Mitch Marner (post playoffs) discussion thread continued...

[Throw More Waffles]

Those Marner for Eichel makes me laugh

Its basically:
Marner has a loser attitude and cant win so lets trade him for a player with an even bigger loser reputation and coping with a serious neck injury

First loss to Boston "Well, I mean it's Boston."

Second loss to Boston "We were up 3-2 in the series... still lost. I mean maybe, just maybe, there's something wrong with this core."

Loss to Columbus "Ok... it's pretty likely at this point there's a problem with the core. One more try."

Loss to Habs "And it's official. Core needs to be broken up."


The Eichel thing would be a shakeup to try something new. Because what we have now clearly isn't working. Like... we're talking setting RECORDS level of not working.

 

[Gabriel426]

So you're saying that the loss is 100% on Marner? How many times did he set up Zack "Hands" Hyman and he missed? How many times did he set up Matthews and he hit the post? Why is garbage like Hyman and Thornton being on the PP Marners fault? The simple FACT is that the Habs aren't very good at playoff hockey and neither are the Leafs. And while no one is saying that Marner played lights out, it's insane to suggest that it's entirely his fault when he's stuck playing with garbage like Hyman, Thornton, Foligno etc, against a hot Price while Campbell let's in one softie a game. But yeah, it's ALL Marners fault. Silly.

Marner is getting paid 11mil a year while the combine salary of the guys you mentioned is about 6mil. In any work environment, person who is getting paid more should have more responsibility. If my team lose a deal at work, it is on me and not my reception.
Is this 1st round exit all on Marner? Definitely not. Will trading Marner makes Leafs advance, not sure. But one thing for sure, the changes to the core need to happen bc the core is not working. Can’t move JT bc he was the UFA coming home, Willie was lights out amazing this past playoffs, AM is AM, and Marner is the odd man out.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Those Marner for Eichel makes me laugh

Its basically:
Marner has a loser attitude and cant win so lets trade him for a player with an even bigger loser reputation and coping with a serious neck injury

Eichel is the superior player you can build around. Marner is not, IMO. The only thing Marner can do better is passing/playmaking, everything else Eichel whoops his ass.
Both are kind of head cases, so its a wash. Maybe the fresh start and not being with a Mickey Mouse organization might be of benefit to Eichel in terms of 'attitude'.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Not really sure the leafs can get full value for Marner at his salary. That will be tough for any team to take on.

Probably get a better return on one of the others....

Budget teams will be more concerned with real dollars which after “July 1st” (I forget the day exactly this season) will be under $25m for 4 seasons.

 

[Gabriel426]

First loss to Boston "Well, I mean it's Boston."

Second loss to Boston "We were up 3-2 in the series... still lost. I mean maybe, just maybe, there's something wrong with this core."

Loss to Columbus "Ok... it's pretty likely at this point there's a problem with the core. One more try."

Loss to Habs "And it's official. Core needs to be broken up."


The Eichel thing would be a shakeup to try something new. Because what we have now clearly isn't working. Like... we're talking setting RECORDS level of not working.

Is the problem the core or the 4 players using half the Cap or both?
Bc swapping Marner for Eichel or Patty Kane or Kopitar won’t change the fact that 4 players using half the Cap.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Marner = Gaudreau

Very skilled but small and soft.

 

[Nylanderthal]

To blame a series loss in a team sport on one person is idiotic.

When your depth keep you even keel with an inferior team and your core fail to carry you past the line then you have to look at the core.

 

[CincoHolio]

Arrogant or inexperienced? The team looked downright confused at times out there.

It's really hard to say if the problem is Mitch or coaching. Coaching is easiest and less risky thing change though....

Dubas went from one extreme to another when he really should've found a middle ground. He went from the hated, exerienced, structured and stubborn coach in Babcock to the players coach and rookie coach Keefe who thought he could reinvent the wheel and create an 80s Oilers team.

I think one lead to the other. Inexperienced coach thinks he can just throw his all world talent out there without using every advantage he has in order to maximize production. Keefe needs to learn, the playoffs are where you earn your keep in this town. If Dubas wants to save his own skin I'd say he has to start playing the bad-guy and stop clinging to his own comforts.

 

[ACC1224]

When your depth keep you even keel with an inferior team and your core fail to carry you past the line then you have to look at the core.

For sure. Lots of blame to go around from top to bottom

 

[mix1home]

Matthews and Marner score 2 goals each and this is a short series.
Is that too much to ask from 11m players?

Avs top line scored 9 points in one game and they won 7-1. I think our first line scored 9 points in 7 games. lol

 

[666]

There isn't any other sample size to pick from. We were expected to come out of the division this year, we should have beat Columbus last year, and we had a series lead on the Bruins the year before that.

