Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[Gary Nylund]

You're absolutely right as fans that's all we want and with this core it's a whimper. I hate fans comparing our core and team to others and how long it may have taken to get to hoisting the Cup. For me it's not solely about winning it all but the compete level, grit, showing up for every game which clearly isn't the case with this bunch. If game 3 against Florida wasn't enough to make you want to ship some of these guys I don't know what is. M&M were both no shows in a crucial game when we were down 2-0.

Well said. There's not enough advanced stats in the world to excuse that stinker of a performance. I've been watching for 50+ years and out of all the low points (and there have been many), that's the lowest one for me.

 

[Gabriel426]

I'm not disagreeing who the better player is. If you take everything into account age, position, salary, potential it's not as cut and dry as you think and if the Leafs offered Mitch straight up for Zegras I strongly feel Anaheim declines.

I don’t think Ducks will decline. Bc the question is will Zegras be a better than current MM or will they be at the same level in the next 7 yrs. MM is not even close to 30 and don’t think age is a matter in this trade. Maybe Zegras will become a better player than MM 10 yrs from now but that’s too far to plan.
The sticking point might actually be marketing where Zegras due to his goals is a lot more marketable than MM and Ducks might prefer that to attract fans than having MM.

 

[thewave]

"Marner fans" what utter stupidity.

They are a class of their own now. It almost precludes the from being real leafs fans. Everyone knows the cap and what he does in the PO. You want fancy regular seasons go Mitch go.

Players are talking honestly about it. They saw game 3. Everyone knows the shambles.

 

[PromisedLand]

Can someone else will Marner trade to happen for the betterment of this franchise? My Super Saiyan energy ain't working

 

[Antropovsky]

"Marner fans" what utter stupidity.

.... There is a select group of posters on this board who attack anyone who posts anything critical of Marner. If your overly critical then your a troll, and not a leaf fan. Yet they don't defend Tavares, Matthews, Nylander or Rielly the same way.

They literally compared Marner to Gretzky.

I call these members the "marner fans" they know who they are. I do this not to insult the rest of leafs fans and I do it on response to them continually telling me I'm not a leaf fan because I think it's sensible to trade Marner and spend his cap elsewhere.

 

[leafs in five]

.... There is a select group of posters on this board who attack anyone who posts anything critical of Marner. If your overly critical then your a troll, and not a leaf fan.

a few posts above yours is one by thewave saying that being a 'Marner fan' precludes someone from being a 'real Leafs fan'. because of his cap hit and so on. pretty bizarre stuff imo

 

[Antropovsky]

[

a few posts above yours is one by thewave saying that being a 'Marner fan' precludes someone from being a 'real Leafs fan'. because of his cap hit and so on. pretty bizarre stuff imo

I don't care what other posters are saying, I'm responding to someones response to my post. I once was a player fan, I was a big fan of Cujo in Edmonton. He went to Toronto and I continued to watch Cujo and became a Leaf fan and quit watching Edmonton. However, I know that I'm a leaf fan now and no matter what player comes or goes that's how it always will be. The fact that anyone says if you don't like x player than your not a leaf fan...or sign off this board because your critical of Marner... Is ridiculous to me. If you feel that way than your a "player fan" and it's not controversial or idiotic to say that.

 

[hamzarocks]

.... There is a select group of posters on this board who attack anyone who posts anything critical of Marner. If your overly critical then your a troll, and not a leaf fan. Yet they don't defend Tavares, Matthews, Nylander or Rielly the same way.

They literally compared Marner to Gretzky.

I call these members the "marner fans" they know who they are. I do this not to insult the rest of leafs fans and I do it on response to them continually telling me I'm not a leaf fan because I think it's sensible to trade Marner and spend his cap elsewhere.

There's Matthews fans over here who consider himto be better than Draisaitl, Mack, and near McDavid

There are tavares fans who pretend he is worth his contract and would have gotten 13M elsewhere as a UFA

There are nylander fans who pretend his holdout didnt cost us our best chance at a cup in 2019, and that he has defensive and intensity issues

Our big 4 are all overrated and 3 of the 4 are overpaid, only nylander isn't overpaid

 

[leafs in five]

I don't care what other posters are saying, I'm responding to someones response to my post. I once was a player fan, I was a big fan of Cujo in Edmonton. He went to Toronto and I continued to watch Cujo and became a Leaf fan and quit watching Edmonton. However, I know that I'm a leaf fan now and no matter what player comes or goes that's how it always will be. The fact that anyone says if you don't like x player than your not a leaf fan...or sign off this board because your critical of Marner... Is ridiculous to me. If you feel that way than your a "player fan" and it's not controversial or idiotic to say that.

