Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

Trade or Keep Marner?

  • Trade Marner

    Votes: 420 67.5%
  • Keep Marner

    Votes: 183 29.4%
  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 19 3.1%

  • Total voters
    622

Captain Crunch

Registered User
Mar 31, 2019
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1. Trying to win the cup is not "throwing away" draft picks, just because you're not the one team that ends up winning. It's what top tier teams do.
2. While we traded some draft picks, we also got some back, and avoided trading all of our top prospects (which many seem to ignore, as they focus so heavily on picks).
3. We had 5 drafts under Dubas, which is a default of 35 draft picks, and we ended up with 35 draft picks under Dubas. Where those picks were slotted made drafting quality more difficult, but Dubas was able to do it, and add on additional young pieces through other avenues - overseas, college, free agency, etc. to supplement. We drastically improved our prospect pool under Dubas, and we now have a number of prospects in or close to the NHL.
4. There is a lag time on when you draft a prospect and when they provide quality NHL depth. The majority of drafted prospects that would have helped us during Dubas' tenure would have been coming from pre-Dubas drafting, when we were rebuilding and on the rise. Dubas's drafting will primarily impact last year (where we had Knies excelling in the playoffs, Robertson and Holmberg looking good in the regular season, and a bunch of injury fill-ins that held their own) and the next few years.

You can be upset at or concerned about the futures that were moved if you want, but recognize that those deals improved our depth during this past half decade, not hurt it.

It doesn't matter how much they've made. It doesn't change that they deserve to be treated like everybody else. These are all millionaires, but I'd rather the money go to the millionaires that most help the team and that most generate and earn that money.

Not only is that not true, but they're already leaving millions on the table. Signing a "market value" contract as a top tier player in this league is inherently leaving millions on the table. And yet some fans will never be satisfied. Not exercising their true earning potential, and accepting multi-million dollar underpayments relative to their impact that are consistent with their peers is not enough. They need to give up million on top of that? If anybody is greedy, it's the fans, not the players.

Our players are totally committed to winning. You're not going to get any better by selling off our top tier core and going back into the lottery. You'll just waste a decade and then, if you're lucky, get a lesser core that you'll think the same things about when they don't immediately win or take unprecedented underpayment contracts.
So we have three players making more than $
1. Trying to win the cup is not "throwing away" draft picks, just because you're not the one team that ends up winning. It's what top tier teams do.
2. While we traded some draft picks, we also got some back, and avoided trading all of our top prospects (which many seem to ignore, as they focus so heavily on picks).
3. We had 5 drafts under Dubas, which is a default of 35 draft picks, and we ended up with 35 draft picks under Dubas. Where those picks were slotted made drafting quality more difficult, but Dubas was able to do it, and add on additional young pieces through other avenues - overseas, college, free agency, etc. to supplement. We drastically improved our prospect pool under Dubas, and we now have a number of prospects in or close to the NHL.
4. There is a lag time on when you draft a prospect and when they provide quality NHL depth. The majority of drafted prospects that would have helped us during Dubas' tenure would have been coming from pre-Dubas drafting, when we were rebuilding and on the rise. Dubas's drafting will primarily impact last year (where we had Knies excelling in the playoffs, Robertson and Holmberg looking good in the regular season, and a bunch of injury fill-ins that held their own) and the next few years.

You can be upset at or concerned about the futures that were moved if you want, but recognize that those deals improved our depth during this past half decade, not hurt it.

It doesn't matter how much they've made. It doesn't change that they deserve to be treated like everybody else. These are all millionaires, but I'd rather the money go to the millionaires that most help the team and that most generate and earn that money.

Not only is that not true, but they're already leaving millions on the table. Signing a "market value" contract as a top tier player in this league is inherently leaving millions on the table. And yet some fans will never be satisfied. Not exercising their true earning potential, and accepting multi-million dollar underpayments relative to their impact that are consistent with their peers is not enough. They need to give up million on top of that? If anybody is greedy, it's the fans, not the players.

