Mitch Marner (post playoffs) discussion thread continued...

[Eternal Leaf]

what did he write???

This is what he wrote.

This all stems from Marner’s unwillingness to play the goal-line at 5v4, which you can fact-check by asking the right people. Toronto’s best version of their power play all season was Nylander and Marner rotating along the left wall, with one of them playing the goal-line as a passer. It gave the top unit more flexibility, opened up passing lanes, created more motion and unpredictability.

But their $11 million winger wasn’t willing to do it.

 

[Subway Schenn]

Imagine he signed something like 9.5x6 without any of that drama. People would currently be a little "down" on him... but not belligerent. And maybe he would have played much better without that contract negotiation monkey on his back. Was that extra money worth this pressure? I just don't understand.

Go to any person in the street and say:

"2 choices.

1. I give you 65 million dollars over the next 6 years, but it will be outrageous pressure and your whole city will turn on you on a dime.

2. I give you 57 million dollars over the next 6 years, and you'll be the hometown hero with far less pressure... oh, and your team will be able to spend more on other players"

Ask anybody. They'll all take #2. Everybody. Why? Because you will have the PRECISE same lifestyle either way, so why not enjoy living as the top 0.000001% without the extra pressure? I simply don't understand the greed of these people.

Greed poisons everything. It sickens me to see it from a hometown boy with skill out of the ears.

 

[666]

except Kane is 10 times the player MM will be.

It will be hard to know until we get a Duncan Keith in his prime and a great goalie.

 

[Nylanderthal]

what did he write???

He mentioned in an article that the marner camp refused to allow the coaching staff to adjust the pp make up. He insisted on playing the right side half wall vs playing on the left goal line with Nylander on the left half wall allowing them to open up more shooting lanes.
Mitch insisted on staying on the right half wall forcing those telegraphed cross ice passes to Matthews.

 

[Superstar]

It will be hard to know until we get a Duncan Keith in his prime and a great goalie.

How about don't go with 0 goals in 18 playoff games and 8 assists in 12 playoff games as a start? Too much to ask for?

 

[Peasy]

It will be hard to know until we get a Duncan Keith in his prime and a great goalie.

You know kane is still producing without a prime keith right?

 

[McSnypsky]

It's up to Jones. The most important factor would be his desire to win in Toronto. If he doesn't want to play here then trade for somebody else.

He has already stated he will become a free agent, at least CBJ and everyone else knows this now

 

[Gallagbi]

It will be hard to know until we get a Duncan Keith in his prime and a great goalie.

Chicago's goaltending was anything, but great. They're a good example of a team who won with mediocre goalies.

 

[Mats13]

It will be hard to know until we get a Duncan Keith in his prime and a great goalie.

The Blackhawks won with Niemi in net lmao

 

[ER89]

By who? Homer Nation? Bookies taking sucker bets? Talking heads? The additions of Simmonds, Thornton, Foligno, Gally (pretty good for the price), Brodie (only significant change) are nowhere near enough to overcome our severe cap imbalance and the fact that we have a proven poor playoff team.
It's not like we some contender last year. We aren't built for the playoffs and that has been very obvious for quite some time.

Anyone who didn't acknowledge that this team probably wasn't going to be very good at playoff hockey and that a healthy Weber and Price could make it close was not paying attention.

if you think a healthy weber and price beat us you should give you head a shake and re watch the series. It was due to mental midgets like marner playing shook not taking hits. It was due to matthews turning cold. This was the top line. Period.

 

[hamzarocks]

Chicago's goaltending was anything, but great. They're a good example of a team who won with mediocre goalies.

The 1st cup sure but Crawford is a better goalie than Tuuka Rask. Dude was a legit top 5 starter from 2013 to 2018 and should have won the 2013 Conn Smythe.

Crawford was an elite goalie in both 2013 and 2015 when the hawks won their 2nd and 3rd cups.

 

[Stephen]

if you think a healthy weber and price beat us you should give you head a shake and re watch the series. It was due to mental midgets like marner playing shook not taking hits. It was due to matthews turning cold. This was the top line. Period.

The supporting cast did all you can ask of them. The spring board to getting to the next round would have been Matthews and Marner playing out of their minds in Game 5 and getting out to a 2-0 lead in the first. It would have been over with a heavy diligent forechecking lock down game from that point. This is just textbook close out.

 

[Gallagbi]

The 1st cup sure but Crawford is a better goalie than Tuuka Rask. Dude was a legit top 5 starter from 2013 to 2018 and should have won the 2013 Conn Smythe.

Crawford was an elite goalie in both 2013 and 2015 when the hawks won their 2nd and 3rd cups.

I've never been a big Crawford fan personally, he has his moments, but at the end of the day he was a middle tier starter IMO not unlikely Fred for us in the last 2-4 years (basically excluding this year)

 

[666]

Yes we were. Sure we're perennial chokers, but this team finished first in a cream puff division and did it quite handily. Anything less then coming out of the division was considered a fail.

