Speculation: Monahan forward most likely dealt first

[General Fanager]

He's just not a playoff guy. Some guys elevate. Some stay the same. Some get worse.

Largely the critics were that he was soft and lost puck battles at key times while getting beat head to head when it mattered most and often scoring meaningless points when the game was already decided.

It's also an injury risk thing - don't pretend no one watching can't see that he's taking practices off, and all of Habs Nation is terrified he gets injured before he gets traded. Everyone looking is terrified they trade for him and then he gets injured. He's made of glass.



I feel like those graphs make the argument for you - the overalls are skewed but for my 3rd liner I want the guy whose better defensively and in transition over finishing talent any day.

I can't imagine looking at those graphs as a contender and wanting Monahan over Lindholm.

I am not suggesting that anyone should want one over the other. I am simply saying that they both have value. Guys in this thread and others have said Monahan is worthless and Lindholm is highly valued. The numbers show differently

 

[Hunter368]

Iam not suggesting that anyone should want one over the other. I am simply saying that they both have value.

100% agree, both have value. I think a buyer will have to determine which is the best fit for them, factoring everything in about the player (cap, skill set, durability, return value, etc).

 

[ole ole]

I stated “comparatively cheaply” vs a high end 2C which is what the Jets are rumoured to be after, anyone taking offence to that statement is being a bit hyper sensitive unless you consider Monahan a top end 2C in the NHL. If anyone thinks that, well I wouldn’t even reply to their comments bc it’s pointless.

I don't think anyone would consider Monahan a top end 2C. He could be a lower end 2nd C with great faceoff skills. Pretty good on the PP also.
We all understand about the health issue but if by trade deadline he still is playing the way he has been then he could be pretty valuable to a contender.

100% agree, both have value. I think a buyer will have to determine which is the best fit for them, factoring everything in about the player (cap, skill set, durability, return value, etc).

100% agree.

 

[John Mandalorian]

36 year old Giroux just out raced Monahan to the puck. Did anyone else see that?

Was Monahan well into a shift or is he THAT slow?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

36 year old Giroux just out raced Monahan to the puck. Did anyone else see that?

Was Monahan well into a shift or is he THAT slow?

They were both about 25 seconds into the shift.

 

[John Mandalorian]

They were both about 25 seconds into the shift

So much for excuses then.

 

[CAUFIELD]

market value for Monahan is a 2nd + B prospect to me

He might reach a late 1st value if he keeps playing well , stays healthy , and depending on the demand for Centers

 

[HuGort]

market value for Monahan is a 2nd + B prospect to me

He might reach a late 1st value if he keeps playing well , stays healthy , and depending on the demand for Centers

Basically right. But no harm in holding out for Chiarot type return.

I have hunch Monahan ends up in Winnipeg for our second back and a decent prospect but not a high end one.

 

[StewieP19]

The return will probably be a first due to Lindholm effect.
teams will lose Lindholm derby will passing to B or C Plan and it's to Montréal to take advantage.

 

[John Mandalorian]

The return will probably be a first due to Lindholm effect.
teams will lose Lindholm derby will passing to B or C Plan and it's to Montréal to take advantage.

Lindholm Effect? What!?

If you're interested in a BMW but then decide its too much, are you then going to want to pay the same or almost the same for a toyota when cost was the very reason you chose not to go for the BMW?

That's some bizarre logic.

 

[HabsAddict]

I'm not understanding one bit of logic here...

Demanding that others accept that Monahan is worth less, then launch into multi post arguments he should be traded for whatever you like.

Wouldn't it be simpler to say that a player is worth x-amount in your eyes or no deal and move on?

Just saying...

 

[StewieP19]

Lindholm Effect? What!?

If you're interested in a BMW but then decide its too much, are you then going to want to pay the same or almost the same for a toyota when cost was the very reason you chose not to go for the BMW?

That's some bizarre logic.

Every year some GM Panic when they lose their no1 target and overpay to get another players
I Know that's not the real value but History talk

 

[pth2]

Every year some GM Panic when they lose their no1 target and overpay to get another players
I Know that's not the real value but History talk

I always figured this is how the Habs lost McDonaugh: he was on the table for a Lecavalier deal, management got used to the idea of moving him for a #1 center.... and when that deal fell apart, and they went for Gomez instead (who didn't hold the same kind of value), they still had McD as available, even though he shouldn't have been required to get that deal done.

Basically right. But no harm in holding out for Chiarot type return.

I have hunch Monahan ends up in Winnipeg for our second back and a decent prospect but not a high end one.

Well, holding out for a 1st for now is fine, but when other trades get made and the market gets set, you have to re-evaluate.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Paying anything high for Monohan would scare me with his injury history. Same with a Tanev.

Lindholm? Who knows what a team will be getting. Guy is in a contract year and looks like sh** most of the time. Soft, non play driver, ghosts most games.

He needs guys to set him up or he is useless.

 

[HabsForHire]

So much for excuses then.

Monahan has been playing great....oh no he lost a foot race lmao
you can easily get a late 1st for him.. ..waaaay worse players have returned waaaay more

 

[Miller Time]

Lindholm Effect? What!?

If you're interested in a BMW but then decide its too much, are you then going to want to pay the same or almost the same for a toyota when cost was the very reason you chose not to go for the BMW?

That's some bizarre logic.

with both players UFAs to be, and Monahan performing as well, if not better, than Lindholm this season, I'm not sure where/how you arrive at a BMW/Toyota comparison.

from a deadline acquisition perspective, their respective value right now is going to be tied to their current level of play, contract situation, and fit within the rosters of the suitors.

we'll see, but I suspect the trade return will be far closer than posters like yourself think.

