Fire MacFarland eh? Fair whether “fans” right there. Bro because he swung and missed with one or two additions with uncertainty around Landeskog and the other alcoholics on the team, it’s fire macfarland? Yikes no wonder he’s the GM and you idiots are on a forum page
Speculation: Monahan forward most likely dealt first
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John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
- Nov 29, 2018
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And yet Andrew Copp was traded for more. It's almost like players are traded for more than their point profile.
HabsAddict
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- Feb 27, 2002
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Back when Markov had knee problems i thought that was the end of his career. Yet he came back and several good season including 3 full seasons.
From the looks of his play alone, i say that he may have put those injuries into the past.
Modern medicine at it's very best...
From the looks of his play alone, i say that he may have put those injuries into the past.
Modern medicine at it's very best...
Hunter368
Global Moderator
- Nov 8, 2011
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Indeed, other GM's are aware of that as well as Monahan sitting out of practices through the year. Everyone knows why he's sitting out of practices. One poster today said in his post whatever team trades for Monahan won't regret it.........there is a strong reason & history to believe they will strongly regret it if he gets injured again. For those who say injuries can happen to anyone, that is true, but history has proven they happen to Monahan at a much higher rate then your average player. Monahan has a lot of warts when he's healthy, plus he does some thing well........but risk of injury is significant with him.
I'm guessing the return on him will be:
- Lower return (a couple mid ranged picks/prospects), no trade conditions based on his health/games played
- Higher return (late 1st rd pick), high degree of trade conditions based on his health/games played which reduces the return if he misses too many games. His injury risk is very high especially in the playoffs where play only gets more physical & players will target him.
- No retention required in any situation
MardyBum
Registered User
I don't understand the hypothesis that Monahan shouldn't be on a contender's second line. "if Monahan is your second-line centreman then you're not a contender.
I won't even use Vancouver as an example because Vancouver actually had pettersson and JT miller on separate lines for the majority of the season, so we can suddenly go back to that system.
I will use Boston Winnipeg and Colorado. These 3 teams are one of the best teams in the NHL. currently one of the few contenders in the league. So if they added Monahan to their team they are suddenly not contenders?
right now Monahan has more points than Colorado's next highest centermans. 27 year old Ross Colton on paper in Colorado's second-line centerman, has 23 points.
Winnipeg's second line centerman has as many points as Monahan.
Sean Monahan also has more points than Boston's second-line Winnipeg and Colorado's current second-line centerman, but those teams are contenders.
Sean Monahan would be an excellent addition (without moving any current roster pieces) to any of these teams at the moment and it wouldn't change their positions of not suddenly being contenders. For Vancouver, if we do Lotto line our way, then we can have a legit proven second-line centerman in Monahan center it. If not, we can move Monahan as a winger too. Lots of options. MY point is, Monahan will be an ok second-line centerman for many of the top 10 teams, and I used 3 examples. Well, 4 including Vancouver.
Edit
I'm gonna look at 3 more teams. Last year's Cup finalists.
Vegas knights. their second line centerman has 26 points. Monahan also has more points than him.
Florida panthers, damn, , their top 3 centermans have over 45 points.
Rangers top 2 centermans ok, they are very productive.
Flayers second-line centerman holy cow he only has 20 points.
He will be a welcomed addition for many many playoff-bound teams.
Can't speak to other teams, but let's talk about the Jets.
All of Scheifele, Lowry, and Namestnikov are currently more productive at 5v5. Lowry gets 2nd line minutes and hard matchups, so the "2C" spot is generally the 3rd in minutes, even if they're much better offensively.
A lot of us think we need an upgrade on Namestnikov to compete and add proven C depth.
Monahan this year isn't an upgrade on Namestnikov, because even if you make the case he's better offensively with better linemates, he's much worse defensively, and has shown zero physicality this year (probably to keep himself healthy, so lets not even talk about that risk)
So why would the Jets trade a 1st round pick to add (at best) a comparable player to Namestnikov who they got for cheap last year? That 1st can be used to go after a better player, maybe one with term like they did with Nino last year, who also didn't cost a 1st.
Monahan might go for a 1st, but he's not worth a 1st with the way he has played this season, just like Chia wasn't when Montreal was pumping and dumping him.
Beezeral
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- Mar 1, 2010
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Any GM who pays a 1st round pick for Sean Monahan needs to be fired before the trade call is completed.
GirardSpinorama
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pth2
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It's fascinating how people focus on the possibility of a first-round pick, even when most are seeing that as an outside possibility rather than a sure thing.
Monahan isn't being pumped and dumped, claiming that is just proof of ignorance... the guy has centered a lot of scrubs, kids and waiver fodder this year. Is he being protected? Perhaps, he's not as physical as he could be, and he isn't being given a heavy forechecking role, either.
And BTW: Chiarot wasn't pumped-and-dumped - he was playing a regular role, after playing a top-4 role mostly with Weber all the way to the Finals.
Nico Cauzuki
Registered User
this is a good point can a team request a medical report before trading for the player ?
im sure the pick we get in return will come with conditions on gms played
And if he gets a 4th like edmundson all the Homer's from Montreal will pretend they didn't ask for a 1st multiple times.
