went to the ECF last year and are in the 2nd round this year but they've been pretty bad all playoffs and if not for a brutal Sens team, they'd have been out in the 1st round.

Well, considering the Sharks just recently fired their coach after years of great regular season followed by playoffs choking, I guess we can expect Therrien to stay here as long as he keeps making playoffs.

 

[sampollock]

i would sit prust, as this is a big distraction to the team.

fine another way...

he does not help scoring, so bring up someone who is hungry to play

and not DD

 

[Habssince89]

i would sit prust, as this is a big distraction to the team.

fine another way...

he does not help scoring, so bring up someone who is hungry to play

and not DD

It's gonna be DD, though. And I said earlier, at this point DD > prust

 

[Burke the Legend]

I'm not defending the way the Habs played, but that's a bunch of BS. That stuff doesn't usually (and shouldn't) get called in the playoffs. Gallagher took worse than that at least 10 times per game against the Sens.

The problem there is inconsistent officiating. Yes, the Habs played bad in the 2nd and 3rd, but it doesn't help when the rulebook changes all of a sudden.

There was NOTHING inconsistent about that penalty call on P.K Subban. Already Carle & Prust had been called for punching people in the head in scuffles, so what does Subban go do? Cross check a guy on the ground, in the back of the head. Brilliant.

I am a big fan of Subban, he is probably my favourite player in the league to watch, but that decision by him has me questioning his IQ. Of course Tbay scores, with 30 seconds left in period after killing 5:30 straight of penalties, huge mental blow which contributed to further meltdown. a lot of that is on Subban.

 

[Lorty]

I just get depressed watching the other games... Stamkos on a second line, Getzlaf-Perry, Tavares, Ovechkin, Toews, Kane etc.

The only thing I've known as a young habs fan is: Will the goalie steal the game tonight

Oh yeah and that Kovalev season that's pretty much it... I've just came to accept that such players are banned from coming here. I'm fan of a team starting every season with an handicap.

These teams had golden opportunities in their draft years...


Look at our first rounds :

2000 : Ron Hainsey and Marcel Hossa
2001 : Mike Komisarek and Alexander Perezhogin
2002 : Chris Higgins
2003 : Andrei Kostitsyn
2004 : Kyle Chipchura
2005 : Carey Price
2006 : David Fischer (No games in the NHL)
2007 : Ryan McDonagh and Max Pacioretty
2008 : No first round... second round : Danny Kristo (No games in the NHL)
2009 : Louis Leblanc
2010 : Jarred Tinordi
2011 : Nathan Beaulieu
2012 : Alex Galchenyuk



That's three key players in 12 years. Galchenyuk is good, but it was a pretty weak draft. Yeah, we drafted good players in later rounds (Gallagher, Subban, etc), but first rounds are a must for a solid rebuild ala Tampa Bay/Chicago/Anaheim/etc.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

These teams had golden opportunities in their draft years...


Look at our first rounds :

2000 : Ron Hainsey and Marcel Hossa
2001 : Mike Komisarek and Alexander Perezhogin
2002 : Chris Higgins
2003 : Andrei Kostitsyn
2004 : Kyle Chipchura
2005 : Carey Price
2006 : David Fischer (No games in the NHL)
2007 : Ryan McDonagh and Max Pacioretty
2008 : No first round... second round : Danny Kristo (No games in the NHL)
2009 : Louis Leblanc
2010 : Jarred Tinordi
2011 : Nathan Beaulieu
2012 : Alex Galchenyuk



That's three key players in 12 years. Galchenyuk is good, but it was a pretty weak draft. Yeah, we drafted good players in later rounds (Gallagher, Subban, etc), but first rounds are a must for a solid rebuild ala Tampa Bay/Chicago/Anaheim/etc.

First don't rule out Galchenyuk. Its still impossible to know how good he'll get.

Second, its a bit arbitrary to ignore further rounds. The Habs are one of the better drafting team in the league overall. The ''good players'' in later rounds you mentionned Gallagher and especially Subban would have been high, possibly top10, first round picks...

Our first rounders were poor in the early 2000s but that was 10+ years ago, its not really relevant since guys drafted back then have all become free agents since then.

Since 2005 our only real first round busts were Leblanc and Fischer, only two picks... Since then we drafted 2 franchise defensemen, 1 franchise goalie and a solid first line winger, an extremely hard working top6 winger every team would want. Thats excluding the bunch of intriguing prospects we have right now, which I include young de la Rose and Beaulieu who is almost certainly going to be a dependable top4 at least. Oh and a possible future star in Galchenyuk, he'll be at least a decent first line player and is also a top5 pick. So basically we don't have to envy the ''tanking teams'' for their chance at selecting high picks frequently.

