Mitch Marner "waiting for something good from you" edition part III

[Rogue Leader]

Your opinion is incorrect.

The extra money/overpayment that Marner demanded doesn't affect his lifestyle in the slightest. He would be of the crazy elite/rich 0.00001% regardless.

Say it to any non-greedy regular person. "Would you rather $50 mil right now, and be seen as a hero, or $60 mil right now an likely seen as a villain?"

Everybody would take the $50 mil.

Marner negotiated as though he is a tier above Rantanen/Point/Aho. But he's not a tier above. Marner's camp were wrong/horrible to demand such an overpayment. And Dubas was wrong/horrible to cave to it.

This is perfect! I completely agree with what you wrote. The 50/60 mil example is just brilliant. Shame we are in this situation now.

 

[93LEAFS]

I agree, the team is worse and it is poorly constructed. That being said, you have to take into account how COVID affected the salary cap. When Dubas signed Marner, Tavares, Matthews, it was assumed the cap would be considerably higher than what it currently is, thus making the contracts appear even worse. Don’t get my words twisted, I don’t like either contract, but the circumstances surrounding the cap and how those contracts would fit in with roster construction were out of his control and quite frankly very unlucky

Covid screwed stuff up, sure. But, he gave himself no flexibility and outs. Every team is dealing with the covid issue. He's also traded away picks like a drunken sailor when you pay 4 guys such a high percentage of the cap you need young players on ELC's contributing otherwise you are shopping for bargains consistently.

 

[Racer88]

yes because I’m not short sighted and I don’t hold a bad start to the season against them. In order to get to the playoffs you have to perform in the regular season which he has up to this point.

I don’t think the bad start to this season is the complete issue. The 1 goal in the last 3 years of playoffs and no PP goals in almost 82 games even though he gets max PP time doesn’t exactly scream 9 million dollar player

 

[GoBuds14]

You should never sign a contract ASSUMING the cap will go up. That was his first mistake.

I don’t agree, pre-Covid it was widely projected the cap would continue to rise, I don’t blame Dubas for this. I’m not a Dubas apologist believe me as I feel as though the potential of this roster/core has been wasted thus far and he has had a part to play in that

 

[francis246]

I don’t think the bad start to this season is the complete issue. The 1 goal in the last 3 years of playoffs and no PP goals in almost 82 games even though he gets max PP time doesn’t exactly scream 9 million dollar player

hes not a f***ing goal scorer, get that through your head. Never has and never will be. Talk to Matthews/Hyman who can’t finish.

hyman especially he had about 5 open looks and managed to f*** it up

 

[93LEAFS]

Your opinion is incorrect.

The extra money/overpayment that Marner demanded doesn't affect his lifestyle in the slightest. He would be of the crazy elite/rich 0.00001% regardless.

Say it to any non-greedy regular person. "Would you rather $50 mil right now, and be seen as a hero, or $60 mil right now an likely seen as a villain?"

Everybody would take the $50 mil.

Marner negotiated as though he is a tier above Rantanen/Point/Aho. But he's not a tier above. Marner's camp were wrong/horrible to demand such an overpayment. And Dubas was wrong/horrible to cave to it.

I'll take the 60m and not give a shit about what people who aren't my friends and family think of me. I'm not passing up 10m so joe schmo can like me more.

 

[francis246]

This is perfect! I completely agree with what you wrote. The 50/60 mil example is just brilliant. Shame we are in this situation now.

It’s not a good example. Not sure why you are saying it is. Whether it was 50 or 60 million. People were going to vilify him, they already did with Nylander

 

[francis246]

I'll take the 60m and not give a shit about what people who aren't my friends and family think of me. I'm not passing up 10m so joe schmo can like me more.

thank you, I don’t know why people on here are bullshitting themselves. You think I’m gonna rob myself of 10 million just someone I don’t know will like me more? You’re out of your damn mind

 

[Racer88]

hes not a f***ing goal scorer, get that through your head. Never has and never will be. Talk to Matthews/Hyman who can’t finish.

hyman especially he had about 5 open looks and managed to f*** it up

Calm down big fella it’s just hockey. That just makes my point…….if you can’t put the puck in the net you are not worth 9-11 million.
Check his stats…….Marner can score goals in the regular season just not in the playoffs the last 3 years

 

[GoBuds14]

Covid screwed stuff up, sure. But, he gave himself no flexibility and outs. Every team is dealing with the covid issue. He's also traded away picks like a drunken sailor when you pay 4 guys such a high percentage of the cap you need young players on ELC's contributing otherwise you are shopping for bargains consistently.

I agree, however the only part I push back on is that yes, every team had to deal with Covid and its effects on the salary cap, however the circumstances of every team can’t be painted with the same brush. In the Leafs case, they were at a point where they felt as though they had arrived at their window, and Dubas took a gamble and signed them to (bad) long term contracts, with the assumption the cap would continue to Rise. The timing of these contracts and then the subsequent effect Covid had on the cap was sort of a perfect storm going against the Leafs roster construction.

Who would have thought after that Washington series when the Leafs had a promising young core, that we’d be here. It’s really unbelievable.

 

[TMLAM34]

Our best bet at the moment is to trade Marner. Look for a second line center and a 2nd/3rd line winger in return. Move Tavares to the wing with Matthews and Bunting.