No we weren't expected to come out of the division this year. We never proved that we can play playoff hockey. You might have expected that but that's on you. This team wasn't that much different than last year's team that sucked in the playoffs.

Marner has like what 3 5v5 points in those series. In this case the sample mean = the population mean. This guy just hasn't been able to get it done in the biggest moments.

Maybe it's because the rest of the team sucks in the playoffs? What's he supposed to when Hyman loses the puck 80% of time? Kane sucked in the playoffs when chicago sucked. Marner sucks when the Leafs suck in the playoffs.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

the marner contract negotiations were brutal; esp. considering he totally disappeared again, afraid to get hit etc. He had a whole year to at least improve his shot and get stronger- he did nothing, a real coward. Most of all his penalties were "shoots puck over glass". lmao. brutal.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Is the problem the core or the 4 players using half the Cap or both?
Bc swapping Marner for Eichel or Patty Kane or Kopitar won’t change the fact that 4 players using half the Cap.

I think a big part of the problem is half the cap on 4 forwards. That could work if they were all elite in the playoffs. But Marner is essentially dead cap space in the playoffs now. So the shakeup is worth a try. I'm not saying it's the ideal trade. But it's the trade that's possible. I'd make it.

 

[socko]

Marner is a poor man's Leon Draisatl. If you look at his points, you'll overrate him. Anyone think Draisatl is the 2nd best player in the league? Me neither. Draisatl is good in the playoffs though, so there is that.

 

[ER89]

No we weren't expected to come out of the division this year. We never proved that we can play playoff hockey. You might have expected that but that's on you. This team wasn't that much different than last year's team that sucked in the playoffs.



Maybe it's because the rest of the team sucks in the playoffs? What's he supposed to when Hyman loses the puck 80% of time? Kane sucked in the playoffs when chicago sucked. Marner sucks when the Leafs suck in the playoffs.

Uh yes we were expected wtf?

 

[RoadWarrior]

Did you just suggest we trade Auston Matthews?

Idc how mad you are. That is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.

Should the Oilers trade McDavid??

That $11.6M in cap space could be better used on a player or players committed to winning.

They also desperately need help on D.

 

[NightTrain1]

I love how we blame individual players.

Last year it was Frederik Andersen despite him carrying the team for several regular seasons and it turned out he was playing with a groin injury for some parts of last season and this season before he had to give up and rest.

This season they threw a 3-1 series lead because of Marner? Cmon leaf fans..

Yes.

Not JUST Marner but he is the leader of the blame gang and rightfully so. Our depth players, our secondaries and our goaltender all preformed well enough to win.

We have a top line of Hyman, Matthews and Marner. 76 goals, 166 points in 150 man games played this season. Playoffs 2 goals, 10 points in 21 man games played.

Hyman didnt do a thing this series, just as he hasnt done a thing in any playoff series thus far. IMO and has always been my opinion he is not worthy to be on the first line outside of unimportant regular season games, but its fine when the other two are playing well right.

Matthews couldnt score which is what he is really only exceptional at. He makes 11million as well but his play was actually very good overall. So he takes major blame too but less so.

Marner is a regular season showboat and brings nothing to the team in the playoffs for 11mill. That is why he is singled out above all others.

Keefe also needs to go at this point along with the rest of the coaches. They did nothing to make adjustments in two seasons.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

the marner contract negotiations were brutal; esp. considering he totally disappeared again, afraid to get hit etc. He had a whole year to at least improve his shot and get stronger- he did nothing, a real coward. Most of all his penalties were "shoots puck over glass". lmao. brutal.

Imagine he signed something like 9.5x6 without any of that drama. People would currently be a little "down" on him... but not belligerent. And maybe he would have played much better without that contract negotiation monkey on his back. Was that extra money worth this pressure? I just don't understand.

Go to any person in the street and say:

"2 choices.

1. I give you 65 million dollars over the next 6 years, but it will be outrageous pressure and your whole city will turn on you on a dime.

2. I give you 57 million dollars over the next 6 years, and you'll be the hometown hero with far less pressure... oh, and your team will be able to spend more on other players"

Ask anybody. They'll all take #2. Everybody. Why? Because you will have the PRECISE same lifestyle either way, so why not enjoy living as the top 0.000001% without the extra pressure? I simply don't understand the greed of these people.

 

[McSnypsky]

Not really a Marner fan. There is absolutely no way to justify this contract at this point, even if he is a 'top 5' player in the regular season.

