Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[notDatsyuk]

Matthews regular season (605 games) sh% 15.9%
Matthews playoffs (55 games) sh% : 9.8%
Matthews last 3 games of playoffs in last 4 seasons (12 games) sh% 4.25%

The haters don't even know why they hate Marner.

Interesting.

Nylander regular season (665 games) sh% 12.9%
Nylander playoffs (54 games) sh% : 12.0%
Nylander last 3 games of playoffs in last 4 seasons (12 games) sh% 13.33%

The haters don't even know why they hate Nylander.

 

[Gabriel426]

Under the radar stats on TDL.

Contending teams are refusing to give more than 12mil for guys in Rantanen tier.

The fact that Leafs was actually in the mix for Rantanen really showed Tre and MM are far apart or MM and Tre show no indication of getting an extension.

Bc even though the math can fit Rantanen, Knies and MM starting next season but realistically doesn’t make sense as there is a 2C hole created by JT walking, while still needing a 3C and another top 4 RHD with literally no money.
Even if Domi, Calle and Kampf are traded and replace with players making 950k. That would only free up 4mil.

In short, Tre is already looking for MM replacement. After today, if the guys continue their trend of 1st round exits. I can see JT returning with Bennett as 2C more than MM returning with Bennett as 2C.

 

[arso40]

Interesting.

Nylander regular season (665 games) sh% 12.9%
Nylander playoffs (54 games) sh% : 12.0%
Nylander last 3 games of playoffs in last 4 seasons (12 games) sh% 13.33%

The haters don't even know why they hate Nylander.

Well said my friend

 

[arso40]

Marner needs to start getting the short end of the sticc no more matthews wing no more power play running through him no more helping him pad his staccs put him with jt and Robertson/domi and let him carry the second line and let’s see how he performs greedy little pig

 

[Leaf Fans]

nobody look at ehlers playoff stats

Also:

What did he actually say?
Not exactly, and he made it clear that he is not reporting any thing.

From about the 36 minute mark maybe. A little later. That wasn't a paraphrase more of a miss representation of words that were used.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Goals per Game (G/GP)
Rantanen: 0.52
Nylander: 0.47
Marner: 0.32
5v5 Goals per 60 (G/60)
Rantanen: 1.07
Nylander: 0.94
Marner: 0.65
Power Play Goals per 60 (PP G/60)
Rantanen: 2.17
Nylander: 1.88
Marner: 1.18
Not to mention Rantanen is a far bigger body, much harder to play against and has way better playoff metrics.

Well first, I'm not sure where you got those numbers... If I did goals, it would be:

G/GP
Rantanen: 0.55
Nylander: 0.48
Marner: 0.36

G/GP (no EN)
Rantanen: 0.49
Nylander: 0.46
Marner: 0.34

5v5 G/60
Nylander: 1.10
Rantanen: 1.07
Marner: 0.77

PP G/60
Nylander: 2.52
Rantanen: 2.27
Marner: 1.98

Though of course, cherry picking only goals when you're comparing two goal scorers and PP shooters to a playmaker and PP QB is pretty intentionally misleading, and not representative of their respective quality or worth.

Body size isn't a factor here, Rantanen is not harder to play against, and while his playoff experiences have allowed him to put up more flashy numbers, there's more to playoff performance than that.

"Everything that doesn't agree with my opinion is biased!"

Of course not. I'm open to actual counter arguments. Media personalities putting together clickbait lists that they've provided zero justification for, that contradicts objective data, is not an actual argument though. It's an appeal to a fake authority.

 

[Hellcat]

If you believe mirtle a deal would have been done if marner accepted the nylander deal plus a bit based on the new cap. Do the math and you can figure out how much he wants. If you believe Kypreis, it is 13.8.

So the truth comes out, it's not that you know what the actual offer is, you believe speculation (Mirtle even said "He believes" not "It is" words matter) from a guy who lives off clicks, gotcha ... I got some cheap swamp land in Florida available.