Our players are totally committed to winning. You're not going to get any better by selling off our top tier core and going back into the lottery. You'll just waste a decade and then, if you're lucky, get a lesser core that you'll think the same things about when they don't immediately win or take unprecedented underpayment contracts.
Those “deals” have helped us win one measly playoff round in the 5 years we’ve had Tavares. It’s not like we’ve gone on any runs in the playoffs, quite the opposite. And how many of those “deals” are still with the team? Meanwhile, take a look at how many picke we have over the next 3 years!!! Better hope Tre, unlike Dubas, can find some hidden gems in this time. smh

So if these prima donnas “deserve” what they’ve earned so far, I’m wondering why other teams haven’t done the same with their players? Simple, it’s because we overpaid them on their last contracts, not to mention the term and NTCs they got.

For sure they seem to be committed to two things, get as much as you can (deserve, lol) and for the term that’s best for you, (just like every player on all the other teams do, hahaha)!
 

notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
11,337
9,271
The team isn't imbalanced at all. We were in fact very balanced in our offense, defense, and goaltending results last year.
Boston does not qualify. Neither Bergeron or Marchand were remotely close to 10m+ players when they signed their contracts.
All of Matthews, Marner, and Tavares were worth 10m+ contracts then they signed their contracts.
Ok, this should be good for a laugh.

Please tell my why you think Marchand, with six consecutive ppg seasons, isn't better than either Marner or Tavares.
 
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Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
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Off ice xgoals vs off ice xgoals:
Playoff on ice xgoals vs off ice xgoals:

All the highest paid NHL players were at the top of this list. Of the top paid players, Marner is lowest:

Matthews : on ice: 64.8 off ice: 44.9
Nylander: on ice: 64 off ice: 49
Tavares: on ice: 62.6 off ice: 46.9
Marner: on ice: 58.4 off ice: 47.7

Here's a few other high paid players:

Mcdavid: on ice: 61.8 off ice: 41.2
Mackinnon: on ice: 62 off ice: 45.9
Matthew Tkachuk: 62.9 off ice: 36
Kaprizov: 63.9 off ice: 37.8

Playoff stats seem to contradict your thoughts.
Coming from the guy who published bullshit discredited stats from berkshire that tried to do the same thing that this one did. What a joke. You really shouldn't play with matches. You aren't even unqualified...you are disqualified.
 

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
15,107
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Coming from the guy who published bullshit discredited stats from berkshire that tried to do the same thing that this one did. What a joke. You really shouldn't play with matches. You aren't even unqualified...you are disqualified.
Gasp! Did you catch Bershire marketing Manscape products too!

Good thing we have you and your "you played hockey" background to teach us all about what's important and what's not!
 
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Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
16,376
11,467
Gasp! Did you catch Bershire marketing Manscape products too!

Good thing we have you and your "you played hockey" background to teach us all about what's important and what's not!
Important is understanding basic things like xg not contain pre puck movement associated with passing playmaking from behind the net, royal road or other things.
But go ahead and redefine the metric when it doesn't go your way. Important is factual.
 

ZEBROA

Registered User
Dec 21, 2017
3,795
2,368
Starting to switch to trade both Marner and Nylander these threads that i first found amusung are now getting boooring. Let Matthews and Tavares take that load from fans and media.

We would probably not win the trades.
 
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Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
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Ok, this should be good for a laugh.
Please tell my why you think Marchand, with six consecutive ppg seasons, isn't better than either Marner or Tavares.
Marchand didn't have six PPG seasons. In fact, he had a grand total of zero PPG seasons.
Why don't you tell me why a player with a career high of 61 points and a career high pace of 65 points deserved 13.7+% of the cap in 2016?
Should be good for a laugh indeed.
 

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
21,133
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Those “deals” have helped us win one measly playoff round in the 5 years we’ve had Tavares. It’s not like we’ve gone on any runs in the playoffs, quite the opposite. And how many of those “deals” are still with the team? Meanwhile, take a look at how many picke we have over the next 3 years!!! Better hope Tre, unlike Dubas, can find some hidden gems in this time.
We're not one of the few teams that have won the cup in that time, but that doesn't make trying to win the wrong choice, and it doesn't change the fact that those deals increased our depth over these past 5 years, not decreased it. In terms of our big deadline additions, 4 were here longer than that year (Muzzin, Campbell, Giordano, McCabe), and 2 weren't (O'Rielly, Foligno). That's not bad, and who knows - maybe Dubas would have been able to keep O'Rielly.