 

[John Mandalorian]

with both players UFAs to be, and Monahan performing as well, if not better, than Lindholm this season, I'm not sure where/how you arrive at a BMW/Toyota comparison.

from a deadline acquisition perspective, their respective value right now is going to be tied to their current level of play, contract situation, and fit within the rosters of the suitors.

we'll see, but I suspect the trade return will be far closer than posters like yourself think.

Probably the only group of people that sees it this way is a large subset of Habs fans. And of course, its fair to point out the obvious reason for it.

 

[Miller Time]

Probably the only group of people that sees it this way is a large subset of Habs fans. And of course, its fair to point out the obvious reason for it.

And those who follow hockey analytics.

We'll see how it turns out.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Monahan has been playing great....oh no he lost a foot race lmao
you can easily get a late 1st for him.. ..waaaay worse players have returned waaaay more

He didnt just lose a foot race. He was smoked by a 36 year old who isnt even known for his speed.

His skating was already being questioned before that.

 

[Double Dion]

market value for Monahan is a 2nd + B prospect to me

He might reach a late 1st value if he keeps playing well , stays healthy , and depending on the demand for Centers

I think you'll be lucky to get a 3rd for him. He's just not a player who helps you win. He's getting absolutely destroyed at 5 on 5. Playoff hockey is played mostly at 5 on 5. It's hard to hide a guy who needs top 9 minutes in the playoffs. Teams will exploit that matchup.

 

[Double Dion]

with both players UFAs to be, and Monahan performing as well, if not better, than Lindholm this season, I'm not sure where/how you arrive at a BMW/Toyota comparison.

from a deadline acquisition perspective, their respective value right now is going to be tied to their current level of play, contract situation, and fit within the rosters of the suitors.

we'll see, but I suspect the trade return will be far closer than posters like yourself think.

Monahan gives up over 10 more shots against than Lindholm does per 60. Lindholm is the best PKer in the league. Monahan has 17 even strength points. Lindholm see's the 2nd hardest minutes on his team. Monahan see's the easiest minutes of any Habs regular. He's not playing even in the same league as Lindholm.

 

[Miller Time]

Monahan gives up over 10 more shots against than Lindholm does per 60. Lindholm is the best PKer in the league. Monahan has 17 even strength points. Lindholm see's the 2nd hardest minutes on his team. Monahan see's the easiest minutes of any Habs regular. He's not playing even in the same league as Lindholm.

Who has Lindholm played with this year?
Who has Monahan played with?

Context matters (at least to some scouting departments).

Here's one statistical review of lindholm this season...

Elias Lindholm is one of the worst-performing top line centres in the NHL - The Win Column

Comparing Elias Lindholm to other first line centres in the NHL to see where his traditional and analytical stats have him ranked.

thewincolumn.ca

"Lindholm is underwater, by a significant margin, in every single possession metric. It’s mind-boggling that a player who was widely considered to be one of the league’s premier two-way centres has been run over this hard all season long.

Lindholm is ranked 28th out of 32 in shot share, 31st in scoring chance share, 25th in high-danger chance share, and 30th in expected goals share.

Consistently, Lindholm allows more shots, more scoring chances, and more high-danger chances than he creates. This isn’t even close to what you’d expect from a Selke Trophy calibre player. Simply put, he’s not in that echelon at all, at least this season."

 

[HuGort]

The return will probably be a first due to Lindholm effect.
teams will lose Lindholm derby will passing to B or C Plan and it's to Montréal to take advantage.

See what Lindholm returns first. If he is traded for a first pick alone, Monahan probably return a 2nd. About half of Lindholm. If Lindholm is trade for a first and high end prospect, Monahan fetches about a first.

 

[Double Dion]

Who has Lindholm played with this year?
Who has Monahan played with?

Context matters (at least to some scouting departments).

Here's one statistical review of lindholm this season...

Elias Lindholm is one of the worst-performing top line centres in the NHL - The Win Column

Comparing Elias Lindholm to other first line centres in the NHL to see where his traditional and analytical stats have him ranked.

thewincolumn.ca

"Lindholm is underwater, by a significant margin, in every single possession metric. It’s mind-boggling that a player who was widely considered to be one of the league’s premier two-way centres has been run over this hard all season long.

Lindholm is ranked 28th out of 32 in shot share, 31st in scoring chance share, 25th in high-danger chance share, and 30th in expected goals share.

Consistently, Lindholm allows more shots, more scoring chances, and more high-danger chances than he creates. This isn’t even close to what you’d expect from a Selke Trophy calibre player. Simply put, he’s not in that echelon at all, at least this season."

He's being compared to 1st line centers. Players like McDavid, Crosby, Barkov, Mackinnon, Eichel, Matthews Pettersson, Aho, ect. Monahan is underwater playing 4th line players, not elite competition. The comparison is between 1Cs. Monahan is getting caved by 4Cs. Do you think playing against McDavid or Draisaitl is the same as playing against Derek Ryan?

 

[Miller Time]

He's being compared to 1st line centers. Players like McDavid, Crosby, Barkov, Mackinnon, Eichel, Matthews Pettersson, Aho, ect. Monahan is underwater playing 4th line players, not elite competition. The comparison is between 1Cs. Monahan is getting caved by 4Cs. Do you think playing against McDavid or Draisaitl is the same as playing against Derek Ryan?

He's being compared to all 32, not just the top few.

But the comparison isn't the point, the performance is. He is underperforming vs his usage & linemates, whereas Monahan largely has outperformed his.

Performance.
Context.
Cap implications.
Fit/Need.

Variables teams pay more attention to than casual fans, and why every deadline leaves a lot of crow to be eaten by fans so certain that their superficial assessment reflects how teams actually evaluate value.

Id expect Lindholm to get more in return, but no where near the BMW/Toyota value gap assessment I was responding to.

We'll see. Happy to eat crow if the trades prove otherwise