Speculation: Monahan forward most likely dealt first

[SwordSlash666]

It's gonna be a first round pick or a second round pick + something else. Almost no way around that. Not sure why there's 27 pages when this is almost the only two ways it could end up.

You may like the player or not, underrate him or not, it's not the point. If you don't get that Monahan can get a first in the right circumstance, I don't know what to tell you. Way way weirder things have happen. I think it's almost 50-50 between a first and a second + something.

Is a first an overpay? Probably, but it's almost always like that at the TDL. Monahan can sure help a team in the right chair. He's a very good player to have in your top 9 and can move up and down the lineup.

 

[Double Dion]

He's being compared to all 32, not just the top few.

But the comparison isn't the point, the performance is. He is underperforming vs his usage & linemates, whereas Monahan largely has outperformed his.

Performance.
Context.
Cap implications.
Fit/Need.

Variables teams pay more attention to than casual fans, and why every deadline leaves a lot of crow to be eaten by fans so certain that their superficial assessment reflects how teams actually evaluate value.

Id expect Lindholm to get more in return, but no where near the BMW/Toyota value gap assessment I was responding to.

We'll see. Happy to eat crow if the trades prove otherwise

Who do you think Lindholm plays with? Gaudreau and Tkachuk are gone. Our best winger is Blake Coleman and he plays with Backlund. Huberdeau might be the worst player on our team overall, he's not a benefit to play with.

 

[Miller Time]

Who do you think Lindholm plays with? Gaudreau and Tkachuk are gone. Our best winger is Blake Coleman.

Making outlandish claims to try to make your bad take stick is not a good tactic

 

[Double Dion]

Making outlandish claims to try to make your bad take stick is not a good tactic

Blake Coleman is our best winger. It's not even close. He's elite defensively and is on pace for 35 goals. Who do you think is better?

 

[Miller Time]

Blake Coleman is our best winger. It's not even close. He's elite defensively and is on pace for 35 goals. Who do you think is better?

The gap btw Coleman, Rango, Huberdeau, Mangiapane is negligible at best, even with Coleman's career anomalous sh %... And any of the above are better than the options Monahan has rotated through all year, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make

Then there's the defense... And Kadri/Backlund as the other C's opponents have to deal with.

Suzuki - Monahan - Evans - Suzuki... That's the Habs C depth of late lol

Bottom line. We'll. See.

Hope you're just as willing to eat crow when the time comes

 

[Double Dion]

The gap btw Coleman, Rango, Huberdeau, Mangiapane is negligible at best, even with Coleman's career anomalous sh %... And any of the above are better than the options Monahan has rotated through all year, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make

Then there's the defense...

Bottom line. We'll. See.

Hope you're just as willing to eat crow when the time comes

Huberdeau is worse substantially than any player Monahan has played with. He's one of the worst wingers in the entire leage.

If you think the gap between Coleman and Huberdeau/Mangiapane is negligible you just revealed your ignorance. Sharangovich has been good. Mangiapane has played with a bottom sixer and Huberdeau is the worst player on a bad team both analytically and by the eye test.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Other than monahan being a center who can win some faceoffs, hes really got non of the attributes of a playoff warrior type that gets overpaid for. Its really just a granlund type trade.

Montreal fans setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[pth2]

Other than monahan being a center who can win some faceoffs, hes really got non of the attributes of a playoff warrior type that gets overpaid for. Its really just a granlund type trade.

Montreal fans setting themselves up for disappointment.

Meh. I think many of those loudly saying a 1st is *possible* are just overreacting to offers for 4th rounders...

At his salary, a lot of teams will be able to bid on him, and I can't imagine he won't fetch a 2nd from one of them.

 

[CAUFIELD]

I think you'll be lucky to get a 3rd for him. He's just not a player who helps you win. He's getting absolutely destroyed at 5 on 5. Playoff hockey is played mostly at 5 on 5. It's hard to hide a guy who needs top 9 minutes in the playoffs. Teams will exploit that matchup.

You evaluation of a player’s value at TDL is clearly way off. A 3rd round pick for a Center capable of 50 points + really cheap contract under 2m$ is clearly worth more than a 3rd.

 

[HabsForHire]

He didnt just lose a foot race. He was smoked by a 36 year old who isnt even known for his speed.

His skating was already being questioned before that.

ok fine, he's still worth a late 1st

 

[Miller Time]

Huberdeau is worse substantially than any player Monahan has played with. He's one of the worst wingers in the entire leage.

If you think the gap between Coleman and Huberdeau/Mangiapane is negligible you just revealed your ignorance. Sharangovich has been good. Mangiapane has played with a bottom sixer and Huberdeau is the worst player on a bad team both analytically and by the eye test.

you clearly don't/haven't watched any habs games this year.