The loss of picks over the past few years could have theoretically impacted Treliving's tenure, but Dubas drafted well, found gems, kept all of his top prospects, and the prospect pool and internal options that Treliving got handed ended up pretty good. He'll get more internal help from his previous GM(s) than Dubas did.
And for the record, we have 19 out of what would be 21 defaulted picks over the next 3 years. Hopefully Treliving continues on Dubas' good drafting.
So if these prima donnas “deserve” what they’ve earned so far, I’m wondering why other teams haven’t done the same with their players?
They literally have. We aren't doing anything different with Matthews/Marner than other teams are with their players. The only difference, that some people refuse to accept, is that our players have proven to be better and have earned bigger contracts than many of the others people point to.
For sure they seem to be committed to two things, get as much as you can (deserve, lol) and for the term that’s best for you, (just like every player on all the other teams do, hahaha)!
They're committed to the team and to winning. They can be committed while still getting an appropriate contract like everybody else.
 

Captain Crunch

Registered User
Mar 31, 2019
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We're not one of the few teams that have won the cup in that time, but that doesn't make trying to win the wrong choice, and it doesn't change the fact that those deals increased our depth over these past 5 years, not decreased it. In terms of our big deadline additions, 4 were here longer than that year (Muzzin, Campbell, Giordano, McCabe), and 2 weren't (O'Rielly, Foligno). That's not bad, and who knows - maybe Dubas would have been able to keep O'Rielly.

The loss of picks over the past few years could have theoretically impacted Treliving's tenure, but Dubas drafted well, found gems, kept all of his top prospects, and the prospect pool and internal options that Treliving got handed ended up pretty good. He'll get more internal help from his previous GM(s) than Dubas did.
And for the record, we have 19 out of what would be 21 defaulted picks over the next 3 years. Hopefully Treliving continues on Dubas' good drafting.

They literally have. We aren't doing anything different with Matthews/Marner than other teams are with their players. The only difference, that some people refuse to accept, is that our players have proven to be better and have earned bigger contracts than many of the others people point to.

They're committed to the team and to winning. They can be committed while still getting an appropriate contract like everybody else.
For the record, over the next 3 years, how many picks do we have in the top 3 rounds?

You're right about our players having proven to be better, thus earning bigger contracts. They certainly have won some awards for their performances, it’s just that it would have meant so much more if they wold have been able to carry it over into the playoffs! I don’t have it in front of me, yet, but I wonder how well they have done in games 5-7 in the playoffs? It appears the longer a series goes, the fewer points they’re able to get. But I understand, it’s the rest of the players’ faults for not being able to contribute. What an inept management team we must have because they can’t get a proper supporting cast around these 3 “spectacular” players. SMH!

These 3 players feel entitled, and it’s management’s fault that they are that way. Matthews and Marner were basically given the keys to the city, and have never had to defend any of their inability to win when it matters. Nylander is not worth $10 million, his salary should certainly be less than what Aho got, but he’s the one who has to bear the brunt of criticism from Keefe (or should I say all of it). Remember Marner’s temper tantrum he threw on the bench when he had to sit one shift out? Embarrassing! Yet Nylander has had to do it, and probably rightly so the majority of those times, numerous times.

Matthews and Marner have become so hard to like. So far, all that they have shown to me is that they’re all about getting paid! You and I will never agree on this, they were overpaid on their last contracts with no consideration whatsoever for the team. And if Matthews gets more than $13 million this time, he’s only proving my point further? And if this happens, you can be certain Marner will be looking to do the same!
 