That's not playoff hockey. The rules are called different. Special teams (and our PP was struggling) are crucial to playoff hockey. Price and Hellebuyck are proven performers. We probably would have beat Edmonton but to have suggested that it was a cakewalk getting past the other two is silly.

The rest of the team doesn't suck though. You had good (boarder line great) goaltending, you had certain depth pieces put up points, you had your fellow star in Nylander play
possessed, and the defense was the best we've had in a long time and played well (Aside from gaffs from Sandin and Dermott).
If Marner scores just one freaking goal this series we win. If Matthews can shoot at a quarter of the percentage he shot in the regular season we win the series. These guys choked hard and the loss is fully on them (as well as Keefe for letting primadonnas do the coaching).

The rest of the team does suck at playoff hockey. Can you imagine Andersen in net? Campbell played great other than the occasional critical softie. I'm losing track of the people I've responded to but how good can we really be if we have Hyman and Thornton on the PP at the same time. We just don't have that prime Keith, Weber, Doughty or Hedman that can play half of the game. Maybe if we did our top line would be more comfortable offensively knowing that the studs on the blueline would take care of things. It's simply impossible to know how Matthews and Marner would perform on a properly configured team.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[Gallagbi]

The supporting cast did all you can ask of them. The spring board to getting to the next round would have been Matthews and Marner playing out of their minds in Game 5 and getting out to a 2-0 lead in the first. It would have been over with a heavy diligent forechecking lock down game from that point. This is just textbook close out.

I'm torn on this - because our bottom end also killed us.

We lost 3 games on the back of our 12/13th forward and 6th/7th defenseman folding under pressure.
- Game 1's loss was from 2 bad plays by Sandin and Thornton.
- Game 5 was lost in OT off Galchenyuk, who started the series in the stands, making a horrific turnover. Games largely tied at that point due to obvious mistakes by Sandin, Joe and even Campbell.
- Game 6 is lost on Dermott spinning like a top because he can't make a simple play with little to no pressure.

Stack the lack of production and Marner's issues in Game 6/7 and you have the series loss in a nutshell.

I'd say the middle cast was more than fine, but the top 2 and bottom 2 on the night were consistently worrying

 

[666]

if you think a healthy weber and price beat us you should give you head a shake and re watch the series. It was due to mental midgets like marner playing shook not taking hits. It was due to matthews turning cold. This was the top line. Period.

And what was so different about this year than the last 4 years? There was absolutely no reason for you to have expected anything but a close series. If you had your expectations up then that's on you.

 

[Plat87]

Not gonna watch or follow the Leafs if this dude is still here next year.

 

[666]

The Blackhawks won with Niemi in net lmao

Shows you how good the rest of the team was. Like I said we're going to need a stud D and a great goalie.

 

[666]

Chicago's goaltending was anything, but great. They're a good example of a team who won with mediocre goalies.

We're going to need both moving forward.

 

[Stigma]

He mentioned in an article that the marner camp refused to allow the coaching staff to adjust the pp make up. He insisted on playing the right side half wall vs playing on the left goal line with Nylander on the left half wall allowing them to open up more shooting lanes.
Mitch insisted on staying on the right half wall forcing those telegraphed cross ice passes to Matthews.

I wouldn't doubt that the things Mitch does rubs teammates the wrong way. I would be pissed too if he and his daddy refused to do something to fix the PP!

No doubt, Babcock was a dick to Marner, but you have to figure there was a reason why he really honed in on MM.

 

[Woodman19]

Heard someone on the radio mention how it looked like the top players were simply worn down by too much ice time playing 26 minutes a game largely due to the dud Foligno trade and Tavares injury. There is probably some truth in that.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

The most insulting part is Marner was a Leafs fan growing up. Pathetic.

 

[ryno23]

Is the problem the core or the 4 players using half the Cap or both?
Bc swapping Marner for Eichel or Patty Kane or Kopitar won’t change the fact that 4 players using half the Cap.

But if your core is doing the job then all good. Problem is the core is not doing the job

 

[Leafsfan74]

I'm torn on this - because our bottom end also killed us.

We lost 3 games on the back of our 12/13th forward and 6th/7th defenseman folding under pressure.
- Game 1's loss was from 2 bad plays by Sandin and Thornton.
- Game 5 was lost in OT off Galchenyuk, who started the series in the stands, making a horrific turnover. Games largely tied at that point due to obvious mistakes by Sandin, Joe and even Campbell.
- Game 6 is lost on Dermott spinning like a top because he can't make a simple play with little to no pressure.

Stack the lack of production and Marner's issues in Game 6/7 and you have the series loss in a nutshell.

I'd say the middle cast was more than fine, but the top 2 and bottom 2 on the night were consistently worrying

We have a weaker bottom end because we have no cap space. Therein lies the problem.