All that to say - drafting is the least of our problems for acquiring talent. Handing it away for free in the Gainey/Gauthier era is one problem, coaching another and also not acquiring another top6 forward or two on the trade or free agent markets. Take Price, Subban and McDonagh? They are worth top5 picks (Price being one...). Pacioretty could have been top10, Gallagher too in fact. It sucks we can't have a good team with that (thanks Gainey for McDonagh once again...). The current team is basically : ''one star player at each position, a fairly large amount of good ''plumbers'' but nothing in between. There is nothing on the second line, our third and fourth lines are very dependable defensively but basically interchangable and unable to score. This is the New Jersey Devils with bad coaching.

Somehow I think Jacques Martin would have built a better team with this group. It might even have been more boring to watch!

 

[Nynja*]

I didnt know McDonaugh was a bust...You're blaming the drafting for Gainey trading him away lol. And you're throwing Tinner and Beaulieu under the bus already? damn son

And yeah, we drafted Leblanc because "draft da quebecer". And guess who went next: goalie murderer Chris Kreider.

 

[CupInSIX]

I didnt know McDonaugh was a bust...You're blaming the drafting for Gainey trading him away lol. And you're throwing Tinner and Beaulieu under the bus already? damn son

And yeah, we drafted Leblanc because "draft da quebecer". And guess who went next: goalie murderer Chris Kreider.

I can't believe they picked McDonagh. What a waste of a pick

And somehow drafting Subban in the 2nd round doesn't count. I don't know how but it doesn't count, so give the Norris trophy back.

 

[dmanfish90]

That is roughly 7 million in cap space tied up to these two players. Add the 4.5 to PAP, the 3.5 to DD,the 5 to Plekanec, the 4.5 to Gonchar, and you have a recipe for disaster. That is roughly 24 million on players who are not performing or under-performing, almost 40% of the salary cap.

I could care less about the regular season. A fifty win season is nice, but I want a Cup. That is all that matters to me. I feel, however, we are so much farther away than our regular season indicates. The top-six is Buffalo-esque and the D is slightly above middle of the road. Price is the ONLY reason we are in this position. Add to that a coaching staff taken from the refuse bin of hockey broadcasting and you have a recipe for playoff disaster. Once the smoke and mirrors are gone we see this team for what it truly is, a bottom-feeder. Shades of 2002.

I like this post, except that I don't (i know it's a contradiction).

What I like:

The breakdown of the cap spent on some players (like PAP, DD) could've been spent elsewhere. Either way, this year, we spent an extra 500K on a guy who scored 22 PTS in 56 GP for a guy who scored 25 PTS in 69 GP. Not a big deal. Problem is we have another 4.5M on the books for another season (really great idea, MB...)

What I don't like:

The whole nature of the post seems...complainy. Not saying you're complaining im saying this post is. Also, Tomas Plekanec at 5M per year and is a top 10 two way centreman in the NHL is an ABSOLUTE STEAL. Never call Plekasex a part of a "disaster" SVP. Also, I have some statistical proof over the past 7 years that backs this notion. DD is an ok top 6, but should be playing 2 LW and not 1 C. I think this has been discussed before in another thread. Gonchar was a great deal, getting 1.8M in Moen off the books and I believe we may have gotten a pick as well. Sergei's 4 or so million in cap will come off the books next season.

I'll agree w/ everything else though (especially about Price)

 

[LaP]

These teams had golden opportunities in their draft years...


Look at our first rounds :

2000 : Ron Hainsey and Marcel Hossa
2001 : Mike Komisarek and Alexander Perezhogin
2002 : Chris Higgins
2003 : Andrei Kostitsyn
2004 : Kyle Chipchura
2005 : Carey Price
2006 : David Fischer (No games in the NHL)
2007 : Ryan McDonagh and Max Pacioretty
2008 : No first round... second round : Danny Kristo (No games in the NHL)
2009 : Louis Leblanc
2010 : Jarred Tinordi
2011 : Nathan Beaulieu
2012 : Alex Galchenyuk



That's three key players in 12 years. Galchenyuk is good, but it was a pretty weak draft. Yeah, we drafted good players in later rounds (Gallagher, Subban, etc), but first rounds are a must for a solid rebuild ala Tampa Bay/Chicago/Anaheim/etc.

That's 4 key players. It's not Timmins fault if we gifted McDo to NYR.

 

[Lorty]

Alright, don't get me wrong, we had good drafts for our drafting positions. What I meant is, we weren't in position to draft game-changing franchise forwards/centers in the last years.

I quoted this :

I just get depressed watching the other games... Stamkos on a second line, Getzlaf-Perry, Tavares, Ovechkin, Toews, Kane etc.

The only thing I've known as a young habs fan is: Will the goalie steal the game tonight

Oh yeah and that Kovalev season that's pretty much it... I've just came to accept that such players are banned from coming here. I'm fan of a team starting every season with an handicap.