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Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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So 5% sample of all games are insufficient accourding to you. Educate me precisely what conclusion I made on the insufficient sample size after you describe precisely why you think it is insufficient.
The statement was made that the leafs would make the playoffs without marner. I provided a stat supported by 5% of the games played that diverged from all the games played that concluded there was no data to support that statement. Then YOU go off on sample size. While I am fully versed on the topic of sample size, you now urge me to get educated on it. Educate me Mr. expert. Lets see what kind of chops you actually have.
Yes there was no data to "support that statement", nobody ever said there was so congrats on your strawman.

As far as your data goes, sample size renders it meaningless. You either
1 - understand that
2 - don't understand that
3 - would understand if your crush on Marner didn't turn your brain into mush whenever he's the topic of conversation

As far as educating you, it's not possible for me to educate someone who behaves like a grade 3 schoolyard bully - it's only possible to learn, if you are capable of listening. But like I said, you lose your mind when it comes to Marner, that's the real problem here. If it was any other player being discussed, you'd know perfectly well that your numbers are useless and you wouldn't dream of making such a ridiculous post.

Off ice xgoals vs off ice xgoals:
Playoff on ice xgoals vs off ice xgoals:

All the highest paid NHL players were at the top of this list. Of the top paid players, Marner is lowest:

Matthews : on ice: 64.8 off ice: 44.9
Nylander: on ice: 64 off ice: 49
Tavares: on ice: 62.6 off ice: 46.9
Marner: on ice: 58.4 off ice: 47.7

Here's a few other high paid players:

Mcdavid: on ice: 61.8 off ice: 41.2
Mackinnon: on ice: 62 off ice: 45.9
Matthew Tkachuk: 62.9 off ice: 36
Kaprizov: 63.9 off ice: 37.8

Playoff stats seem to contradict your thoughts.
That's Marner in a nutshell. Perhaps he's worth 11 million during the regular season, he sure as hell isn't in the playoffs though.
 

Mess

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For the record, over the next 3 years, how many picks do we have in the top 3 rounds?
Leafs top picks next 3 drafts. Leafs don't have a 2nd round pick until 2027.

1690721310987.png


Leafs made the fewest picks of any team the past 3 season combined with 2 of the past 3 drafts making only 3 picks total.. So of a possible 21 picks 2021-2023 drafts Leafs made 11 picks just above 50% participation.

NHL.com just released its current prospect rankings per team and Leafs prospect pool is ranked #25 of 32 and near the bottom of the league.

1690722843478.png


The damage that Dubas did to the Leafs future is substantial and irreversible and the full effects still not felt on future years.

To offset the high cap prices of the Leafs Core 4 it would be your prospect pool and drafting that would do that. Because of the weak prospect pool the talk has switched to trade away some of those big contracts like Marner and Nylander because you can't build a competitive team around them while they use up 1/2 a teams salary cap.
 
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ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
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Leafs top pics next 3 drafts. Leafs don't have a 2nd round pick until 2027.

View attachment 732306

Leafs made the fewest picks of any team the past 3 season combined with 2 of the past 3 drafts making only 3 picks total.. So of a possible 21 picks 2021-2023 drafts Leafs made 11 picks just above 50% participation.

NHL.com just released its current prospect rankings per team and Leafs prospect pool is ranked #25 of 32 and near the bottom of the league.

The damage that Dubas did to the Leafs future is substantial and irreversible and the full effects still not felt on future years.

To offset the high cap prices of the Leafs Core 4 it would be your prospect pool and drafting that would do that. Because of the weak prospect pool the talk has switched to trade away some of those big contracts like Marner and Nylander because you can't build a competitive team around them while they use up 1/2 a teams salary cap.
Lack of picks is Marners fault too?
 
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Mess

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Lack of picks is Marners fault too?
Nope ..

Great player bad contract as you and I and many know Mitch should currently be on his 8 year deal X $8.5 mil and just entering his UFA years this season with 4 more remaining, but Dubas turned that down,

While Marner is not to blame for his contract directly either, that him and his agent took advantage of a naive GM to their benefit, his contract still remains a problem.

With Marner expecting a raise on his next deal, the other option to fix this Leafs cap problem would be to trade him away possibly.