I think you are arguing mostly with yourself/people you have concocted in your head

 

[Antropovsky]

There's Matthews fans over consider him better than Draisaitl, Mack, and near McDavid

There are tavares fans who pretend he is worth his contract and would have gotten 13M elsewhere as a UFA

Thete are nylander fans who pretend his holdout didnt cost us lur best cha ce at a cup in 2019, and that he has defensive and intensity issues

Our big 4 are all overrated and 3 of the 4 are overpaid, only nylander isn't overpaid

Matthews one year ago, won the Ted Lindsey, the Hart trophy and the Rocket. The ted Lindsey is voted by his peers as the most outstanding player. It's not far fetched to say he might be better than Draisaitl, Mackinnon.

Marner fans were actually engaging in comparing him to Gretzky.

But I'm not here to argue these things... Show me a post where any poster is being called a troll for being critical of Matthews, Tavares or Nylander. Show me another instance where someone is being told they aren't leaf fans because they are critical of those players. Show me another thread where a few posters have hunkered down in an appreciation thread and overtake any critical statement and demand the mods remove them from the "appreciation thread". Btw I've been on these boards since 2007, and this is the first I heard of an apparent rule of no critical comments are allowed in "player appreciation threads".

I think you are arguing mostly with yourself/people you have concocted in your head

I know you are but what am I?

You've been on these boards for 16 years and are posting these childish rebuttals? Don't you have something better to do than sling childrens insults on message boards? What's next, something about my mom?

 

[Gabriel426]

Can someone else will Marner trade to happen for the betterment of this franchise? My Super Saiyan energy ain't working

Bc Super Saiyan energy is so 90s. The most powerful Saiyan energy is Ultra Instinct

 

[hamzarocks]

Matthews one year ago, won the Ted Lindsey, the Hart trophy and the Rocket. The ted Lindsey is voted by his peers as the most outstanding player. It's not far fetched to say he might be better than Draisaitl, Mackinnon.

Marner fans were actually engaging in comparing him to Gretzky.

But I'm not here to argue these things... Show me a post where any poster is being called a troll for being critical of Matthews, Tavares or Nylander. Show me another instance where someone is being told they aren't leaf fans because they are critical of those players. Show me another thread where a few posters have hunkered down in an appreciation thread and overtake any critical statement and demand the mods remove them from the "appreciation thread". Btw I've been on these boards since 2007, and this is the first I heard of an apparent rule of no critical comments are allowed in "player appreciation threads".


I know you are but what am I?

You've been on these boards for 16 years and are posting these childish rebuttals? Don't you have something better to do than sling childrens insults on message boards? What's next, something about my mom?

Ppl rag on you b/c youve been ragging on marner for years

People are absolutely called idiots/trolls for calling out 34/88/91. Ive been told I'm a troll b/c I dont think any of those guys are as good as their fanboys make them out to be.

Appreciation threads - this has been the sentiment since Dubas/Matthews era

I remember kessel/phaneuf appreciation threads did get posters calling them out and discussion continued

Ever Since Matthews era began and more inti dubas period, this fandom has been increasingly defensive and soft.

Only this offseason have people foubd it okay to question our previous GM/managmeent and current core players.

There are too many posters who are fans/haters of specific players than the team.

None of the core 4 have done anything for the leafs in the playoffs.

We need to stop pretending like aby of them are untouchable/unquestionables

If you want to question Marners value and contributions that is fair. Just like how his fans want to defend him.

We just need to accept Mitch Marner or Auston Matthews aren't the Toronto Maple Leafs. We can't cave and pretend these guys are pur saviours. They've been extremely entitled and failed to deliver *along with 91 and 88

 

[Gabriel426]

There's Matthews fans over consider him better than Draisaitl, Mack, and near McDavid

There are tavares fans who pretend he is worth his contract and would have gotten 13M elsewhere as a UFA

Thete are nylander fans who pretend his holdout didnt cost us lur best cha ce at a cup in 2019, and that he has defensive and intensity issues

Our big 4 are all overrated and 3 of the 4 are overpaid, only nylander isn't overpaid

You forgot Dubas fans who think every bargain he signed are great and will help the Leafs win the Cup.

