Mitch Marner (post playoffs) discussion thread continued...

[Nylanderthal]

I just came across that and my jaw dropped. Tulloch, the author isn't some rumor monger either, he's written for legit media publications too.

If Marner is back next season (and there s a high probability of that) things will need to change

If what Tulloch wrote is true (and I have every reason to believe it) then does not only The Marner camp need to be shipped out, I would hold whoever allowed this to happen responsible as well. If it was keefe alone then can his ass and whole staff, there’s no way anyone in the room can take him seriously after this debacle. If it was a direct order from management to let the boys have their way, but it’s sink or swim. Then marner HAS to go and other changes are needed to and you give keefe another kick at the can with a tweaked lineup and a proper training camp and preseason.
If management was complicit with Marners demands and they’re all back, then f*** these losers each and every one of them

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Call the Sabres about Eichel
Call the Jackets about Jones
Call the Flames about Tkachuk


Marner needs to go.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Marner was not only ineffective in this series, he was a liability at the most crucial times.

You can't have a player like that do a complete 180 every year in the playoffs taking up almost 11 million in cap space.

 

[Mats13]

The problem is not Marner. The problem is the team. It's not built for the playoffs and it's cap is poorly distributed. I posted this in a Kane vs Marner thread.

TLDR;
Great players often don't do so well on bad teams particularly in the playoffs. And YES, this is a bad team because playoff hockey is significantly different.


In their first 5 seasons here are the numbers:

Season		Age		Goals		Assists		Points
Marner	Kane	Marner	Kane	Marner	Kane	Marner	Kane	Marner	Kane
2016-17	2007-08	19	19	0.25	0.26	0.55	0.62	0.79	0.88
2017-18	2008-09	20	20	0.27	0.31	0.57	0.56	0.84	0.88
2018-19	2009-10	21	21	0.32	0.37	0.83	0.71	1.15	1.07
2019-20	2010-11	22	22	0.27	0.37	0.86	0.63	1.14	1.00
2020-21	2011-12	23	23	0.36	0.28	0.85	0.52	1.22	0.80

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

There should be some GP'ed asterisks but those are the numbers.

In playoff seasons where their team played at most 9 games.

	GP	G	A	P
Marner	32	5	20	25
Kane	33	5	23	28

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Yes. these are Kanes worst 5 years in the playoffs but they are also Marners worst and just because their team didn't do well it's probably not entirely their fault. This is how they performed on bad teams in the playoffs.

Lmao such garbage.

Post Kane’s first 5 playoffs. Don't just conveniently pick out the playoffs where the Blackhawks sucked.

Comparing Marner to a Hart, Art Ross, Conn Smythe and three time Cup winner who is one of the clutchest players of our generation is a joke.

 

[BlueForever75]

Marner needs to go. He cannot be part of this core anymore. He disappears when it counts.

I would trade him in a heartbeat for either a solid young dman + OR another winger/center type that wants out (Eichel).

He cost us in both of the last games, and that doesnt count not showing up the rest of the series.

He has to go. See ya.

 

[Superstar]

The regular season PPG doesn't have much meaning or value if we lose to inferior teams. It'd be better to score less points if it meant we'd have won this round.

Yes, at least the narrative would have been "this team has guts!"

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Marner is not getting traded.

The Leafs will not give up his PPG and his chemistry with Matthews. If he continues to bleep the bed in the playoffs, they will just live with it and hope things go right one year.

This is exact reason why many of us may leave nest for a year or two .. but it will be up to new management to figure out this mess .. even with an experienced hockey guy it will take some time to develop a plan

 

[A1LeafNation]

Marner for Eichel or McDavid.

This shame is all on Matthews and Marner.

 

[bodechek]

Keefe should get a lot of criticism for this series but he was handicapped by a player who wanted to do things the Marner way on the PP.

Keefe is the coach, if he cannot take command, then he has NO business being an NHL coach. But if that is also true, Marner is NOT the player we all thought he was. Just a Little Lindros clone. Family and player always thinking of 'ME' and not the team. Selfish prick.

 

[ORRFForever]

Call the Sabres about Eichel
Call the Jackets about Jones
Call the Flames about Tkachuk


Marner needs to go.

* "Sabres about Eichel"" - if I am the Leafs, because of Eichel's neck issues, I don't make that call.

* "Call the Flames about Tkachuk" - if I am the Flames, because I already have one Johnny Hockey and I don't need another, I don't take that call.

* "Call the Jackets about Jones" - that might work.

 

[ORRFForever]

This is exact reason why many of us may leave nest for a year or two .. but it will be up to new management to figure out this mess .. even with an experienced hockey guy it will take some time to develop a plan

Nobody's leaving. You will come back, just like the rest of us. We're addcited.

 

[ToneDog]

* Sabres about Eichel - if I am the Leafs, because of Eichel's neck issues, I don't make that call.

* Call the Flames about Tkachuk - if I am the Flames, because I already have one Johnny Hockey and I don't need another, I don't take that call.

* Call the Jackets about Jones - that might work.

Johnny Hockey has played his last game as a Flame IMO.

 

[666]

Lmao such garbage.

Post Kane’s first 5 playoffs. Don't just conveniently pick out the playoffs where the Blackhawks sucked.

