will it make you feel better if I replace "all" with "most"?
Speculation: Monahan forward most likely dealt first
- Thread starter HuGort
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Rob Sense
Registered User
- Apr 26, 2015
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- 3,189
backtracking eh?? replace "most" with "some" and you will be close to accurate. the problem with habs haters is that the generalization gene is on full throttle. It is always your kinds' downfall! Case closed.
Ianturnedbull
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
- 6,445
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No kidding. This is insane.
What wild assessment of what he might cost. Even if it is a joke, putting it out there on Twitter for trade hungry hockey fans is just bad judgement.
not backtracking just didnt think a maniac habs fan would take every word so literally. of course every single fan in a fanbase doesn't think the exact same thing, I figured that was common-sense and didnt need to be specified. I actually dont give a sh*t about habs, their team has been meh to bad for the last 2 decades (besides a fluke covid run). I jus think there are a lot of habs fans who are very passionate but clueless about hockey outside Montreal.
Ianturnedbull
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
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Since you're knowledgeable and other people are not what is Monahan then?
What is the non BS about Monahan?
Rob Sense
Registered User
- Apr 26, 2015
- 2,550
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take every word literally?? there are many little smart *sses like you who come here and say EVERY HABS FANS THINK just because they saw a random comment somewhere. You think you are cute and smart generalizing as if Habs fans are one collective brain...we are not and i can say that most of us are infinitely more knowledgeable than your type. All teams are bad at some time so nobody gives a **** what your opinion of our team is. Worry about your team and hope that someday your franchise can even come within a ****hair of being a fraction as successful as the Habs have been to hockey!
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Ezpz
No mad pls
- Apr 16, 2013
- 15,529
- 12,208
He literally broke his back and came back crappy. Still got a third for a broken player. I've gotta say the most intellectually deficient and dishonest posters seem to gravitate towards Habs player value threads to cite examples of farsical situations in which the Habs didn't get fair value for obvious reasons.
If we're talking about reality, then I would suggest going back and seeing that with every claim regarding Edmunsson or Monahan at the time, it was always directly or indirectly qualified with "if he came back and was healthy and returned to what he was like before the injuries".
But that doesn't fit the narrative so let's just ignore that.
Rob Sense
Registered User
- Apr 26, 2015
- 2,550
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he is a middle six center. Look at his stats and compare to other available centers on the market for $2M dollars (less at this point). Can I help you with other simple issues like this?
he literally missed 3/4 of the year prior. injuries had already massively decreased his value when habs fans were claiming he was worth a 1st. weird I was also just thinking there's a lot of intellectually deficient and dishonest posters in habs threads too.........
"farcical situation" you mean like habs fans thinking they'll get a 1st for Edmundson or Monahan?
Some good rentals have gone for less than the (unconditional) 1st round premium in recent years. In 2019, Dzingel (~64 point pace) and Nyquist (~63 point pace) didn't get it; Zuccarello (~66 point pace) returned conditional 1sts that weren't transferred. In 2020, Lehner was a year removed from a Vezina nomination and only returned a 2nd as the base piece. Hall still had some name value in 2021. 2022 was Manson (premium style RHD), Rakell (name value) and Giordano (leadership/name value); Copp (C on pace for ~51 points) returned a modest probability conditional pick that ended up being transferred. 2023 was Domi (~67 point pace); Kane's 1st was a modest probability conditional that didn't end up being transferred. 2024 has already seen Flames fans disappointed with the return for Zadorov.
And we're in an era of aggressiveness. The market could decide to pull back to early 00s to mid 10s conservatism as these trades continue to fall flat. Monahan's not sniffing that return 10 years ago.
I don't see a slam dunk here either way. He's nothing special, but he can play a premium position and the rental market is pretty shallow. It's borderline. Such a passionate debate is unusual under those circumstances.
Also, you can take solace, if your team does end up giving it up, that the player the Habs select is unlikely to be a meaningful asset in the future. Just the odds at that point of the draft.
And we're in an era of aggressiveness. The market could decide to pull back to early 00s to mid 10s conservatism as these trades continue to fall flat. Monahan's not sniffing that return 10 years ago.
I don't see a slam dunk here either way. He's nothing special, but he can play a premium position and the rental market is pretty shallow. It's borderline. Such a passionate debate is unusual under those circumstances.
Also, you can take solace, if your team does end up giving it up, that the player the Habs select is unlikely to be a meaningful asset in the future. Just the odds at that point of the draft.
pth2
Registered User
- Jan 7, 2018
- 3,588
- 2,859
Agree on this part.
Recent examples on here:
Like that guy insisting that Habs fans think Armia is worth a first ?
Or the one who now insists Habs fans have been claiming that Anderson is worth not 1, but 2 first rounders for over a year ?