 

[Rogue Leader]

thank you, I don’t know why people on here are bullshitting themselves. You think I’m gonna rob myself of 10 million just someone I don’t know will like me more? You’re out of your damn mind

Don't really agree. Maybe I am just delusional, but I would gladly pay that 10M for hero status. Whenever you walk on the street - people praise you, men want to be you, women want somebody just like you ... people take photos, whenever you sit at a bar - people buy you free drinks. Marner could have been a modern superhero in Toronto. But in reality now he is afraid to walk on the street, because people redicule him and the people who actually recognize him - actively despise him.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

thank you, I don’t know why people on here are bullshitting themselves. You think I’m gonna rob myself of 10 million just someone I don’t know will like me more? You’re out of your damn mind

Didn't you just give us a sob story about how Marner's struggles are because the fans are being too mean to him? And now you're saying that it's completely meaningless what strangers think? Seems a bit inconsistent, so which is it?

 

[93LEAFS]

Don't really agree. Maybe I am just delusional, but I would gladly pay that 10M for hero status. Whenever you walk on the street - people praise you, men want to be you, women want somebody just like you ... people take photos, whenever you sit at a bar - people buy you free drinks. Marner could have been a modern superhero in Toronto. But in reality now he is afraid to walk on the street, because people redicule him and the people who actually recognize him - actively despise him.

Except for hero status isn't guaranteed and the idea it is at the cost of 10m is insanely flawed. You really think people would give him a break because he signed for less when he has a bad playoffs? People crap on players making league minimum all the time. The entire concept is naive at best.

 

[francis246]

Don't really agree. Maybe I am just delusional, but I would gladly pay that 10M for hero status. Whenever you walk on the street - people praise you, men want to be you, women want somebody just like you ... people take photos, whenever you sit at a bar - people buy you free drinks. Marner could have been a modern superhero in Toronto. But in reality now he is afraid to walk on the street, because people redicule him and the people who actually recognize him - actively despise him.

Dude don’t be dulsional. Even if his total salary was 10 mill less. If he had the same playoffs he did this past year the reaction would be the same

 

[francis246]

Didn't you just give us a sob story about how Marner's struggles are because the fans are being too mean to him? And now you're saying that it's completely meaningless what strangers think? Seems a bit inconsistent, so which is it?

the two are unrelated, I said fan pressure plays a role in on ice performance. When you negotiate a contract it’s not for the fans. It’s for you and and your family and what you believe your own self worth is.

should he be able to handle it ofc. But not everyone is built that way

 

[Rogue Leader]

Except for hero status isn't guaranteed and the idea it is at the cost of 10m is insanely flawed. You really think people would give him a break because he signed for less when he has a bad playoffs? People crap on players making league minimum all the time. The entire concept is naive at best.

Really like your posts and respect you as a poster! You are right ... I guess it's just some personal ambitions for perceived greatness in me .. flowed logic. Can't name them at the moment from the top of my head, but we have had some excellent Leafs with great contracts and people still didn't like their contracts.

 

[GoBuds14]

Your opinion is incorrect.

The extra money/overpayment that Marner demanded doesn't affect his lifestyle in the slightest. He would be of the crazy elite/rich 0.00001% regardless.

Say it to any non-greedy regular person. "Would you rather $50 mil right now, and be seen as a hero, or $60 mil right now an likely seen as a villain?"

Everybody would take the $50 mil.

Marner negotiated as though he is a tier above Rantanen/Point/Aho. But he's not a tier above. Marner's camp were wrong/horrible to demand such an overpayment. And Dubas was wrong/horrible to cave to it.

You sound like someone who has never had to choose between 50 million and 60 million.

 

[Racer88]

hes not a f***ing goal scorer, get that through your head. Never has and never will be. Talk to Matthews/Hyman who can’t finish.

hyman especially he had about 5 open looks and managed to f*** it up

if you are picking on Hyman you need to check his stats so far this year away from Marner and Matthews………he has more goals then our top 4 high paid players with 5 goals and 1 assist

 

[Rogue Leader]

Dude don’t be dulsional. Even if his total salary was 10 mill less. If he had the same playoffs he did this past year the reaction would be the same

Yeah, now I got my head straight. Wasn't thinking very rational at that moment. My delusions, sorry boys!

 

[francis246]

if you are picking on Hyman you need to check his stats so far this year away from Marner and Matthews………he has more goals the our top 4 height paid players with 5 goals and 1 assist

yea he’s shooting the lights out this year but what does that have to do with his piss poor playoff performance? He didn’t score last year for us. Good on him for producing this year with Edmonton

 

[HamiltonNHL]

That extra money doesn't come out of mlse's pockets. It comes out of his much poorer teammates pockets.

Exactly.

To have to dump a heart and soul player like Hyman to overpay Marner is a tragedy.

Wait til Rielly walks.

This team will suck even more.

Marner doesn't want to win. He got what he wanted via hostage negotiations.

 

[francis246]

Yeah, now I got my head straight. Wasn't thinking very rational at that moment. My delusions, sorry boys!

nothing to be sorry about. It’s just a forum! It’s made for discussion, people to have their own opinion!

 

[17 Clark]

hes not a f***ing goal scorer, get that through your head. Never has and never will be. Talk to Matthews/Hyman who can’t finish.

hyman especially he had about 5 open looks and managed to f*** it up

Are you junior mints father you gotta be could you teach your kid how to have a spine

 

[Menzinger]

How many industries to people blame the person who got overpaid on the employee and not the person who agreed to it? People just blindly support Dubas for some reason instead of realizing his whole analytics and new approach were hollow pitches of a snake oil salesman.

Though using your analogy if an employee doesn't meet the new set of expectations based on their raise, there tends to be consequences.

I agree that cap management is not the players problem - and Dubas' bares 100% of the responsibility for that (and the earned criticism) BUT Marner asked to be paid like a league superstar, and when he doesn't perform like that on the ice (Habs series, this regular season so far) he's got to deal with his own sets of criticism.

He played hardball in the negotiations (as is his right), essentially got exactly what he wanted. But he's got to deal with the added responsibilities that comes with that - ie leading the team in hard games.