However if Treliving can keep his next contract $$/AAV pretty close to his current one, then we can keep that mistake contained to the past GM only. IMO

PS. With Nylander's asking price and only a NTC and not full NMC that makes Willy the more likely player dealt.
 
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Captain Crunch

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Mar 31, 2019
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Yes there was no data to "support that statement", nobody ever said there was so congrats on your strawman.

As far as your data goes, sample size renders it meaningless. You either
1 - understand that
2 - don't understand that
3 - would understand if your crush on Marner didn't turn your brain into mush whenever he's the topic of conversation

As far as educating you, it's not possible for me to educate someone who behaves like a grade 3 schoolyard bully - it's only possible to learn, if you are capable of listening. But like I said, you lose your mind when it comes to Marner, that's the real problem here. If it was any other player being discussed, you'd know perfectly well that your numbers are useless and you wouldn't dream of making such a ridiculous post.


That's Marner in a nutshell. Perhaps he's worth 11 million during the regular season, he sure as hell isn't in the playoffs though.
Add this onto that:

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018

• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games

• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games

• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games

• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games

• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games

• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games

• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

He definitely has less of an impact the longer the series goes!
 

Captain Crunch

Registered User
Mar 31, 2019
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We're not one of the few teams that have won the cup in that time, but that doesn't make trying to win the wrong choice, and it doesn't change the fact that those deals increased our depth over these past 5 years, not decreased it. In terms of our big deadline additions, 4 were here longer than that year (Muzzin, Campbell, Giordano, McCabe), and 2 weren't (O'Rielly, Foligno). That's not bad, and who knows - maybe Dubas would have been able to keep O'Rielly.

The loss of picks over the past few years could have theoretically impacted Treliving's tenure, but Dubas drafted well, found gems, kept all of his top prospects, and the prospect pool and internal options that Treliving got handed ended up pretty good. He'll get more internal help from his previous GM(s) than Dubas did.
And for the record, we have 19 out of what would be 21 defaulted picks over the next 3 years. Hopefully Treliving continues on Dubas' good drafting.

They literally have. We aren't doing anything different with Matthews/Marner than other teams are with their players. The only difference, that some people refuse to accept, is that our players have proven to be better and have earned bigger contracts than many of the others people point to.

They're committed to the team and to winning. They can be committed while still getting an appropriate contract like everybody else.
We are all aware of the Toronto Maple Leafs’ record of futility in the playoffs. No other team in the history of the NHL has made the playoffs five seasons in a row and lost all five first-round series. To make matters worse and their record even more futile, the Maple Leafs took all five rounds to the seventh game before losing.

Yup, Matthews and Marner definitely deserve to “get paid for the records they’re setting”. Lol
But hey, they finally won a round this year, only to go out quietly the next round. Be sure to give them their “much-deserved” raises! smh
 

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
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For the record, over the next 3 years, how many picks do we have in the top 3 rounds?
We have two 1st round picks and three 3rd round picks, and an abundance of picks in later rounds, with all of our top prospects still in the system. Which is pretty good for a consistent top tier team, and more than what Dubas was able to find good pieces and improve our prospect pool with. If Treliving isn't able to draft as well as Dubas, the lack of 2nds could impact us a bit in the late 2020s and into the early 2030s, but it doesn't have much relevance to what internal options or depth we've had over the past 5 years or right now.
You're right about our players having proven to be better, thus earning bigger contracts. They certainly have won some awards for their performances, it’s just that it would have meant so much more if they wold have been able to carry it over into the playoffs!
What people miss is that they largely have carried their play over to the playoffs - especially when healthy. The only thing that hasn't carried over to the playoffs as much is production in a select few series (two of which Matthews was injured in), but that's not a result of our players performing worse. It's a result of running into external situations in a few series that would and did decrease the production of anybody that runs into it. An individual forward is only part of the equation that determines production. We use it as a rough proxy for a forward's offensive quality because over a regular season or multiple regular seasons, many of the external factors smooth out and trend towards what is internally driven, but those external factors do not equalize in the playoffs, since we're talking about small samples against vastly different singular teams and goalies over a short period of time.

