Mitch Marner "waiting for something good from you" edition part III

[Sniper99]

Can’t believe this guy swindled the franchise for $11 million per season.

Its easy to do when your manager is a peach fuzz baby face sucker at negotiating contracts.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

there are reasonable things to plan for, this wasnt one of them. its like every location in the city capable of having an sort of social gathering being booked for an unknown amount of time at the last moment. how is that supposed to be planned for and how do you reschedule that???

all of our current cap problems have stemmed from this one completely out of left field global crisis, every NHL team is jumping through hoops to get under the cap. TB has "favourable" salaries with their stars and still needed to do outrageous shit with the cap last year lol.

I agree this event was totally an unforeseen situation. What I have a problem with is the response to it. If you planned on A and B or C happens...what do you do? Do you just sit there and say that other teams also planned on A as well or realize you need to be nimble and work around the situation.

It comes down to this: Nobody predicted Covid but at the same time it's a reality and having 3 players making 11M (at forward) is just not going to work. Are you going to just sit there and cry that your plan would have worked or try a new plan with new information?

 

[francis246]

Doesn't it seem to you that Dubas never seems to have a plan B? They get caught off guard on things but seem to take forever to fix the problems...be it Salaries or goalies...they seem to have a vision of how things will turn out and when they don't turn out as intended...they are just flabbergasted about what to do.

I have a cousin that if you ask to move a social gathering because circumstances have changed...she will not even comprehend an alternative...she will just say "But we planned for the 14th...the 14th was the day...how can we do something else when we planned for the 14th?

That is what Dubas seems to be like..."The cap was going up...Marner would not be taking up such a high cap %"...etc.

how can you predict a global pandemic? I’m not a Dubas fan but come on man. You can’t fault him for that. The projections with a new NHL TV deal and Seattle Expansion should have put the cap at least 7-8 million higher than it currently is by now. They have the best people working on projections

 

[Eye Test]

In Marner's last 20 games (including playoffs)

0 goals/9 assists.

Would you know how many total games have been played since he scored a power play goal including playoffs? Or I guess reversely how many power plays since his last PP goal including playoffs.

 

[Ports]

I don’t think he cares where he plays so long as he gets paid.

Didn’t he threaten Dubas that he was prepared to sign an offer sheet with Columbus? Proves your point.

 

[Ports]

lmao best winger in the NHL last year. NHL 1st All-Star team.

“pond-hockey superstar” dumbest narrative.

Hasn’t scored a playoff goal in 18 games. Think about that. He looked scared out there. Those are the games that count not playing in the Canadian Division.

 

[djdev]

I agree this event was totally an unforeseen situation. What I have a problem with is the response to it. If you planned on A and B or C happens...what do you do? Do you just sit there and say that other teams also planned on A as well or realize you need to be nimble and work around the situation.

It comes down to this: Nobody predicted Covid but at the same time it's a reality and having 3 players making 11M (at forward) is just not going to work. Are you going to just sit there and cry that your plan would have worked or try a new plan with new information?

hindsight is 20/20. the vast majority of leafs fans we super happy when we signed tavares, and while people said marner was overpaid by a bit, not many hated the signing at the time.
the only reason this is an issue right now is literally a 15 game stretch where he has shit the bed.

 

[Ports]

Broadly speaking, the players are the greedy ones is one of the greatest feats of grifting ever produced. Just a master class in manipulation by billionaire owners who jack up ticket prices, sell pieces of fabric with a logo on it for hundreds of dollars, all while suppressing the salaries of the labour who generates their revenue.

Tell that to the Bruins, Jets and Avalanche who got star players to sign for less so they could build a winner.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

how can you predict a global pandemic? I’m not a Dubas fan but come on man. You can’t fault him for that. The projections with a new NHL TV deal and Seattle Expansion should have put the cap at least 7-8 million higher than it currently is by now. They have the best people working on projections

Again...it's not faulting him for not foreseeing something that happens once every 100yrs...it's faulting him for not adjusting to the situation and realizing he can't do what he planned. Does he look like he has given up on the idea of 4 forwards taking up so much of the cap?

 

[Ports]

hindsight is 20/20. the vast majority of leafs fans we super happy when we signed tavares, and while people said marner was overpaid by a bit, not many hated the signing at the time.
the only reason this is an issue right now is literally a 15 game stretch where he has shit the bed.

You mean three playoff series with no goals. Those are the games he’s (over)paid for.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

You mean three playoff series with no goals. Those are the games he’s (over)paid for.

