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Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

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DarkKnight said:
I'd bet it all there have been several contracts already offered. His agent likes to go to the wire and thinks the rising cap is a factor. I'd be stunned if 12 mil wasn't already offered, just look at our internal salaries, slightly above Willie with a bigger cap, it's just baked in. Again, I don't buy for a second the Leafs haven't tried hard, perhaps they've backed off now because Ferris clearly wants to hit July 1, but don't confuse that with Tre not making offers, they clearly have.
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Kudos for your honest take. :clap:
 
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thewave said:
Vegas was a good test. Critique his play in that game which will be the same as Vs FL in the POs. I will do it for you, he will be useless.

Now let's wait and see who is right. I want to be proven wrong for the record
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Another test for this team tonight coming off the loss to Vegas. Will be interesting to see what Colorado brings with their new faces in the lineup after hearing they might be meeting Ranta and Dallas in round #1.

That might be the best series of the entire playoffs.
 
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DarkKnight said:
I'd bet it all there have been several contracts already offered. His agent likes to go to the wire and thinks the rising cap is a factor. I'd be stunned if 12 mil wasn't already offered, just look at our internal salaries, slightly above Willie with a bigger cap, it's just baked in. Again, I don't buy for a second the Leafs haven't tried hard, perhaps they've backed off now because Ferris clearly wants to hit July 1, but don't confuse that with Tre not making offers, they clearly have.
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Marner is signable at 12m and maybe more if the NMC is limited, or expires in the last year(s)etc.

The moment we are boxed in I hate it. Like with Nylander and everyone else.

Ie. Marner 4x12.5m with 2 years NMC and 2 years Limited so we can get something back if it doesnt work out.
 
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IPS said:
Yup Kyle Dubas - voted by player agents to be the best gm for getting the best deal for their clients. If thats gonna be one of your aguments you're already cooked before the argument starts.
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If you have to point at some silly poll from years ago, pretend that a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of agents speak for everybody (when most who even participated voted otherwise or didn't vote), misunderstand what's actually being said to fit your narrative, and then incorrectly apply it to the discussion, you've already lost the argument.

For the record, in the newest agent poll, Tampa and Minnesota led. And it went a bit more into detail about what this kind of question actually means.

"In this category, words like “reasonable,” “accessible” and “honest” carry a lot of weight."

"Some agents noted a desire to deal with former player agents, such as Zito of the Panthers. “I like dealing with Billy Zito. He’s been on both sides of it,” one said."

And some further explanation of why agents and their clients like dealing with Toronto:

"Agents appreciated MLSE's willingness to spend on more than player salaries.
“They have the money to basically do whatever they want,” one noted. “They treat their players great.”"
 
Marner is terrific, there’s no denying that. I think what drives this boards frustration with him is that despite being a hometown boy who professes his love for the leafs, he has never given any semblance of a discount. Once again, (albeit judging only from rumours per Mirtle), it seems like he is chasing the bag. Coupled with his lack of offensive output in the playoffs, it’s not a shocker that people have soured on him. Remember that Marner was the most popular leaf on his entry level contract.

This contractual news is unfortunate. I would have loved to resign him at a reasonable rate. There in way in which we improve if he walks for nothing. That being said, we cannot allow ourselves to be gouged continuously on contracts.

I know we all want to say that Rantanen taking 12 means Marner should get 12 or less. This is unlikely. He will make the argument for different taxes, and for having more offensive output than Nylander, who is at 11.5.

I think we could justifiably get up to 12.75 by 8. I wouldn’t love it, but it would be okay. I’m not sure we can do 13 with the Rantanen contract though, and I wish Marner would realize that if he gave the team a discount, public goodwill would immediately pivot back to him
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Contracts, for one. What evidence do you have that GMs are ignoring the valuable information that some here choose to? And again, it's interesting that you directed this question at me, and not the individual that first made the claim about what the hockey world thinks.
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You made the statement that the actual hockey world thinks……..

You have not provided a single piece of evidence to define who the actual hockey world is in your mind. I haven’t seen a single person say that Marner is better or deserves more.

There are plenty of examples of “hockey world” people in the media saying that rantanen is worth more than Marner (CJ last night). He generally reports what the “hockey world” thinks in terms of actual gms.

I agree that there can be a divide between media opinion and gms. Ok sure. You cannot provide any evidence that a single hockey gm values him more.

Just like you have no evidence that primary assists are equally valued as goals in contracts
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Marner avoids the usual top tier goaltending to face poor goaltending once, and suddenly he's "propped up".

Rantanen faces poor goaltending a bunch of times, and those same people ignore that and pretend he's a playoff hero.
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People play the goalie in front of them. You can’t really argue the difference in goalscoring ability.

If you want to argue for pk and defence then go ahead, but arguing about goalscoring in relation to Rantanen and Marner is futile.
 
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ToneDog said:
So if you want to believe Kyper who Bourne says is connected to the Marner family, the Leafs offered Cowan, Minten and two firsts for Rantanen and Matthews money to Rantanen. The Canes fearing meeting Ranta and the Leafs in the playoffs, decided to send him to Dallas. Tells you who they think is the better player. Of course in this case the Marner PR crew will twist themselves into a pretzel and tell you Kyper is full of shit.
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Why would being connected to the Marner family have any inside knowledge of what the leafs offered for rantanen?
 
WTFMAN99 said:
Do I like Mitch and would I want to keep him? Yes. if he bombs in the playoffs again though, it's a tough conversation.

This is Rantanen's contract, note the signing bonuses.




So when people talk about Marner’s contract, just look at it as like
14M
2M deferred
900k salary
11.1M signing bonuses
NMC

No one can touch that

If Marner wouldn't sign an artificially 12M (but really getting 14M per) - I think you did everything you could, and I would argue this is ridiculously well above and beyond Rantanen got.
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Ok so is there still a cap converter that you can tell what the contract would be in high tax market?

He didn’t get full sb

So he would be paying no state tax on the sb. No state tax on 50% of home games and then the same relative pay as everyone else.
 
Legion34 said:
Yes. He is. So is rantanen. 2 seperate teams have refused to give him over 12 million

Marner has a limit too
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According to Kyper, Leafs offered Rantanen 105-110 million dollars on an 8 year deal (first 10 minutes).

www.sportsnet.ca

Real Kyper and Bourne

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne talk all things Maple Leafs and NHL! Airing live on Sportsnet 590 The FAN weekdays from 4-6 PM ET.
www.sportsnet.ca
 
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Legion34 said:
Yes but how would they know? Why would Marner or Ferris know what they offered for rantanen?
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Sorry, I am saying he knows how much Leafs offered Marner. No idea how Kyper knows what he claimed in yesterdays show (see link in my previous post) about what went down with the Leafs, Canes and Ranta.
 
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Legion34 said:
Ok so is there still a cap converter that you can tell what the contract would be in high tax market?

He didn’t get full sb

So he would be paying no state tax on the sb. No state tax on 50% of home games and then the same relative pay as everyone else.
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1741442765150.png


That's why I did 14M but he has to defer to 12M artificial cap

16M more than Mikko Rantanen is nuts.

Utah and Chicago it's about 1.3-1.5M difference.
 
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