Can’t seem to find any Keefe fans though.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

[
I don't care what other posters are saying, I'm responding to someones response to my post. I once was a player fan, I was a big fan of Cujo in Edmonton. He went to Toronto and I continued to watch Cujo and became a Leaf fan and quit watching Edmonton. However, I know that I'm a leaf fan now and no matter what player comes or goes that's how it always will be. The fact that anyone says if you don't like x player than your not a leaf fan...or sign off this board because your critical of Marner... Is ridiculous to me. If you feel that way than your a "player fan" and it's not controversial or idiotic to say that.

 

[notDatsyuk]

There's Matthews fans over here who consider himto be better than Draisaitl, Mack, and near McDavid

There are tavares fans who pretend he is worth his contract and would have gotten 13M elsewhere as a UFA

There are nylander fans who pretend his holdout didnt cost us our best chance at a cup in 2019, and that he has defensive and intensity issues

Our big 4 are all overrated and 3 of the 4 are overpaid, only nylander isn't overpaid

All true, although I don't think the others are as willfully blind as a couple of the Marner fans.

 

[Gabriel426]

You're absolutely right as fans that's all we want and with this core it's a whimper. I hate fans comparing our core and team to others and how long it may have taken to get to hoisting the Cup. For me it's not solely about winning it all but the compete level, grit, showing up for every game which clearly isn't the case with this bunch. If game 3 against Florida wasn't enough to make you want to ship some of these guys I don't know what is. M&M were both no shows in a crucial game when we were down 2-0.

just look at their post game presser after Game 3 and look at the Celtics post game presser after Game 3 and if tell me they felt the same way or whatever, you are living in a very delusional World.
One team was disappointed and ashamed of their performance and other was we lost Game 3, just need to do better…

 

[leafs in five]

You've been on these boards for 16 years and are posting these childish rebuttals? Don't you have something better to do than sling childrens insults on message boards? What's next, something about my mom?

I have posted many sincere responses to what I think are excessively negative assessments, very plainly, of Leafs RW Mitch Marner. But sorry when you describe people who are fans of players as opposed to true fans of a team you are clearly kind of describing yourself, or a version of it that you moved on from post-Cujo. And this isn't a childish insult imo but whatever.

 

[leafs in five]

but yeah I have been on these boards since 2007, for a significant period of this time the Leafs were clearly the most incompetent organisation in the league, and I have never found this place to be as negative about the team and its players and the people who like the players on the team as it is presently.

just look at their post game presser after Game 3 and look at the Celtics post game presser after Game 3 and if tell me they felt the same way or whatever, you are living in a very delusional World.
One team was disappointed and ashamed of their performance and other was we lost Game 3, just need to do better…

what happened to the celtics in that series?

 

[ACC1224]

Ppl rag on you b/c youve been ragging on marner for years

People are absolutely called idiots/trolls for calling out 34/88/91. Ive been told I'm a troll b/c I dont think any of those guys are as good as their fanboys make them out to be.

Appreciation threads - this has been the sentiment since Dubas/Matthews era

I remember kessel/phaneuf appreciation threads did get posters calling them out and discussion continued

Ever Since Matthews era began and more inti dubas period, this fandom has been increasingly defensive and soft.

Only this offseason have people foubd it okay to question our previous GM/managmeent and current core players.

There are too many posters who are fans/haters of specific players than the team.

None of the core 4 have done anything for the leafs in the playoffs.

We need to stop pretending like aby of them are untouchable/unquestionables

If you want to question Marners value and contributions that is fair. Just like how his fans want to defend him.

We just need to accept Mitch Marner or Auston Matthews aren't the Toronto Maple Leafs. We can't cave and pretend these guys are pur saviours. They've been extremely entitled and failed to deliver *along with 91 and 88

This .
There are a few here that post the same hateful garbage every day. I'm guessing they really don't understand the game very well, seems pretty apparent.
Easy to ignore but bizarre all the same.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This .
There are a few here that post the same hateful garbage every day. I'm guessing they really don't understand the game very well, seems pretty apparent.
Easy to ignore but bizarre all the same.

I think you need to read the post again. I don't see it as supporting your Marner Love, and your love of the Core 4, at all.

 

[Da Mash]

You're absolutely right as fans that's all we want and with this core it's a whimper. I hate fans comparing our core and team to others and how long it may have taken to get to hoisting the Cup. For me it's not solely about winning it all but the compete level, grit, showing up for every game which clearly isn't the case with this bunch. If game 3 against Florida wasn't enough to make you want to ship some of these guys I don't know what is. M&M were both no shows in a crucial game when we were down 2-0.