He was killing the Bruins in the 2nd series for the first couple of games until they started being physical with him...instead of being reactive they went on a hunt for him and the rest is history. Johnny Gaudreau is in the same boat...he did well until teams realized they could nullify him by being physical. Johnny has been MIA in the playoffs ever since then.

 

[francis246]

Hasn’t scored a playoff goal in 18 games. Think about that. He looked scared out there. Those are the games that count not playing in the Canadian Division.

hes not a goal scorer so I don’t really get all up in arms if he doesn’t score. But I understand why people do. I think total lack of production is more concerning to me. If Marner isn’t creating high quality scoring chances for his line mates what purpose is he really serving out there.

my argument is that there was a lack of finish on that line that affected everyone’s points totals. I hate brining it up. I loved Hyman as a player but he was a brick and a huge anchor on that line. He got paid good for him but he just missed a ton of point blank chances. Same with Marner and Matthews.

 

[Ports]

athletes careers arent infinite, they could have a career ending injury tomorrow. you get what u can as soon as u can. everyone can hate him because he asked for that kind of money, but again, the team wasnt required to pay him.

if he was producing like normal marner and had a better 7 game stretch to end last year this narrative wouldnt exist.
the same argument was being made for nylander up until recently as well.

You’re kind of stating the obvious. It’s 18 playoff games without scoring. That’s not a recent problem. Other teams play the body and he disappears.

 

[BlueForever75]

And then Marner and Matthews go off for 5 points combined tonight. And all of this goes away!!!!

Lol

 

[Gary Nylund]

Again...it's not faulting him for not foreseeing something that happens once every 100yrs...it's faulting him for not adjusting to the situation and realizing he can't do what he planned. Does he look like he has given up on the idea of 4 forwards taking up so much of the cap?

Exactly. That's why I was saying that we should be shopping Marner this summer. It's not that Marner sucks so let's get rid of him, it's that circumstances have changed so maybe we need to adjust our plan. Tavares can't be moved, Nylander makes a lot less and has been great, Matthews is Matthews so that leaves Marner. He's a 1st team all-star so I'm sure we'd have gotten some mighty attractive offers.

It feels like Dubas is stubbornly sticking to the original plan and so far it doesn't look like it's going well. The optimists were saying we won't miss Hyman, you can just plug anyone in next to M&M and so far that theory looks laughable. And it looks like the next cap casualty will be Rielly. I can only wonder who will be the Dman version of Ritchie who will be taking his place next season.

Maybe it'll work out and we go deep this season, maybe even win it all. All I can say is that if it doesn't happen and Dubas gets the boot next summer, I hope he hasn't traded away another bucketful of futures at the TDL first.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Tell that to the Bruins, Jets and Avalanche who got star players to sign for less so they could build a winner.

When you draft a kid you have to look at family and their situation too .. everyone who knew these kids and saw them playing from much younger ages knew what was going on .. fans would not have known and teams maybe not either .. these kids needed $$$ for their families who sacrificed massively for them to make show .. a lot of guys are rich kids from rich families as hockey now costs a small fortune for a kid to play .. $$ is not da primary factor for a lot of these kids .. when drafting it is important to understand that dynamic

 

[francis246]

Again...it's not faulting him for not foreseeing something that happens once every 100yrs...it's faulting him for not adjusting to the situation and realizing he can't do what he planned. Does he look like he has given up on the idea of 4 forwards taking up so much of the cap?

i hear you but the pandemic happened year 1 into the Marner/Matthews extensions LMAO. Which is why all of this is such an overreaction. How could Dubas actively make changes if the pandemic happen right as the extensions took effect, which is why you can’t fault him for wanting an opportunity to see his plan out..

 

[Ports]

hes not a goal scorer so I don’t really get all up in arms if he doesn’t score. But I understand why people do. I think total lack of production is more concerning to me. If Marner isn’t creating high quality scoring chances for his line mates what purpose is he really serving out there.

my argument is that there was a lack of finish on that line that affected everyone’s points totals. I hate brining it up. I loved Hyman as a player but he was a brick and a huge anchor on that line. He got paid good for him but he just missed a ton of point blank chances. Same with Marner and Matthews.

Blaming Hyman is just wrong. He did his job and got his linemates the puck and actually scored a goal, the same number as Matthews. Marner at 5 times the salary scored zero goals and spent half the series on his butt because he’s afraid of getting hit. To say that an $11M winger isn’t expected to score goals is disingenuous. Patrick Kane who plays a similar game is sure expected to score goals. Why not Marner?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Exactly. That's why I was saying that we should be shopping Marner this summer. It's not that Marner sucks so let's get rid of him, it's that circumstances have changed so maybe we need to adjust our plan. Tavares can't be moved, Nylander makes a lot less and has been great, Matthews is Matthews so that leaves Marner. He's a 1st team all-star so I'm sure we'd have gotten some mighty attractive offers.