I follow Calgary quite closely actually, and don't share your assessments in the least bit.

a player not pulling their weight cap-wise, as Huberdeau (and to a lesser extent early in the year, Mangiapane) has failed to do since arriving in Calgary is different than a player unable to perform at an NHL top-9, let alone top-6 level.

no point arguing further. 5 weeks from now, assuming both get moved, we'll see what the market had to say about Lindholm's value and Monahan's value. I maintain that it will not be a significant difference, and certainly not 2x or 3x as is the value difference btw a corolla and a BMW

 

[John Mandalorian]

ok fine, he's still worth a late 1st

Not based on fans. Fans of other teams dont seem very interested.

 

[Walksss]

Not based on fans. Fans of other teams dont seem very interested.

It doesn't matter what you think or any other fan thinks, that's the reality. For someone who posts in this thread every 7 minutes you don't seem to understand the very basic concept of supply and demand.

Your BMW vs Corolla example is off by an order or magnitude. In this case there is only one BMW and then after that only one 'Corolla'. After that its a fairly steep drop off and then you're scrounging around for stolen bicycles on Kijiji to find a way to work. Does that make sense?

After the BMW sells, the factory can't produce another one, so inherently the price of the Corolla and even the bicycles goes up. It doesn't really matter that the Corolla isn't worth that in a vacuum, it is worth what the market dictates at that specific point in time when demand is peaking.

This is the exact same principle that runs value in all commodities and enterprise across the globe, do you really think a Micky Mantle rookie card is worth over $12 million dollars in a vacuum? Obviously not. Extreme example but there are quite literally millions of others.

Secondly everyone on these boards massively overrates late first round picks. Any pick at 25+ is like a 40% chance of ever making the NHL. Then when they finally do they'll barely be an impact player and worth very little on the open market as trade bait or eventually a FA. And thats in like 5-6 years from now. GMs don't care about that very much, bored internet posters do.

GMs that feel they have a chance of making a push will only bid on the available players, which is shaping up to a tight market. Guess what that means for value? One team will get a BMW and then one team will get a Corolla, its just that you seem like you want to scrounge for some bicycles and thats fine man, just dress appropriately for the weather.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

ok fine, he's still worth a late 1st

Prepare to be disappointed. It'll be a mid-late 2nd.

Meh. I think many of those loudly saying a 1st is *possible* are just overreacting to offers for 4th rounders...

At his salary, a lot of teams will be able to bid on him, and I can't imagine he won't fetch a 2nd from one of them.

Which is the granlund trade so thats about right.

 

[John Mandalorian]

It doesn't matter what you think or any other fan thinks, that's the reality. For someone who posts in this thread every 7 minutes you don't seem to understand the very basic concept of supply and demand.

Your BMW vs Corolla example is off by an order or magnitude. In this case there is only one BMW and then after that only one 'Corolla'. After that its a fairly steep drop off and then you're scrounging around for stolen bicycles on Kijiji to find a way to work. Does that make sense?

After the BMW sells, the factory can't produce another one, so inherently the price of the Corolla and even the bicycles goes up. It doesn't really matter that the Corolla isn't worth that in a vacuum, it is worth what the market dictates at that specific point in time when demand is peaking.

This is the exact same principle that runs value in all commodities and enterprise across the globe, do you really think a Micky Mantle rookie card is worth over $12 million dollars in a vacuum? Obviously not. Extreme example but there are quite literally millions of others.

Secondly everyone on these boards massively overrates late first round picks. Any pick at 25+ is like a 40% chance of ever making the NHL. Then when they finally do they'll barely be an impact player and worth very little on the open market as trade bait or eventually a FA. And thats in like 5-6 years from now. GMs don't care about that very much, bored internet posters do.

GMs that feel they have a chance of making a push will only bid on the available players, which is shaping up to a tight market. Guess what that means for value? One team will get a BMW and then one team will get a Corolla, its just that you seem like you want to scrounge for some bicycles and thats fine man, just dress appropriately for the weather.

It does matter what fans think. Hockey is a niche sport in a lot of places. Such a silly comment.

Another silly comment in your tedious commentary on supply and demand. Its only in demand if people want it. Theres a difference between perceived need and actual need. Canadian media seems to conflate the two. They also really seem to be propagandizing Monahans price as being the same as his value. But theres a difference. And in considering actual vs perceived need, its fair that one asks, "does this acquisition address an actual need". If the answer to that question is no, theres really no reason for another corolla, is there? It can be binary and not about a lesser substitute.

 

[Miller Time]

It does matter what fans think. Hockey is a niche sport in a lot of places. Such a silly comment.

Another silly comment in your tedious commentary on supply and demand. Its only in demand if people want it. Theres a difference between perceived need and actual need. Canadian media seems to conflate the two. They also really seem to be propagandizing Monahans price as being the same as his value. But theres a difference. And in considering actual vs perceived need, its fair that one asks, "does this acquisition address an actual need". If the answer to that question is no, theres really no reason for another corolla, is there? It can be binary and not about a lesser substitute.

Is this your first trade deadline?

Sounds like it by how far out of touch with reality your examples are in this thread.

