Mitch Marner (post playoffs) discussion thread continued...

[Superstar]

I think it's time to bring out the pitchforks and run him out of town in classic Toronto fashion.

Did you enjoyed his contract negotiation? I'm sure he laid a few pitchforks up Dubas a55 for more dollar.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

So he's physically and mentally weak? That puck flip over the glass in game 6 leading to the 5-on-3 PP goal to put the Habs up 2-0 was inexcusable. How do we explain his last 5 of 6 penalties in the playoffs was for flipping the puck over the glass? And why did he make it his mission to bend over the Toronto Maple Leafs during his contract negotiation?

Simple he did not want to get hit so he made rush decisions to unload pucks as he can't speed away .. it is really a basic answer .. on contract every player who has talent as a kid has a parent, and I include myself too, who thinks their kid(s) are going to da show .. da amount of time, energy, $$$ and dedication to get there is now at point where it is way too much for almost every family .. Stuey and I have millions already so it is a heavy cost but still nickels and dimes in bigger picture .. guys like Mitch and some others I won't name relied on teams, orgs and sponsors to help with da burden over da years but it still put family deep deep deep into da red .. so for them it is literally more than hockey it is life changing financially .. and you can't blame da player as it is always da team which agrees to da contract .. Dubie/Shanny could have said no .. now it is a little more complicated because for Leafs they flat out just print $$$ and could literally triple their payroll and still operate profitably .. but 90% of NHL can't survive at what Leafs could afford (only Habs, Rangers and now Vegas would survive) so smart Jacobs figured it out and put his gang together to rule league with Bettman .. to be fair it makes it a much harder negotiation for a big regular season point producer .. Dubie is low man on wealth and income ladder so he is in a really tough spot .. any GM would be so experience really helps out .. AGAIN this is really hard to understand if you have not lived it yourself

 

[Turin]

Pens fans also saw Phil having temper tantrums on the bench......... on multiple occasions. In leafland he was arguing with Phaneuf repeatedly. Sometimes on the ice.

The guy isn't a team player. He won cups because he was finishing plays created by Crosby and Malkin. A complimentary piece who wore out his welcome with both the leafs and pens.

Kessel’s “tantrums” weren’t a problem. He ran himself out of Pittsburgh because he insisted on playing in the top six and refused to sit and heal instead of ending his iron man streak. Both put himself above the team in the coaches mind.

 

[TMLAM34]

Would Seth Jones be a consideration?

I’d definitely do something around that. A Brodie - Jones pairing would be awesome.

 

[Gallagbi]

Do we have a guy better suited for the role? What are you going to do when you trade him away? I agree Marner must take a chunk of the responsibility for the weak PP but certainly he's not the only one. How the heck are we even supposed to have a PP when Hyman and Thornton are on it at the same time? If this is any single persons fault, it's the guy that put Hyman on the first line and the PP and if Marner and Matthews were ok with it then it's on them too.

Marner was a disaster on the PP with Hyman hurt and using the big 4 with Rielly as well

 

[mrJT]

If he's gonna be traded (He should be) Tkachuk is the best option

 

[ryno23]

Tbh it says a lot about the guy that Keefe feels afraid of even taking him off of PP1 because it would throw his game off more than benefit him even if a shakeup can benefit the team. Nylander has been tossed from first line, 2nd line, 3rd line, to 4th line, to benched, to made an example out of, first PP, to 2nd PP, to no PP, and you didn't hear a f***ing peep out of this guy. The coaches can hold Nylander accountable because they know he's not insane in the brain and it will be beneficial for Willy and for the rest of the team as if nothing else they will see that there is accountability and it could help give the lines the shake up they need.

