Mitch Marner "waiting for something good from you" edition part III

[Ports]

marner was producing regardless of goals up until the last 5 games of last years playoffs, when he blocked shots vs boston he was producing the same and people were praising him, last year he took terrible penalties and looked lost, that was a first for him. hes got 25 pts in 32 playoff games, do you want more from him? sure. but lets not pretend marner has never been effective in the playoffs.
people are pissed off because of the things that have gone on with him recently, if it was just about production then matthews, JT, hyman etc should all have threads too. lets not pretend that people really care about anything but the last 15 games with marner.

just to be clear, i wanted marner traded in the offseason too, so regardless of the "marner defender" title i apparently have im just trying to be reasonable, whereas alot of people here are just reacting out of pure frustration.

Let’s face it. It doesn’t matter what a player did three years ago in a playoff series. They’re payed for what they do now. To me, Marner isn’t the same player he was against the Bruins. I don’t know if it’s the big contract that he can’t live up to, that he’s physically intimidated or other teams just know how to neutralize him. He even admitted that he wasn’t prepared to play in the first playoff game against Columbus and then last season against Montreal. These things are big red flags for me and I’m sure Leafs management. Even if they do trade him, I wouldn’t expect too much in return unless they eat some of his salary which will be a tough pill to swallow given the flat cap.

 

[francis246]

not to be picky but he is 24

sorry, still, he’s just hitting his prime!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think he could have gotten by on $9M a year instead with millions more in endorsements because of the market he plays in.

For sure .. rook GM got taken for a ride .. even harder when team could double/triple payroll but are severely limited in pay per team revenue compared to league CAP .. much easier in Tampa where GM says look we can show you our payroll is our revenues and you can get massive tax advantages by being in Florida as a resident .. in TO team has 200M+ in bank account most of year and Larry tells everyone who will listen what his annual dividend is .. TO will always be a tough team to manage because ownership are billionaires and most seat subscribers are mutli millionaires many times over and there is a lineup of many more multi millionaires to take their spots .. it is just a different hockey market compared to any other hockey city in world

 

[djdev]

Let’s face it. It doesn’t matter what a player did three years ago in a playoff series. They’re payed for what they do now. To me, Marner isn’t the same player he was against the Bruins. I don’t know if it’s the big contract that he can’t live up to, that he’s physically intimidated or other teams just know how to neutralize him. He even admitted that he wasn’t prepared to play in the first playoff game against Columbus and then last season against Montreal. These things are big red flags for me and I’m sure Leafs management. Even if they do trade him, I wouldn’t expect too much in return unless they eat some of his salary which will be a tough pill to swallow given the flat cap.

he was terrible to end last years playoffs 100%(and continuing into this year so far). but hes an elite player without a doubt and i have no doubts he will start to produce. after watching the last series the one thing that truly worries me is how he plays under real pressure, i mean the type of pressure when you are actually expected to do it as the better team/player, some players just dont have it imo. and playing in a pressurized place like toronto is taking its toll on him i think.
BUT, at the end of the day, the personal insults(greedy, lazy, pathetic etc) are lazy, stupid narratives. people who believe pro athletes(especially the best ones) dont care and dont try have clearly never played pro sports and are just out to lunch.

like or dislike marner, want him on the leafs or not, hes a great player. this fanbase will eat its own young. just look at our history, most recently gardiner and reimer.

 

[m1ker]

Some of the blame should be on Matthews for not shooting and Keefe for setting these guys up for mega failure over and over. Marner was a beast under Babcock.

 

[djdev]

Some of the blame should be on Matthews for not shooting and Keefe for setting these guys up for mega failure over and over. Marner was a beast under Babcock.

thats the thing, marner was trash last playoffs, but because of how it looked hes the only one thats facing this type of backlash. he was a big part of the failure but certainly not the only reason. and if you try and say that its only because you are a "marner defender" and not a normal person with enough perspective to see more than red lol.

 

[Gary Nylund]

At this point I don't believe we are in win now mode. If you look at the team a few years ago compared to now its rather depressing. We had Brown, Hyman, Kadri, Kappy etc...the only thing slightly better is the Defence today compared to 2018. I would not want Dubas making a trade to alleviate his situation that would haunt us years from now. The new guy (hopefully someone with lots of experience) should be the guy to trade Marner or whoever...not Dubas.

If there is any trade coming up soon it will be Reilly...I have a feeling they told him that if by Christmas we can't come to an agreement they are shopping him.

I'm almost 100% certain we're in win now mode.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

At this point I don't believe we are in win now mode. If you look at the team a few years ago compared to now its rather depressing. We had Brown, Hyman, Kadri, Kappy etc...the only thing slightly better is the Defence today compared to 2018. I would not want Dubas making a trade to alleviate his situation that would haunt us years from now. The new guy (hopefully someone with lots of experience) should be the guy to trade Marner or whoever...not Dubas.

If there is any trade coming up soon it will be Reilly...I have a feeling they told him that if by Christmas we can't come to an agreement they are shopping him.

The defense is significantly better than it was under Lou. It was bottom 5 in those years, and Andersen bailed them out. Our defense bailed out subpar goaltending for much of the Dubas-era.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Some of the blame should be on Matthews for not shooting and Keefe for setting these guys up for mega failure over and over. Marner was a beast under Babcock.