Hunter368
Global Moderator
- Nov 8, 2011
- 27,675
- 25,422
Do more posters need to be removed from this thread? Chill out people, follow the rules, it’s a fictional trade thread
pth2
Registered User
- Jan 7, 2018
- 3,588
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The consensus about Monahan among Habs fans seems to be to expect a 2nd and a prospect, or a 2nd and 3d. Winnipeg has an advantage if they'll give Montreal their own 2nd rounder back, since it'll be far before other available 2nds.
If I'm Kent Hughes, right now I'm holding on a for a first or a first-round equivalent, but once things move forward and the market is set, then maybe I dial down my expectations. But the "Buy now" button equivalent on Ebay (ie, short-circuiting the auction and immediately buying) would be a first or equivalent... for the time being.
HuGort
Registered User
That's good article, nice find. I liked comparison to Copp trade. Which returned a first, second and fourth, plus Morgan Barron.
Fans bash players with out really watching them. It the hive mentality. Nurse get bashed all the time. Yet if fans took the time to look at the competition he faces and the D partners he been saddle with they would see him as a very good number 2D. He been playing like a number 1 since the Knob poked him(lol, I had to)I haven't seen enough to call him a number 1 yet.
The one concern I have with Monahan is his injuries, Would Montreal move him for a 2nd add some condition that if met add another pick
Whatever GM trades a first for Monahan needs to be fired. There are 10 players just like him available at every deadline lol
EveryDay
Registered User
- Jun 13, 2009
- 15,361
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Or like everyone who watch MTL, they knows he's been amongst MTL best players this year and he's producing more then Lindholm while playing with worst players.
Romang67
BitterSwede
Neat. I'm sure that has a positive effect on his ability to minimize scoring chances against.
I'm sure the faceoff percentage on the PK that he brought up in the article also has a tangible positive effect on the PK.
Assuming that he's one of the best players on the Habs this year and rejecting any and all data that disputes that because it can't be correct if it doesn't show he's doing great is, for the record, also a prime example of begging the question.
Don't mistake this as an offer to go dig up the numbers I've already shown in this thread again. I've posted them. I hope the Habs re-sign him so they can enjoy his renaissance.
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I am not a Montreal and I just read the first page and there not that many Montreal fans posting (4 or 5) and even then not all were asking for a first.its been 2 minutes since your last post. chill out.
here you go:
Also value is subjective. What good is a 3rd who is unlikely to ever make the NHL. Better to keep a guy that can help the younger players coming up. I would give up a first for Monahan if there wasn't health concerns.For that reason I would go a 2nd plus a 3rd but would need some retention to fit him under the cap
EveryDay
Registered User
- Jun 13, 2009
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Hey we said the same thing with Chiarot and guess what, he was worth a 1st apparently.
Same thing with Lehkonen, people were laughing but still the return was Barron a defenceman that was draft in the 1st round by Colorado recently.
Monahan is going to be one of top 3 forwards available at the tdl.
I respect that, but NYR picks will be around 25+ and Perreault is more valuable than any prospect arounf there IMO and we dont have a ton of good RW in the system
Last year TDL was insane, it was an arms race only for the juggernauts to get eliminated by round 1 or 2. I just think this years is going to be relatively lackluster TDL, which is kind of weird considering it is was a very strong draft last year.
When you look back at last year's deadline the teams that did OK were the teams that got a good player with some term still attached to it.
It seems like there is going to be less sellers this year, which should lead to higher demand but if you don't have the arms race than you don't have the need to keep up with the others no matter the cost.
I do think Monahan trade value depends if Montreal is willing to on the injury risk with a conditional games played clause attached to it. Even with it though injury history is his biggest downside and GM highly value durability when it comes to playoff hockey.
When you look back at last year's deadline the teams that did OK were the teams that got a good player with some term still attached to it.
It seems like there is going to be less sellers this year, which should lead to higher demand but if you don't have the arms race than you don't have the need to keep up with the others no matter the cost.
I do think Monahan trade value depends if Montreal is willing to on the injury risk with a conditional games played clause attached to it. Even with it though injury history is his biggest downside and GM highly value durability when it comes to playoff hockey.
- Dec 5, 2005
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I might be alone in here, but I'm really impressed with Monahan's play so far. He keeps adding points playing with scrubs mostly. He can easily drive a good team's 2nd line giving the opportunity. The real question is will he stays healthy for a whole year?
I think when everything is said and done, they will add another 1st pick and a prospect/roster
I think when everything is said and done, they will add another 1st pick and a prospect/roster
Lolonegoal
Registered User
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,367
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The most reasonable answer here.
Players don't dictate their own trade value, the managers competing to acquire them do. Its all about supply and demand.
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