Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[notdoneyet]

Awesome skill but with 14 minutes to go in the third and the Bruins up 3-0 and after being yelled at by 34 and 88. Now show us some Marner highlights from games 5-7 please. Therein lies the problem with Mitch.

Therein lies the problem with Matthew nylander and tavsres
You posters blame only one player
Drop the hate man it’s not a good look

 

[Hellcat]

He may still be moved.

He's not going to be moved, he will be signed to an extension. You dont move a player if your sales pitch to UFA forwards is, you will get to play with him on your line. The trade Marner narrative, is a fan / talking head fever dream that has zero basis in reality.

I don’t know that at all. That’s why I’m hoping to see some proof but it seems tough to find.

You want proof..? You are better poster than that ...

 

[myleafs]

I don’t think it’s that they are afraid to gamble. Marner is still a good player. You want a good return for him. The leafs are in a competitive window. This years free agency was complete ass in terms of forwards. If you move Marner NOW with the forward core as is, there is a zero percent chance we are making the playoffs let alone doing any sort of damage. If there were quality forwards available I think the leafs probably move Marner and don’t think twice. Moving Marner at this stage makes the team significantly worse.

Thats a bit of an overstatement, hyperbole if you will.

 

[Antropovsky]

Its situational. On the first, Marner would have been on the north side of that hit. He would have taken himself out of the play with the puck headed south assuming the hit was a draw. That is pretty stupid hockey. You lay a hit when the puck is headed in the right direction unless you are new.

(See attached photo) It's absurd to be this close to a puck in relation to your opponent and decide to stop and let the opponent have it. Yes, the puck is the black dot under the T of the Truly can nearest Marner. At this point.. why even play a contact sport at all? How can a line cycle a puck if a player wants more room then this between him and an opponent before he will pursue a loose puck?

Last year, Sportsnet indicated that Matthews lack of playoff points may be due to Marners perimeter play (see quote below)... this is full blown evidence of it. Marners line lost possession because Marners soft perimeter play. This is why Marner is blamed and not Matthews.

It’s also tough to make sense of Matthews’ dried-up point totals, but what really dropped were his primary assists, which went from 1.16 (per 60) to 0.48. Hindsight is 20/20, but seeing how far Marner was living from the net in the above stats, and that Calle Jarnkrok was on Matthews’ left side, maybe it would’ve been tough to tally many points on passes.

"Unless you are new?" Former NHL player Jordan Schmaltz torched Marner for "pulling the chute". He's a pro hockey player lol. Biznasty torched Marner for not engaging physically on TNT broadcast (also a former pro hockey player, paid analyst and has alot of Pro NHL friends/connections)

 

[ACC1224]

He's not going to be moved, he will be signed to an extension. You dont move a player if your sales pitch to UFA forwards is, you will get to play with him on your line. The trade Marner narrative, is a fan / talking head fever dream that has zero basis in reality.



You want proof..? You are better poster than that ...

I always thought that if he did get moved it would be at the end of summer before camp but it is starting to feel like that may not the be the case.
The wild card in this is Treliving, he seems to keep his cards close.

 

[Superstar]

Tbh one could argue you don’t even need hindsight.

We had kadri, he made like 5 million, he gave like 60 points and sometimes played with not too great linemates. I know “when that level of player hits the open market you don’t think”, but I think you do. We had our cornerstone 1C, we had our 2 wingers and our future 1D. Kadri was more than enough as a 2C and we just didn’t believe that was enough. This was before the second suspension too so it’s not like he was a liability in that aspect at that point

As for me, with hindsight I’d probably move nylander for a defender in 18-19. Whether pesche or paryako or petro was available I’d have tried my hardest to do it. Our offence was more than good enough to win, imagine a shutdown pairing of muzzin - petro/pesche instead of Zaitsev. Or running 3 incredibly strong LHD or Rielly muzzin paryako. Nylander has become an incredible player but at the time was a luxury not really needed, we had the big 3 + kapanen, kadri, johnsson. We had our elite G and I think we could’ve gone all the way if we made that move

Hindsight is nice and all, but Dubas the charlatan was here..."we can and we will!" Pietroangelo was available to sign when neither Marner nor Nylander had a NMC several years ago.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don’t know that at all. That’s why I’m hoping to see some proof but it seems tough to find.