Yes back then they wanted da $$$ contract .. now they have it .. they joined da multi millionaire many times over club .. got their houses and condos in TO, boat house mansion in Muskoka and mansion in Naples too

 

[m1ker]

Yes back then they wanted da $$$ contract .. now they have it .. they joined da multi millionaire many times over club .. got their houses and condos in TO, boat house mansion in Muskoka and mansion in Naples too

I get it and agree but the reality is even if Marner took less we would still be having this discussion because keefe has married Am+mm together

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I get it and agree but the reality is even if Marner took less we would still be having this discussion because keefe has married Am+mm together

Not anymore. Marner is playing with JT today.

 

[m1ker]

Not anymore. Marner is playing with JT today.

Lol my point still stands though. Up until now they were married together

 

[justloveleafs]

Three of the posts on this page are unreadable on a cellphone...

Two sentence paragraphs for gods sake..

 

[axlrose87]

athletes careers arent infinite, they could have a career ending injury tomorrow. you get what u can as soon as u can. everyone can hate him because he asked for that kind of money, but again, the team wasnt required to pay him.

if he was producing like normal marner and had a better 7 game stretch to end last year this narrative wouldnt exist.
the same argument was being made for nylander up until recently as well.

You’re right.
If he played better these first six games…. And last years playoffs….. and the previous years playoffs, these narratives would not exist.
poor Marner

 

[stickty111]

When you criticize Marner, others come in to protect Marner by going after other players who have nothing to with Marner's individual performance. This is most common with Marner only. Some can't take him being criticized. Doesn't help that the excuses are almost pre planned.

It also has to do with expectations. Some have said he's better then Eichel and rather have Marner then Matthews. He's not better then any of those guys and that was confirmed a long time ago.
Marner just needs to play like the top winger he is, and not play like he is better then players superior to him.

 

[17 Clark]

sorry, still, he’s just hitting his prime!

And getting worse

 

[djdev]

You’re right.
If he played better these first six games…. And last years playoffs….. and the previous years playoffs, these narratives would not exist.
poor Marner

marner never scored alot in the playoffs, he has produced though, he even produced the 1st half of the series last year, your telling me if we win that series and marner has the same production as he normally has and we win that series that people have the same issue with his "production" today? we lost, so its different. he was one of the biggest reasons we lost but far from the only one.

 

[djdev]

When you criticize Marner, others come in to protect Marner by going after other players who have nothing to with Marner's individual performance. This is most common with Marner only. Some can't take him being criticized. Doesn't help that the excuses are almost pre planned.

It also has to do with expectations. Some have said he's better then Eichel and rather have Marner then Matthews. He's not better then any of those guys and that was confirmed a long time ago.
Marner just needs to play like the top winger he is, and not play like he is better then players superior to him.

criticizing marner is one thing, criticizing ONLY marner is unfair. zach hyman had 3 goals and 2 assists in 19 playoff games over the last 3 seasons. but he looks like he "tries" so he cant be criticized in the same way i suppose. JT has worse production in the post season since he joined the leafs and nobody has the same level of vitriol for him..why? im not here defending marners play, im defending the fact that if marner is fair game others should be open to the same level of criticism. instead of arguing in good faith people just call you a "marner defender" which is silly and lazy.

 

[francis246]

And getting worse

he’s in a slump. Hardly getting worse, last I checked his PPG keeps increasing or hovering around the same. Each year. Again please bring facts before you quote reply me. NEXT.

 

[francis246]

When you criticize Marner, others come in to protect Marner by going after other players who have nothing to with Marner's individual performance. This is most common with Marner only. Some can't take him being criticized. Doesn't help that the excuses are almost pre planned.

It also has to do with expectations. Some have said he's better then Eichel and rather have Marner then Matthews. He's not better then any of those guys and that was confirmed a long time ago.
Marner just needs to play like the top winger he is, and not play like he is better then players superior to him.

what the actual f*** has Eichel done? Besides moan and bitch (prior to this current situation he’s in) Marner is the third best player in that 2015 draft behind Aho if we are being realistic. Statistically he’s the second best player.

 

[Racer88]

Some of the blame should be on Matthews for not shooting and Keefe for setting these guys up for mega failure over and over. Marner was a beast under Babcock.

Marner was also playing for his mega contract under Babcock.

 

[francis246]

Marner was also playing for his mega contract under Babcock.

he level of production did not drop after he signed the extension though. He had the bad playoffs but his actual production was matched the next two seasons after he signed his extension, so that point is moot. Again, hate on him all you want but at least bring correct facts.

the facts is he had a bad playoffs. But so did Matthews, so did Hyman, so did Rielly, so did Tavares. Marner has actually out produced all 4 and you can include Nylander regular season wise the last 3 seasons. So who really isn’t living up to their contract?

 

[saffronleaf]

And getting worse

benjamin button type shit going on with him

 

[The Iceman]

Its easy to do when your manager is a peach fuzz baby face sucker at negotiating contracts.

WAS peach fuzzy.

I have quite liked his contracts other than Mitch's

 

[IPS]

criticizing marner is one thing, criticizing ONLY marner is unfair. zach hyman had 3 goals and 2 assists in 19 playoff games over the last 3 seasons. but he looks like he "tries" so he cant be criticized in the same way i suppose. JT has worse production in the post season since he joined the leafs and nobody has the same level of vitriol for him..why? im not here defending marners play, im defending the fact that if marner is fair game others should be open to the same level of criticism. instead of arguing in good faith people just call you a "marner defender" which is silly and lazy.

And wtf is Hyman's pay grade compared to Marner and Matthews again?

Tavares sure, fire away. Hyman is a pure complimentary player who was a glue piece for the top line.