Stamkos, Tavares, Ovechkin, Getzlaf-Perry, Toews, Kane... we do not have these players because we weren't in position to get them. That's my point.


We CAN win the cup with that kind of roster/draft, but we don't have that franchise elite player ChikN is talking about for a reason. Players like Stamkos don't come up 20th in the first round.

 

[LaP]

I can't believe they picked McDonagh. What a waste of a pick

And somehow drafting Subban in the 2nd round doesn't count. I don't know how but it doesn't count, so give the Norris trophy back.

Specially since it was in the first half of the 2nd round. He is a 43th pick.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

Alright, don't get me wrong, we had good drafts for our drafting positions. What I meant is, we weren't in position to draft game-changing franchise forwards/centers in the last years.

I quoted this :




Stamkos, Tavares, Ovechkin, Getzlaf-Perry, Toews, Kane... we do not have these players because we weren't in position to get them. That's my point.


We CAN win the cup with that kind of roster/draft, but we don't have that franchise elite player ChikN is talking about for a reason. Players like Stamkos don't come up 20th in the first round.

Price and Subban are in the same ballpark as these guys. Well maybe not Stamkos, Tavares and Ovechkin and these are the ones that have NOT won a Stanley Cup... It doesn't matter were the player is picked, only the result counts. Look at Subban and Price's drafts and you'll only find a couple players that would have been better choices regardless of draft position. For Price? Crosby maybe Kopitar. For Subban? Kane I guess, or Jamie Benn. Even Gallagher is top10 in points in his draft year.

 

[dmanfish90]

Can't give any goalie credit besides your own I guess. I guess Bishop has been lucky the Habs have been flat all series huh? LMAO

Combination of the team not being good and the goalie making timely saves.

We've outshot them so far 73-59. So what's your definition of "flat"

 

[Nynja*]

Alright, don't get me wrong, we had good drafts for our drafting positions. What I meant is, we weren't in position to draft game-changing franchise forwards/centers in the last years.

I quoted this :




Stamkos, Tavares, Ovechkin, Getzlaf-Perry, Toews, Kane... we do not have these players because we weren't in position to get them. That's my point.


We CAN win the cup with that kind of roster/draft, but we don't have that franchise elite player ChikN is talking about for a reason. Players like Stamkos don't come up 20th in the first round.

I dont get what your point is then. You made a huge list of our "draft busts", and now change your tune to "we just didnt get good franchise players". The only time you'll realistically get a franchise player is in the top 3. The only time we had a top 3 involved Yakupov and Ryan Murray going ahead of Chucky. The best player from that draft was probably Forsberg, who was drafted 11th, and was already traded once (for Erat LOL) to boot.

Do you know who else we got? Pacioretty, who is in the top 5 of 5v5 scorers in the league in the past 3 or so seasons. We got Subban, who is a top 5 D in the league. We got Price, who is the best goaltender in the world right now.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

Oh one thing about last game... I hope the Habs watched carefully while Tampa was setting up these genuinely sweet PP goals and learned. I REALLY HOPE THEY WATCHED. That or they need to start gracefully refusing PP opportunities.

 

[Lorty]

I dont get what your point is then. You made a huge list of our "draft busts", and now change your tune to "we just didnt get good franchise players". The only time you'll realistically get a franchise player is in the top 3. The only time we had a top 3 involved Yakupov and Ryan Murray going ahead of Chucky. The best player from that draft was probably Forsberg, who was drafted 11th, and was already traded once (for Erat LOL) to boot.

Do you know who else we got? Pacioretty, who is in the top 5 of 5v5 scorers in the league in the past 3 or so seasons. We got Subban, who is a top 5 D in the league. We got Price, who is the best goaltender in the world right now.

Well, I got overboard with my simple explanation to why we don't have 1+ PPG players like Stamkos or Ovechkin, I agree.

 

[sampollock]

hard to win in this day and age of NHL, with no scoring

 

[dmanfish90]

And are somebody really pissed about what Watson said to Prust? When players continuously lack respect towards the refs and call them themselves idiots. Mr. Prust didn't like to be called piece of ****? Get real Brendan and play hockey instead of whining....It's embarassing that he's trying to find reasons why he looked stupid.

WS you're a little out to lunch.

What's the job of the officiating? To call the game with integrity and impartiality and neither of those things happened two nights ago. Prust has every right to be upset. He didn't play like garbage. He got penalized for a call that is RARELY called in the playoffs. Dale Weise got clipped or kneed in the 3rd, wasn't called. NHL has a history of having an officiating crew that is inconsistent, partisan/not impartial, and calls the game with no integrity frequently.

If I was Brandon, I would've called the head of officiating and complained that way, not to the media. But what's done is done...

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

We've outshot them so far 73-59. So what's your definition of "flat"

Did you watch the games?