Go back and start reading this thread after Game 7 and you will find posters posting all the trade talks with MM

 

[Gabriel426]

He's not going to be moved, he will be signed to an extension. You dont move a player if your sales pitch to UFA forwards is, you will get to play with him on your line. The trade Marner narrative, is a fan / talking head fever dream that has zero basis in reality.



You want proof..? You are better poster than that ...

With Drai still unsign, think it is wise to wait till Drai signs a contract before committing to a player with a huge contract in the faint hopes that McD will leave Oilers and join his home team like JT.
Ofcourse, this goes out the window if Drai renew with the Oilers.

 

[ToneDog]

Therein lies the problem with Matthew nylander and tavsres
You posters blame only one player
Drop the hate man it’s not a good look

It's the Marner thread and I commented on the highlight posted. Get over it. I would love to move 88 and that ugly contract but 34 and 88 are staying for now. If we could only move them all and start over.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

It's the Marner thread and I commented on the highlight posted. Get over it. I would love to move 88 and that ugly contract but 34 and 88 are staying for now. If we could only move them all and start over.

I really hate that comeback, it’s lazy and untrue

Sure it’s tapered off NOW, but for the month or so after the playoffs, maybe longer all of them were getting called out, marners being latched onto rn because he has no upcoming contract so that leaves some room for a trade or departure.

If Marner were in nylanders position and vice versa, this would be a nylander thread of people talking about dealing nylander rn

 

[Stephen]

I really hate that comeback, it’s lazy and untrue

Sure it’s tapered off NOW, but for the month or so after the playoffs, maybe longer all of them were getting called out, marners being latched onto rn because he has no upcoming contract so that leaves some room for a trade or departure.

If Marner were in nylanders position and vice versa, this would be a nylander thread of people talking about dealing nylander rn

Disagree. Nylander's not a perfect player, but there are legitimate reasons why one would prefer him to Marner if they had to keep one. It's not all down to timing of contracts.

 

[ACC1224]

Go back and start reading this thread after Game 7 and you will find posters posting all the trade talks with MM

Sounds like a waste of time. If there was anything you would have posted it by now.

 

[francis246]

Thats a bit of an overstatement, hyperbole if you will.

Who do you think is gonna replace Marner’s 90 points? Alex Steeves?

 

[IPS]

Just look back at this thread and you will find those links.

Also stop acting like MM was not in trade discussions since Game 7 of the playoffs against the Bruins.

You are a lot better poster than that.

Preferring to remain in a state of comfort rather than confronting challenging or uncomfortable truths is just weak minded shit.

These people just can't think beyond the status quo.

 

[Racer88]

Who do you think is gonna replace Marner’s 90 points? Alex Steeves?

Probably the players that we spend his 11 million on.
Or maybe some better defence , or better upgrades at some of the other positions because you know what Marners points have gotten us so far……1 playoff round in 8 years

 

[IPS]

Probably the players that we spend his 11 million on.
Or maybe some better defence , or better upgrades at some of the other positions because you know what Marners points have gotten us so far……1 playoff round in 8 years

Wait you mean teams are actually winning cups without players like Marner? How is that even possible?!?!

 

[Racer88]

Wait you mean teams are actually winning cups without players like Marner? How is that even possible?!?!

Even crazier is that team are winning with out Matthews, Nylander and Tavares and Marner all together on the same team.
Some teams are actually making the playoffs without him

 

[Antropovsky]

Who do you think is gonna replace Marner’s 90 points? Alex Steeves?

I mean... Domi was pacing to blow Marners stats out of the water. Holmberg in his 90 mins with Matthews was too.

 

[notbias]

I mean... Domi was pacing to blow Marners stats out of the water. Holmberg in his 90 mins with Matthews was too.

If there is anything I've learned from this board, it is that pace means absolutely nothing.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If there is anything I've learned from this board, it is that pace means absolutely nothing.

Only if you want to find fault in the player. It means a whole lot if you want to hype a player.