Let me try .... I spoke with Mitch this morning, Marner's ask was $9.5 million, who knew it was so easy to make up unsubstantiated shit and package it as the truth .... I'm shocked... do better, be better.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I mean the guy has 50 pts in 57 games, propped up by that Tampa series, yet some guys post stats trying to pretend he is some playoff hero

Marner avoids the usual top tier goaltending to face poor goaltending once, and suddenly he's "propped up".

Rantanen faces poor goaltending a bunch of times, and those same people ignore that and pretend he's a playoff hero.

 

[William Johnson]

TSN pro Leaf bias. Good one. Where TSN ranks players is irrelevant. Their rankings are usually horrific. Some media personalities might like Rantanen more, but the actual hockey world values Marner more, and recognises that he is the better player. Very unlikely we'd be able to get Marner for 12.5m, but fingers crossed for a discount.

This is an interesting statement. You certainly sound very confident in stating it, as usual.

Can you please provide evidence of some actual hockey world experts who are on the record as having this opinion? Your personal opinions are well documented -- I'm interested in hearing from these experienced, professional voices on this issue.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Can you please provide evidence of some actual hockey world experts who are on the record as having this opinion?

Unsurprisingly, GMs don't go around doing public comparisons of players, but actions speak louder than words anyway. It's interesting that you directed this question at me, and not the individual that first made the claim about what the hockey world thinks.

 

[leafs in five]

Interesting.

Nylander regular season (665 games) sh% 12.9%
Nylander playoffs (54 games) sh% : 12.0%
Nylander last 3 games of playoffs in last 4 seasons (12 games) sh% 13.33%

The haters don't even know why they hate Nylander.

I like Nylander

 

[Atomos2]

This entitled Princess is gonna walk plain and simple. He can get that absurd money from another team. He has had years strangleholding this team financially with no results. He can earn his giant payday somewhere else.

 

[thewave]

This entitled Princess is gonna walk plain and simple. He can get that absurd money from another team. He has had years strangleholding this team financially with results. He can earn his giant payday somewhere else.

He rubs me the wrong way at every turn since we drafted him. I can't stand his play style either. If memory serves I wanted the Werenski and Barzal trade down that was talked about. Think Aho was that year as well. Anyways, he is the on ice version of Kyle Dubas in my eyes. He comes off as greedy, his agent and him seem deceptive and I don't think the Leafs should play ball with Marner.

We got some seriously good cost controlled players yesterday. Let's see if this group can do anything with it, but Tampa and FL look really good and I think both series are going to come down to the tending.

If Marner flops it again flip him the bird.

 

[William Johnson]

Unsurprisingly, GMs don't go around doing public comparisons of players, but actions speak louder than words anyway. It's interesting that you directed this question at me, and not the individual that first made the claim about what the hockey world thinks

Unsurprisingly, GMs don't go around doing public comparisons of players, but actions speak louder than words anyway. It's interesting that you directed this question at me, and not the individual that first made the claim about what the hockey world thinks.

I made a simple and polite request that you back up your statement: 'the actual hockey world values Marner more, and recognises that he is the better player.' I take it if you did actually have evidence to support this very clear statement, you'd willingly provide it, or do you perhaps prefer to keep it to yourself?

Now, to reflect on the rationale you did provide: You might be right about what GMs think, but how are you able to make such a definitive statement about what they think if they 'don't go around doing public comparisons'? As for the trenchant insight that 'actions speak louder than words', can you please be more specific? Which GMs' actions say to you that they value Marner more than Rantanen?

 

[Smif]

I like Nylander

If you defend Mitch it's automatically assumed you dislike Nylander in here for some reason..

 

[WTFMAN99]

Do I like Mitch and would I want to keep him? Yes. if he bombs in the playoffs again though, it's a tough conversation.

This is Rantanen's contract, note the signing bonuses.