So odd...

 

[John Mandalorian]

Is this your first trade deadline?

Sounds like it by how far out of touch with reality your examples are in this thread.

So odd...

No. But its amusing that failed trades from the past are used to justify bad trades and acquisitions today. As if its a good idea to intentional repeat past mistakes.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

I hope someone pays a 1st for Monahan, that'll just up the value of Lindholm even more!

I'd guess if Montreal can get a 2nd & stuff, they'll take it.

 

[Miller Time]

No. But its amusing that failed trades from the past are used to justify bad trades and acquisitions today. As if its a good idea to intentional repeat past mistakes.

Amusing is posts by people who think their ungrounded assessments offer more likely outcomes than the historical record.

I don't believe that there has been a trade deadline on record that hasn't left to trades with bad outcomes for some teams. What a silly argument to make.

 

[Walksss]

It does matter what fans think. Hockey is a niche sport in a lot of places. Such a silly comment.

Another silly comment in your tedious commentary on supply and demand. Its only in demand if people want it. Theres a difference between perceived need and actual need. Canadian media seems to conflate the two. They also really seem to be propagandizing Monahans price as being the same as his value. But theres a difference. And in considering actual vs perceived need, its fair that one asks, "does this acquisition address an actual need". If the answer to that question is no, theres really no reason for another corolla, is there? It can be binary and not about a lesser substitute.

My word man how are you this dense? What do you do for a living to miss the point so effectively? This will be my last post because either you are intentionally missing the point or you are unable intellectually to get the concept. I don't care which it is.

Obviously Monahan can help a team win. He's on pace for 50+ points and no, I don't care about your posts discussing why those points don't count.

To score 50 points at the NHL level is difficult and you need talent to do it, I hope that much is obvious but with you, who knows. To do that on a cheap contract in a tight market for players with a tight salary cap on top of it makes that quality more attractive and more valuable; hopefully you're still with me here cause it's not really debatable. Thus if there are teams looking for depth scoring with a guy who can play up and down the lineup they will have to pay the highest market price in order to win the bid.

However of course a team will offer according to need? What is it you're even posting about? Do you think you're educating people by saying if a team isn't looking for depth scoring at the deadline they won't offer for Monahan? Like what the actual...

That's the same as saying Chicago has no need for Monahan, like thanks Mr. Mandalorian, I'm really glad I took part in this discussion today.

The floor for a healthy Monahan is gonna be a 2nd+. It's fairly likely somebody pays more. And no your opinion of it does not matter.

 

[John Mandalorian]

My word man how are you this dense? What do you do for a living to miss the point so effectively? This will be my last post because either you are intentionally missing the point or you are unable intellectually to get the concept. I don't care which it is.

Obviously Monahan can help a team win. He's on pace for 50+ points and no, I don't care about your posts discussing why those points don't count.

To score 50 points at the NHL level is difficult and you need talent to do it, I hope that much is obvious but with you, who knows. To do that on a cheap contract in a tight market for players with a tight salary cap on top of it makes that quality more attractive and more valuable; hopefully you're still with me here cause it's not really debatable. Thus if there are teams looking for depth scoring with a guy who can play up and down the lineup they will have to pay the highest market price in order to win the bid.

However of course a team will offer according to need? What is it you're even posting about? Do you think you're educating people by saying if a team isn't looking for depth scoring at the deadline they won't offer for Monahan? Like what the actual...

That's the same as saying Chicago has no need for Monahan, like thanks Mr. Mandalorian, I'm really glad I took part in this discussion today.

The floor for a healthy Monahan is gonna be a 2nd+. It's fairly likely somebody pays more. And no your opinion of it does not matter.

Look through the thread. Pretty much all of this has been debunked at various times.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The gap btw Coleman, Rango, Huberdeau, Mangiapane is negligible at best, even with Coleman's career anomalous sh %... And any of the above are better than the options Monahan has rotated through all year, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make

Then there's the defense... And Kadri/Backlund as the other C's opponents have to deal with.

Suzuki - Monahan - Evans - Suzuki... That's the Habs C depth of late lol

Bottom line. We'll. See.

Hope you're just as willing to eat crow when the time comes

Did you just compare Huberdeau to Sharangovich? I guess now I understand why you think Monahan is good.

 

[HuGort]

I hope someone pays a 1st for Monahan, that'll just up the value of Lindholm even more!

I'd guess if Montreal can get a 2nd & stuff, they'll take it.

Habs holding out for a first. If Eve of deadline they may have to take a 2nd+

 

[LeapOnOver]

Monahan to the Isles for Pageau and 2 of Bolduc or Aho/Wahlstrom/2nd round pick.

Habs get a responsible vet with the right last name and future pieces. Isles get a better match for what they need on an expiring contract and some cap room.

 

[Romang67]

For what it's worth, I agree with the notion that Monahan can, and should, play down the lineup. It's the up part that makes me question whether it's worth spending a 2nd on him.