But who takes this contract in today's limited cap world?? We are handcuffed. Because of this, I think we saw the last of Nylander. No one is taking that Marner contract for anything worth coming the other way but teams will pay up for Willy.

If we are going down that route and I think we kind of have to make some bigger salary cap decisions, I think Seattle is a good option. They will want to compete and of course get to the cap floor, a guy like Marner would help them do that and what assets we get from that trade we use to trade for someone else or use cap space to sign free agent.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

If what Tulloch wrote is true (and I have every reason to believe it) then does not only The Marner camp need to be shipped out, I would hold whoever allowed this to happen responsible as well. If it was keefe alone then can his ass and whole staff, there’s no way anyone in the room can take him seriously after this debacle. If it was a direct order from management to let the boys have their way, but it’s sink or swim. Then marner HAS to go and other changes are needed to and you give keefe another kick at the can with a tweaked lineup and a proper training camp and preseason.
If management was complicit with Marners demands and they’re all back, then f*** these losers each and every one of them

what did he write???

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

You just said it yourself. "Don't just conveniently pick out the playoffs where the Blackhawks sucked". You are conveniently picking the playoffs where the Leafs sucked to say that Marner is bad. The Leafs aren't built for the playoffs and it's not Marners fault, just like it wasn't Kanes fault when the Blackhawks sucked in the playoffs. This is pretty simple stuff.

except Kane is 10 times the player MM will be.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

No we weren't expected to come out of the division this year. We never proved that we can play playoff hockey. You might have expected that but that's on you. This team wasn't that much different than last year's team that sucked in the playoffs.

Yes we were. Sure we're perennial chokers, but this team finished first in a cream puff division and did it quite handily. Anything less then coming out of the division was considered a fail. We did more than just fail

Maybe it's because the rest of the team sucks in the playoffs? What's he supposed to when Hyman loses the puck 80% of time? Kane sucked in the playoffs when chicago sucked. Marner sucks when the Leafs suck in the playoffs.

The rest of the team doesn't suck though. You had good (boarder line great) goaltending, you had certain depth pieces put up points, you had your fellow star in Nylander play
possessed, and the defense was the best we've had in a long time and played well (Aside from gaffs from Sandin and Dermott).
If Marner scores just one freaking goal this series we win. If Matthews can shoot at a quarter of the percentage he shot in the regular season we win the series. These guys choked hard and the loss is fully on them (as well as Keefe for letting primadonnas do the coaching).

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

Imagine he signed something like 9.5x6 without any of that drama. People would currently be a little "down" on him... but not belligerent. And maybe he would have played much better without that contract negotiation monkey on his back. Was that extra money worth this pressure? I just don't understand.

Go to any person in the street and say:

"2 choices.

1. I give you 65 million dollars over the next 6 years, but it will be outrageous pressure and your whole city will turn on you on a dime.

2. I give you 57 million dollars over the next 6 years, and you'll be the hometown hero with far less pressure... oh, and your team will be able to spend more on other players"

Ask anybody. They'll all take #2. Everybody. Why? Because you will have the PRECISE same lifestyle either way, so why not enjoy living as the top 0.000001% without the extra pressure? I simply don't understand the greed of these people.

supposedly 2 other things part of his deal, be on #1 PP with Matthews and 2. be on #1 line...oh actually 3 things- #3 A on his chest. Real greedy coward scum him and his father.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Imagine he signed something like 9.5x6 without any of that drama. People would currently be a little "down" on him... but not belligerent. And maybe he would have played much better without that contract negotiation monkey on his back. Was that extra money worth this pressure? I just don't understand.

Go to any person in the street and say:

"2 choices.

1. I give you 65 million dollars over the next 6 years, but it will be outrageous pressure and your whole city will turn on you on a dime.

2. I give you 57 million dollars over the next 6 years, and you'll be the hometown hero with far less pressure... oh, and your team will be able to spend more on other players"

Ask anybody. They'll all take #2. Everybody. Why? Because you will have the PRECISE same lifestyle either way, so why not enjoy living as the top 0.000001% without the extra pressure? I simply don't understand the greed of these people.

It was all about ego with Marner and his Dad.

 

[666]

Uh yes we were expected wtf?

By who? Homer Nation? Bookies taking sucker bets? Talking heads? The additions of Simmonds, Thornton, Foligno, Gally (pretty good for the price), Brodie (only significant change) are nowhere near enough to overcome our severe cap imbalance and the fact that we have a proven poor playoff team.
It's not like we some contender last year. We aren't built for the playoffs and that has been very obvious for quite some time.

Anyone who didn't acknowledge that this team probably wasn't going to be very good at playoff hockey and that a healthy Weber and Price could make it close was not paying attention.