Im good with the playoff rules...for me that is thereal in the trenches dig deep gut check time hockey that makes it so interesting. Who wants to watch disney on ice in the playoffs? It is the same for everyone so...all I hear from you is sour grapes and excuses. Its a war and like a poster in here said the leafs always bring a knife to a gun fight and that knife is usually a plastic one. You could always watch womens hockey...I hear they arent allowed to hit.

Ill take a a team full of Wendal Clarks, Gilmours and Tucker, Roberts any day over this bunch. There is a reason people still talk and pine for players like that. Those guys had the fire in the belly that I dont see an ounce of from our top guys.

Its not about winning the cup for me though that would be nice. Only one team wins I get that but what I need to see is a team that will lay it all on the line and play for each other. If they do that I can live with it.

McKinnon plays hard and with the fire that I want to see from our guys so I dont know what your getting at.

I dont care what other sports do...Stanley is the hardest cup to win for a reason. Again I dont hear too many other teams and fans complaining that its not fair....they adjust and do what needs to be done or they dont and they fall by the wayside.

Putting down the team and trashing the players that took us out in 5? Id take Gudas on our D punishing opposing players but if that isnt your thing.

Saying Gilmours Clarks got paid?.....yikes...in comparison its not even in the same stratosphere as our boys..

I wanna see my team go down with a fight and not a whimper. Dont see how that is so unreasonable.

Sorry I dont agree....

All playing by the same rules in playoffs is a poor excuse.

You build your team on ONE set of rules the NHL have put out. Every professional sport does this.

We didnt see Tom Brady get pile driven in playoffs as the rules didnt change. You dont see LeBron get elbowed constantly in playoffs because the rules didnt change.

But in the NHL it is accepted by alot of fans that all of a sudden.....playoff hockey is all about showing aggressiveness....and deem it "Heart" which in fact it isnt heart....its that they can get away with cheap shots and late hits...that is all. They got penalized in regular season and in playoffs refs turn a blind eye.

All because the rules change....and if you dont want to admit it or not....the rules benefit the goons. Look at Chariot....got a big contract and trade value because he was some sort of stud in playoffs with the Habs and he really is just a bum player and only excels in playoffs because when your slow and cant skate....you can interfere...crosscheck...and try to bully players without any consequences.

Not all players have to look like Tucker or Gillmour or as you mentioned Gudas to have heart. Did you see Gretzky or Lemieux, Kane...Bossy...etc ....fight? or play dirty? They were all pretty stoic in their play like many others.....But I never hear fans complain they had no heart....

You say our players dont compete enough....and it was said that Mathews had a very high level of it.....same with Marner. But when the camera go on them in scrums.....Fans complain because they dont get involved in glove washes to the face and all that other crap that happens after the whistle.

I bet you thought Sundin didnt have a compete level too.

We have no idea how much fire some have in their belly. You can claim Clark and Glilly and all those other leafs had it....because they supposedly showed it on their sleeve but that means very little in judging someones character.

I’m sorry but I dont get into all that show....played alot ....seen them come and go. Seen players be the silent assassins and also seen alot of players act like fools after the whistle...couldnt skate worth a crap or pass the puck but they sure could do a great glove wash and if you got the better of them in trash talking....then they wanted to fight to show you who the man was.......hahaha..

But yeah.....I do agree changes have to be made......but I also feel very lucky to see one of the best leaf teams I have seen in over 50 yrs of watching the leafs. Even with all their flaws and no stability in nets....they put up record numbers.

All for not to some.....I mean....we keep on hearing how ROR was a great add, a playoff warrior and please resign him again.....but he showed less pushback then all our stars.....damn...even Holl had a fight. ......but not a peep from anyone that he didnt compete enough ....

Funny how perception works....

 

[Mess]

Marner Called Out

We all know that regular season hockey is far different from playoff hockey. The regular season is where the Leafs thrive because games are officiated tighter and the Leafs are able to use their speed, and creativity to create offensive chances and can get into "track meets". In the playoffs, however, the Leafs struggle to create that same space and struggle to use their speed because the game becomes much more of a clutch and grab type of game and far less is called by officials.

Becoming a tougher team is something that new GM Brad Treliving has shown to be important in the past, particularly on the blueline, so we should expect some changes throughout the summer in that regard. Those changes will not come at the cost of any "Core 4" members, judging from what has been reported thus far.