So when people talk about Marner’s contract, just look at it as like
14M
2M deferred
900k salary
11.1M signing bonuses
NMC

No one can touch that

If Marner wouldn't sign an artificially 12M (but really getting 14M per) - I think you did everything you could, and I would argue this is ridiculously well above and beyond Rantanen got.

 

[ToneDog]

So the truth comes out, it's not that you know what the actual offer is, you believe speculation (Mirtle even said "He believes" not "It is", words matter" from a guy who lives off clicks, gotcha ... I got some cheap swamp land in Florida available.

Let me try .... I spoke with Mitch this morning, Marner's ask was $9.5 million, who knew it was so easy to make up unsubstantiated shit and package it as the truth .... I'm shocked... do better, be better.

Forget it. Believe what you want to believe.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Which GMs' actions say to you that they value Marner more than Rantanen?

Contracts, for one. What evidence do you have that GMs are ignoring the valuable information that some here choose to? And again, it's interesting that you directed this question at me, and not the individual that first made the claim about what the hockey world thinks.

 

[ToneDog]

So if you want to believe Kyper who Bourne says is connected to the Marner family, the Leafs offered Cowan, Minten and two firsts for Rantanen and Matthews money to Rantanen. The Canes fearing meeting Ranta and the Leafs in the playoffs, decided to send him to Dallas. Tells you who they think is the better player. Of course in this case the Marner PR crew will twist themselves into a pretzel and tell you Kyper is full of shit.

 

[leafs in five]

Tells you who they think is the better player

does it

 

[IPS]

Contracts, for one. What evidence do you have that GMs are ignoring the valuable information that some here choose to? And again, it's interesting that you directed this question at me, and not the individual that first made the claim about what the hockey world thinks.

Yup Kyle Dubas - voted by player agents to be the best gm for getting the best deal for their clients.

If thats gonna be one of your aguments you're already cooked before the argument starts.

 

[ToneDog]

Even strength points/60 in playoffs:

Rantanen - 2.726
Nylander - 2.435
Marner - 1.945

Now do playoff goals and pucks over the glass/60

 

[William Johnson]

Contracts, for one. What evidence do you have that GMs are ignoring the valuable information that some here choose to? And again, it's interesting that you directed this question at me, and not the individual that first made the claim about what the hockey world thinks.

Although I think I know what you're suggesting here, I'd still like to clarify, if you don't mind.

When I asked you for your evidence for your statement about what the 'actual hockey world' thought of Marner vs Rantanen, you referred to GMs' actions. When I asked about which specific actions, you've now referred to 'contracts, for one'. So, other than Marner's current contract, do you have any other GM actions that tell you that Marner is valued higher than Rantanen?

Or is it just the one contract, signed almost 6 years ago, that tells us what the 'actual hockey world' thinks and how they currently value these two players?

 

[DarkKnight]

Still speculation but I think the truth is starting to rise to the surface.

No typical positive soundbites from mgmt
Tre just tried to sign a second 11M+ RW
The ominous presser last summer
Tre testing a possible trade last summer
Ferris publicly shutting that down

The only other information we have is noise and opinions from pundits. Nothing valuable.

I dont think there was ever going to be a contract offered prior to the playoffs. If the playoffs go well (team and player), I'd expect hard negotiations to recalibrate internal pay.

It is notable however, unless they saw center upside in Ranta, they are amenable to two superstar RWs - at least a specific two anyways.

I'd bet it all there have been several contracts already offered. His agent likes to go to the wire and thinks the rising cap is a factor. I'd be stunned if 12 mil wasn't already offered, just look at our internal salaries, slightly above Willie with a bigger cap, it's just baked in. Again, I don't buy for a second the Leafs haven't tried hard, perhaps they've backed off now because Ferris clearly wants to hit July 1, but don't confuse that with Tre not making offers, they clearly have.

 

[diceman934]

This nonsense still taking place.

Marner is an elite player period.