MardyBum
Registered User
Oh I think he could go for a conditional 1st. GMs love faceoff wins and he has a reputation as a two way C even if his defense has been mid this year. I just don't want it to be my team. I don't want this
SeanMoneyHands
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Hunter368
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Players must pass medical tests (IIRC), a team can't trade a known injuryed player to another team.
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Trabdy2
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- Nov 30, 2018
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I don't think Monahan will certainly return a 1st rounder, but it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. How many "similars" will there potentially be available at the deadline (UFA 2024, similar offensive productivity/caliber)?
Lindholm?
Guentzel?
Tarasenko
Monahan
Henrique
Mantha
Some of these guys will obviously attract more attention than others. If Calgary and Pittsburgh decide not to move Lindholm and Guentzel, the market value might bump up for a guy like Monahan and that's where we might see a higher price paid.
One thing that stands out about Monahan is his cap hit is less than half of any of them, so he could be attractive for some teams closer to the cap where a third team doesn't need to be involved to spread out the cap hit.
Lindholm?
Guentzel?
Tarasenko
Monahan
Henrique
Mantha
Some of these guys will obviously attract more attention than others. If Calgary and Pittsburgh decide not to move Lindholm and Guentzel, the market value might bump up for a guy like Monahan and that's where we might see a higher price paid.
One thing that stands out about Monahan is his cap hit is less than half of any of them, so he could be attractive for some teams closer to the cap where a third team doesn't need to be involved to spread out the cap hit.
- Apr 27, 2005
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Yeah, it's Lindholm and then a bunch of other possible guys and then Monahan.
For teams that are looking to add a legit top 6 center, Lindholm is probably the only legitimate option. Guys like Cozens or Norris aren't likely to be moved because of their contracts. And it's pretty unlikely a team moves a younger C with RFA expiry at the TDL (e.g. Zegras, Mittlestadt, Pinto).
For teams looking to add a bottom 6C, I think Monahan is a pretty poor fit. Teams should be looking more towards guys like Backlund or Henrique as prime targets. Then there's guys like Sissons, Kuraly, Bjugstad, Sundqvist, Danforth etc that could become available. Maybe they'd even look at a guy like Gourde if they can get him with some retention. Lundestrom could an interesting option as well, and the Gauthier acquisition may make him more expendable, though I still question whether Anaheim would want to move on from him without significant overpayment.
Monahan would fall into the same category as Mikael Granlund IMO- a below average skater who can contribute offensively on poor teams when given top PP mins. But neither guy is really all that productive at 5v5, and their poor skating makes them defensive liabilities when played at center. I think most teams are savvy enough to understand this.
If I were a contender, I wouldn't even have Monahan as a top 5 TDL target among potentially available centers.
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Can't speak for the organization or even the fanbase at large, but personally have basically no interest in bringing in Monahan as a rental for the playoffs.
I've spent far too long listening to Fan960 for schadenfreude to want to have Monahan on my team in the playoffs. Would be kind of like buying the leaky tent that folds in the wind your neighbor has spent half a decade complaining about at their garage sale.
Oh I think he could go for a conditional 1st. GMs love faceoff wins and he has a reputation as a two way C even if his defense has been mid this year. I just don't want it to be my team. I don't want this
Yeah the trade didn't work out for Florida. Chiarot still went on to sign a big contract the next summer so some GM still thought good of him.
At the same time, we got half a Newhook (traded Florida 31st selection to Colorado along with 37th selection, Colorado drafted Mikhail Gulyayev) , Smilanek (a bust) and a 4th round selection who's probably not going to get an ELC.
JFresh charts would tell you Shea Weber was a replacement level dman too........ not very good for these types of players.
- Apr 27, 2005
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He's never been a very physical player, despite his size. He's one of the softest 6'3 200 lb centers in the league.
He's more of a finesse player who is good at finding soft areas around the ice. Even his much heralded release has always been more deceptive than heavy. He's a very smart player though.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume the critics were in his last few years in CGY? Not when he was scoring 30+ on a regular basis?
Maybe expectations were the issue in CGY at the end because of what he was and how much he was making.
For a 2M$ player, he's fantastic.
General Fanager
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EveryDay
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- Jun 13, 2009
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He look way better then most of the shitty forwards in NJ outside of Bratt and Hughes.
Can't believe he would be their 3rd or 4th best forward hahaha
He's just not a playoff guy. Some guys elevate. Some stay the same. Some get worse.
Largely the critics were that he was soft and lost puck battles at key times while getting beat head to head when it mattered most and often scoring meaningless points when the game was already decided.
It's also an injury risk thing - don't pretend no one watching can't see that he's taking practices off, and all of Habs Nation is terrified he gets injured before he gets traded. Everyone looking is terrified they trade for him and then he gets injured. He's made of glass.
I feel like those graphs make the argument for you - the overalls are skewed but for my 3rd liner I want the guy whose better defensively and in transition over finishing talent any day.
I can't imagine looking at those graphs as a contender and wanting Monahan over Lindholm.
EveryDay
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- Jun 13, 2009
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Do you know what made of glass mean?
Is Barkov made of glass? McKinnon? I hope you said yes to that question because if not you will look dumb when you see how many games all 3 played so far in their career ...
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