You can have two forwards of the exact same offensive quality give the exact same performance over a series, and end up with massively different raw production. It doesn't mean one was better than the other. It means that their situations were different.
I don’t have it in front of me, yet, but I wonder how well they have done in games 5-7 in the playoffs?
Probably not as bad as most people think, but I don't know or care, because all playoff games matter. Playoff series in general tend to get lower scoring closer to the end of a series.
These 3 players feel entitled, and it’s management’s fault that they are that way.
The players are not entitled. The fans are. And management didn't do anything to make anything any way. They just re-signed their top players to appropriate contracts like every other management team does with their players.
Nylander is not worth $10 million, his salary should certainly be less than what Aho got, but he’s the one who has to bear the brunt of criticism from Keefe (or should I say all of it).
Nylander likely won't get 10m, but he has a good case for being worth a similar amount to somebody like Aho.
His ask has nothing to do with getting deserved criticism from Keefe. Nobody has been given special treatment relative to Nylander.
Nylander just has more moments to criticize and aspects of his play to improve from a coaching perspective than somebody like Matthews/Marner.
Keefe and Nylander have also spoken on the type of coaching style he prefers, which can differ from player to player.
Remember Marner’s temper tantrum he threw on the bench when he had to sit one shift out?
No, because it never happened.
Matthews and Marner have become so hard to like.
They're actually pretty easy to like when you don't arbitrarily refuse to like them for no reason. These are some of the best players this team will have in our lifetimes, homegrown no less, and they seem really committed to improving, and winning, and winning here. Not to mention the quality of them as individuals, and the amount they help the community.
they were overpaid on their last contracts with no consideration whatsoever for the team.
That's not true, of course. They were not overpaid, and there was consideration for the team and what worked well for the team.
No other team in the history of the NHL has made the playoffs five seasons in a row and lost all five first-round series.
To make matters worse and their record even more futile, the Maple Leafs took all five rounds to the seventh game before losing.
Primarily because a team being good enough to make the playoffs five seasons in a row, especially directly after being the worst team in the league with their core starting as teenagers, is really rare. And taking each series to the limit isn't a bad thing. Lots of teams and cores didn't win a cup by this point of their core's progression.
You're putting way too much emphasis on rounds, without the context of what actually happened, and what they actually faced.
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Add this onto that:

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018

• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games

• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games

• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games

• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games

• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games

• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games

• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

He definitely has less of an impact the longer the series goes!
Holy smokes. I mean I knew this is what was happening, I just didn't realize the drop-off was that steep.

Games 5-6-7, 17 games, 7 assists and 1 goal. The opposite of clutch, hard to understand why so many seem to worship this guy.
 

IPS

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Sep 28, 2017
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Add this onto that:

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018

• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games

• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games

• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games

• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games

• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games

• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games

• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

He definitely has less of an impact the longer the series goes!
Pretty much confirms what a lot of us have seen for awhile.

When the series really starts tightening up that's when Marner gets worse. I mean 1 goal all time in games 3-7 is just rough.

It's up to Mitch to change this, we all know he's got the potential to.
 

Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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Great player bad contract as you and I and many know Mitch should currently be on his 8 year deal X $8.5 mil and just entering his UFA years this season with 4 more remaining, but Dubas turned that down,
Dubas never turned down an 8.5m x 8 year deal. That's not a deal that ever existed as an option.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Games 5-6-7, 17 games, 7 assists and 1 goal. The opposite of clutch, hard to understand why so many seem to worship this guy.
It's like the opposite of Patrick Kane who always seemed to produce his best late in the series when it was needed most.
 
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Dekes For Days

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It's like the opposite of Patrick Kane who always seemed to produce his best late in the series when it was needed most.
In the 2011, 2012, and 2013 playoffs, Kane failed to produce a single point in the final game of 5 out of 6 series.
It didn't mean he was a bad playoff performer.
Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018
• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games
We haven't even had 8 game 1s since Boston in 2018, for the record. Not sure where you got your numbers.
 

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