Comparing Marner to a Hart, Art Ross, Conn Smythe and three time Cup winner who is one of the clutchest players of our generation is a joke.

You just said it yourself. "Don't just conveniently pick out the playoffs where the Blackhawks sucked". You are conveniently picking the playoffs where the Leafs sucked to say that Marner is bad. The Leafs aren't built for the playoffs and it's not Marners fault, just like it wasn't Kanes fault when the Blackhawks sucked in the playoffs. This is pretty simple stuff.

 

[Antropovsky]

For anyone paying attention, Mitch and Auston had lost chemistry over a handful of games before the playoffs even started. Combine that with the fact, Foligno looked the best on that line to the point they were quite dominant and when he got injured that line has been bad ever since. Keefe messed around with lines way too much prior to the playoffs I firmly believe. And his reluctance to line match the top line was a huge red flag for me when I heard him say he wouldn't. Incredibly arrogant of Keefe and I'd say he has some serious egg on his face today.

Arrogant or inexperienced? The team looked downright confused at times out there.

It's really hard to say if the problem is Mitch or coaching. Coaching is easiest and less risky thing change though....

Dubas went from one extreme to another when he really should've found a middle ground. He went from the hated, exerienced, structured and stubborn coach in Babcock to the players coach and rookie coach Keefe who thought he could reinvent the wheel and create an 80s Oilers team.

 

[ORRFForever]

Johnny Hockey has played his last game as a Flame IMO.

We'll see.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Nobody's leaving. You will come back, just like the rest of us. We're addcited.

I will always bleed blue until I die .. but I am going make a little return on my seats next year .. everyone else focuses on $$ so if you can't beat em join em .. I may still watch a game here and there but I am gonna take a year off unless something radical happens for better in off season

 

[ShaneFalco]

Marner was not only ineffective in this series, he was a liability at the most crucial times.

You can't have a player like that do a complete 180 every year in the playoffs taking up almost 11 million in cap space.

This exactly. But some of the blame has to go on Keefe/Dubas - not a single PP goal all year, a horrible PP in general and he keeps trotting him out there. Gets the most ice time by far, even when Nylander is playing his best...... give-aways, fly-bys, shooting the puck over the glass.... mental errors and immaturity. And over and over he admits he wasn't good enough but plays the same playoff game

 

[ORRFForever]

I am going make a little return on my seats next year .. everyone else focuses on $$ so if you can't beat em join em .. I may still watch a game here and there but I am gonna take a year off unless something radical happens for better in off season

Not sure I believe you but, if you do, God bless you for it.

Just remind me to ask if you have Leaf fever at the end of Sept - because, my guess, you will. We all will.

 

[Guy Boucher]

Marner for Laine and Jenner. The problem with trading marner is his value is low atm, but so is Laine's. You can sign Laine for much less and use the additional cap space elsewhere.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Marner was not only ineffective in this series, he was a liability at the most crucial times.

You can't have a player like that do a complete 180 every year in the playoffs taking up almost 11 million in cap space.

Exactly, sure Auston failed to put the puck in the net vs a Carey price that has just turned back the clock a half decade but he was still involved in all three zones and not a liability on the ice

 

[Superstar]

Marner for Laine and Jenner. The problem with trading marner is his value is low atm, but so is Laine's. You can sign Laine for much less and use the additional cap space elsewhere.

I want Seth Jones coming back from Columbus if I'm trading Marner there.

 

[ORRFForever]

I will always bleed blue until I die .. but I am going make a little return on my seats next year .. everyone else focuses on $$ so if you can't beat em join em .. I may still watch a game here and there but I am gonna take a year off unless something radical happens for better in off season

On a Saturday night, I go to Church (Catholic) and then I come home and I have a big pasta meal (chicken parm) and watch the Leafs at 7.

Yesterday's pain will fade but my Saturday night routine is something I will inevitably fall back into. It's awesome and I love it.

My guess, you will fall back into it, too.

 

[Mats13]

You just said it yourself. "Don't just conveniently pick out the playoffs where the Blackhawks sucked". You are conveniently picking the playoffs where the Leafs sucked to say that Marner is bad. The Leafs aren't built for the playoffs and it's not Marners fault, just like it wasn't Kanes fault when the Blackhawks sucked in the playoffs. This is pretty simple stuff.

The Leafs didn’t suck. Marner did. And that cost us the series.

 

[ORRFForever]

Marner for Laine and Jenner. The problem with trading marner is his value is low atm, but so is Laine's. You can sign Laine for much less and use the additional cap space elsewhere.

Lord no. Laine is poison. Laine + the Toronto market = Death.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I just came across that and my jaw dropped. Tulloch, the author isn't some rumor monger either, he's written for legit media publications too.

If Marner is back next season (and there s a high probability of that) things will need to change

Yeah, I read that too and this is not the first time it's come up.

It all started with getting put on the 4th line by Babs. You could tell this kid has a massive ego compared to anyone else including Matthews/Nylander. Then the unbelievable contract negotiations and eventual signing. There have been rumblings about this ever since he started playing here and this PP story is just another example.

He needs a big reality check whether it's here or somewhere else.