On this morning's Leafs' Morning Take, former Leaf Jay Rosehill called out the Leafs' soft play in the playoffs, and specifically ripped superstar winger Mitch Marner, stating that he does not believe that the Leafs will ever win a Stanley Cup with Marner on the team.

"For what you can get for Mitch Marner [in a trade]... he's so soft. I don't even know if he can pick up the Stanley Cup. I just don't think he can take you to the promised land. You see how beaten up the Panthers were at the end of the Finals - that's what it takes... I just fear that every single time, Marner is going to fall off because he wasn't willing to go to war. He's just a fresh-faced, nice kid who likes to do toe drags... but he's not going to go to war for you and I just can't picture him hoisting that Stanley Cup after being beaten up for two months," said Rosehill of Marner's failure to adapt in the post-season.

While Marner isn't the biggest or strongest player, Rosehill isn't asking him to throw hits or anything, he is simply asking Marner to go into the dirty areas and engage in those battles in the corners or in front of the net instead of hanging out in the high slot waiting for the puck to come to him to create a play, because when the puck doesn't come to him, he and his creativity are entirely neutralized.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sorry I dont agree....

All playing by the same rules in playoffs is a poor excuse.

You build your team on ONE set of rules the NHL have put out. Every professional sport does this.

We didnt see Tom Brady get pile driven in playoffs as the rules didnt change. You dont see LeBron get elbowed constantly in playoffs because the rules didnt change.

But in the NHL it is accepted by alot of fans that all of a sudden.....playoff hockey is all about showing aggressiveness....and deem it "Heart" which in fact it isnt heart....its that they can get away with cheap shots and late hits...that is all. They got penalized in regular season and in playoffs refs turn a blind eye.

All because the rules change....and if you dont want to admit it or not....the rules benefit the goons. Look at Chariot....got a big contract and trade value because he was some sort of stud in playoffs with the Habs and he really is just a bum player and only excels in playoffs because when your slow and cant skate....you can interfere...crosscheck...and try to bully players without any consequences.

The NHL is different from other sports in this regard so the bolded is incorrect. The game changes in the playoffs, you can like it or not like it but it's a fact.

If you want to win the cup, you need to consider this fact when building your team. The Leafs currently aren't built for the playoffs and until the makeup of the team changes, they'll probably continue to do very well during the regular season and not so well once the playoffs start.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner Called Out

We all know that regular season hockey is far different from playoff hockey. The regular season is where the Leafs thrive because games are officiated tighter and the Leafs are able to use their speed, and creativity to create offensive chances and can get into "track meets". In the playoffs, however, the Leafs struggle to create that same space and struggle to use their speed because the game becomes much more of a clutch and grab type of game and far less is called by officials.

Becoming a tougher team is something that new GM Brad Treliving has shown to be important in the past, particularly on the blueline, so we should expect some changes throughout the summer in that regard. Those changes will not come at the cost of any "Core 4" members, judging from what has been reported thus far.

On this morning's Leafs' Morning Take, former Leaf Jay Rosehill called out the Leafs' soft play in the playoffs, and specifically ripped superstar winger Mitch Marner, stating that he does not believe that the Leafs will ever win a Stanley Cup with Marner on the team.

"For what you can get for Mitch Marner [in a trade]... he's so soft. I don't even know if he can pick up the Stanley Cup. I just don't think he can take you to the promised land. You see how beaten up the Panthers were at the end of the Finals - that's what it takes... I just fear that every single time, Marner is going to fall off because he wasn't willing to go to war. He's just a fresh-faced, nice kid who likes to do toe drags... but he's not going to go to war for you and I just can't picture him hoisting that Stanley Cup after being beaten up for two months," said Rosehill of Marner's failure to adapt in the post-season.

While Marner isn't the biggest or strongest player, Rosehill isn't asking him to throw hits or anything, he is simply asking Marner to go into the dirty areas and engage in those battles in the corners or in front of the net instead of hanging out in the high slot waiting for the puck to come to him to create a play, because when the puck doesn't come to him, he and his creativity are entirely neutralized.

That's pretty idiotic, auditioning for his new career.
Saying stupid things seems to be the best way to get attention. We see that here daily.

 

[Gabriel426]

but yeah I have been on these boards since 2007, for a significant period of this time the Leafs were clearly the most incompetent organisation in the league, and I have never found this place to be as negative about the team and its players and the people who like the players on the team as it is presently.


what happened to the celtics in that series?

They dominated 3 straight games and lost. They actually put up a fight.