It feels like Dubas is stubbornly sticking to the original plan and so far it doesn't look like it's going well. The optimists were saying we won't miss Hyman, you can just plug anyone in next to M&M and so far that theory looks laughable. And it looks like the next cap casualty will be Rielly. I can only wonder who will be the Dman version of Ritchie who will be taking his place next season.

Maybe it'll work out and we go deep this season, maybe even win it all. All I can say is that if it doesn't happen and Dubas gets the boot next summer, I hope he hasn't traded away another bucketful of futures at the TDL first.

At this point I don't believe we are in win now mode. If you look at the team a few years ago compared to now its rather depressing. We had Brown, Hyman, Kadri, Kappy etc...the only thing slightly better is the Defence today compared to 2018. I would not want Dubas making a trade to alleviate his situation that would haunt us years from now. The new guy (hopefully someone with lots of experience) should be the guy to trade Marner or whoever...not Dubas.

If there is any trade coming up soon it will be Reilly...I have a feeling they told him that if by Christmas we can't come to an agreement they are shopping him.

 

[myleafs]

i think you stay patient on mitch. The upside on mitch alone is worth staying the course. He’s already shown you he can completely dominate. I think you hedge your bets on him figuring it out. Because you will forever regret trading a 22 year old 90 point getter in his prime because he had a poor series and slow start to the year.

also the cap will go up and the contract will eventually be a steal based on the real money left on the contract. The extensions being made to players currently not even in the same atmosphere as Marner is crazy. Soon 10 mill for 60 point players will be the norm. Brady and Suzuki getting 8 million for 40 points is just brutal.

not to be picky but he is 24

 

[Ports]

When you draft a kid you have to look at family and their situation too .. everyone who knew these kids and saw them playing from much younger ages knew what was going on .. fans would not have known and teams maybe not either .. these kids needed $$$ for their families who sacrificed massively for them to make show .. a lot of guys are rich kids from rich families as hockey now costs a small fortune for a kid to play .. $$ is not da primary factor for a lot of these kids .. when drafting it is important to understand that dynamic

I think he could have gotten by on $9M a year instead with millions more in endorsements because of the market he plays in.

 

[Ports]

He was killing the Bruins in the 2nd series for the first couple of games until they started being physical with him...instead of being reactive they went on a hunt for him and the rest is history. Johnny Gaudreau is in the same boat...he did well until teams realized they could nullify him by being physical. Johnny has been MIA in the playoffs ever since then.

I agree but that’s playoff hockey and producing at that time of the year is why players like him are highly paid. It was lack of foresight by Leafs management to give four non physical players $40M+

 

[Trapper]

At this point I don't believe we are in win now mode. If you look at the team a few years ago compared to now its rather depressing. We had Brown, Hyman, Kadri, Kappy etc...the only thing slightly better is the Defence today compared to 2018. I would not want Dubas making a trade to alleviate his situation that would haunt us years from now. The new guy (hopefully someone with lots of experience) should be the guy to trade Marner or whoever...not Dubas.

If there is any trade coming up soon it will be Reilly...I have a feeling they told him that if by Christmas we can't come to an agreement they are shopping him.

If we aren’t in win now mode then we are screwed. Cause the fans and media won’t buy that and if you think it’s toxic now…wait for it.

Plus Matthews/Nylander will be up in 2 years with a full NMC for Matthews after 1 more.

Plus as you say, Rielly is up and so is our goalie.

 

[myleafs]

And then Marner and Matthews go off for 5 points combined tonight. And all of this goes away!!!!

Lol

Depends, are we talking 5 pts and a win or are we talking 5 pts late in 6-3 loss?

 

[djdev]

You’re kind of stating the obvious. It’s 18 playoff games without scoring. That’s not a recent problem. Other teams play the body and he disappears.

marner was producing regardless of goals up until the last 5 games of last years playoffs, when he blocked shots vs boston he was producing the same and people were praising him, last year he took terrible penalties and looked lost, that was a first for him. hes got 25 pts in 32 playoff games, do you want more from him? sure. but lets not pretend marner has never been effective in the playoffs.
people are pissed off because of the things that have gone on with him recently, if it was just about production then matthews, JT, hyman etc should all have threads too. lets not pretend that people really care about anything but the last 15 games with marner.

just to be clear, i wanted marner traded in the offseason too, so regardless of the "marner defender" title i apparently have im just trying to be reasonable, whereas alot of people here are just reacting out of pure frustration.