 

[Shooter2x]

I mean... Domi was pacing to blow Marners stats out of the water. Holmberg in his 90 mins with Matthews was too.

Can't tell if serious name dropping an offensive scrub like Holmberg

 

[Antropovsky]

Can't tell if serious name dropping an offensive scrub like Holmberg

Yup... that offensive scrub had 3 primary assists in 90 mins with Matthews. Marner had 10 in 720. He'd have blown Marner out of the water pacing with Matthews as his linemates.

Domi... you don't want to hear this but Matthews line was almost 2x more productive with Domi instead of Marner.

Mitch Gretzky Marner couldn't get Bertuzzi to produce any points... but Bertuzzi was productive with everyone else. Marner - Bertuzzi had 1 primary assist between eachother... and get this.. it was Bertuzzi with the primary assist... a beautiful pass putting the goalie way out of position and a Marner was gifted an empty net tap in. Jeez... too bad Marner, the pure playmaker, couldn't rummage up even one primary assist to Bertuzzi... I mean, he boosts his linemates.. even know all the evidence from 2024 indicates the complete opposite.

Probably the reason ufas aren't interested in the pitch "you can play with Marner"

 

[Gabriel426]

I really hate that comeback, it’s lazy and untrue

Sure it’s tapered off NOW, but for the month or so after the playoffs, maybe longer all of them were getting called out, marners being latched onto rn because he has no upcoming contract so that leaves some room for a trade or departure.

If Marner were in nylanders position and vice versa, this would be a nylander thread of people talking about dealing nylander rn

Let’s say the situation is different in terms of contract. MM was on his last year of the contract and Willie for two yrs left. Do you think Leafs will attempt to sign MM to a new contract after his showing against the Panthers in 2023 playoffs? Or in mid season like Willie with the way he played in the 23-24 season?

After this season and playoffs, despite not playiNg Great but Willie did had a career regular season and scored all the goals(3) in the last two games.
Do you think Leafs will leave him unsigned and attempt to trade him or discussing an extension?

I really don’t know the answer to both questions.

 

[Antropovsky]

If there is anything I've learned from this board, it is that pace means absolutely nothing.

Well.. then.... we can satisfy both pace and actual points:

Domi 5vs5 - 36 total assists, 23 primary.
Marner 5v5 - 29 total assists, 19 primary

Domi mins with Matthews: 206
Marner mins with Matthews: 720

Total assists per/60(pace):
- Domi
2.23 total assists (2nd only to Mcdavid), 1.43 primary assists
- Marner
1.73 total assists, 1.13 primary assists

Max Domi blew Marner out of the water in both actual and pace, lets summarize:

- He paced more total assists and primary assists than Mitch Marner
- He had more actual total assists and primary assists than Mitch Marner.
- He had more assists despite 73% less minutes with Matthews compared to Marner.

If Marner is worth 12 million... I guess Domi took a massive discount on what shouldve been 15million?

 

[Superstar]

Let’s say the situation is different in terms of contract. MM was on his last year of the contract and Willie for two yrs left. Do you think Leafs will attempt to sign MM to a new contract after his showing against the Panthers in 2023 playoffs? Or in mid season like Willie with the way he played in the 23-24 season?

After this season and playoffs, despite not playiNg Great but Willie did had a career regular season and scored all the goals(3) in the last two games.
Do you think Leafs will leave him unsigned and attempt to trade him or discussing an extension?

I really don’t know the answer to both questions.

I think Dubas was ready to trade Marner for Karlsson after what he saw in that series against the Panthers had he not been fired by Shanahan...Dubas had probably seen enough from Marner to finally realized he was duped, if the Montreal series wasn't obvious enough...got bent by Marner during negotiations, moved Marleau out for a very costly 1st rounder, and ate salary to put on LTIR just to fit Marner's contract in under the cap...Dubas moved heaven and earth to fit Marner under the cap, though it was his own doing.

The human brain has what is called the "orienting reflex", and it's a mechanism that helps you orient yourself around this world and detect lies...after awhile, even a person can't keep buying into his own lies like Dubas had been, that paying 4 forwards half the salary cap works, unless he's completely delusional or continues to lie on purpose.