Marner though? No chance. I saw Siegel's quote about hesitancy of switching up PP1 because there's a nervous energy about moving Marner off PP1. With his energy he'd suck the life out of the bench. Seeing that the first thing he thought of doing last night after getting eliminated was to instantly turn off his instagram comments says all we need to know about his ability to handle adversity. He just doesn't have it in him to face the music of his failure, which is the best way to learn and motivate yourself. Mentally he's about the fluff which is why he was nervous as hell the entire game in a game 7 and largely ineffective in the playoffs, two block shots on Pasta a million years ago aside. The fact that even instagram makes him this nervous shows me his immediate thoughts are to avoid damage to his ego and anything uncomfortable, not the fact that this team lost and maybe just not checking instagram for a week.

Matthews in contrast did not look nervous out there and did not cost the Leafs a single goal all series nor take stupid penalties. He was just snake bit, not nervous. And avoiding uncomfortable situations isn't a way to ease nervousness. Matthews to his credit still has his instagram comments on so the degenerates can say whatever rude offside stuff they want about him. He'll use that as motivation next year

Bang on.

Last year people/media were criticizing Matthews 200 foot game and this year he took that personally and probably could be a selke finalist.

Marner on the other hand doesn't have that ability to take the criticism and better his game. Probably due to the fact his Daddy was always there to get involved in team affairs going back to minor hockey, junior hockey, and even his contract negotiations. He has never accepted responsibility for his game. Sure he provides the proper cliche but that him saying the right things.

You hear rumours all the way back to minor hockey about his attitude and now it is on full display. He will never be the "GUY" to better his game.

Dubas right now has a pass from Leaf nation to deal Marner and even if he loses the deal but clears up the cap spaces and then with the cap space improves the makeup of the team he will get a pass from most of the fanbase as they are tired of Marner.

 

[Morlu]

The biggest mistake the organization made was handing out retirement contracts to young kids who haven't actually accomplished anything. That's 100% on Kyle Dubas. Dubas then hired Keefe who is unable or unwilling to make necessary lineup changes to win key matchups in a playoff series.

Dubas should probably be fired. If he isn't fired then he needs to fix the mess he created by making big trades starting with trading Marner and/or Matthews to free cap space.

This team still needs help on Defense and they need a 1B goaltender.

From the forwards they need more passion. It's that simple. They aren't getting it from Marner or Matthews so it's time for them to move on.

Keefe who looks more and more like a stooge for Dubas should also be replaced.

Trading Matthews would be the stupidest move in the history of hockey. You don’t find those types of players and he is actually worth his contract. In 3 years, if he’s not going to resign, we look at options.

Marner is the odd man out, but it’s the Leafs and they will probably trade Nylander, cause Leafs.

I give Dubas, 1 more year to fix this. This mess is on the players, the team was vastly improved this year and they blew it.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Kessel’s “tantrums” weren’t a problem. He ran himself out of Pittsburgh because he insisted on playing in the top six and refused to sit and heal instead of ending his iron man streak. Both put himself above the team in the coaches mind.

The bench tantrums were a reflection of his unprofessionalism as a hockey player.

 

[Gallagbi]

I love how many people know who is and isn't a leader on the team and other behind closed doors workings on players work ethic. Re: Matthews, Tavarez, Marner, Nylander. Fact is y'all don't know shit and are just emotionally assigning blame to what you dont like.

I think most are assigning blame to the high cap hit player(s) who under performed. With most even looking beyond this loss and over the last 2-3

 

[ACC1224]

Not sure if posted but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

No one believes that to be true.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nylander is Kessel 2.0. We already have that piece.

Now we need the Crosby or Malkin.

Matthews and Marner ain't it.

Matthews is phenomenal.

 

[AndyWozniewski]

Did you enjoyed his contract negotiation? I'm sure he laid a few pitchforks up Dubas a55 for more dollar.

I hate this guy so much. Complete non factor when the games get tough. We'll be a better team without him

 

[Pete2000]

Seems like just a matter of time before he's on his way to another team.... Very disappointed in Mitch, no heart in his game.. I guess money changes everything.

That’s right, bang on!! We should’ve given
Mitch more money, he would’ve tried harder.

 

[Strangle]

Matthews is phenomenal.

Matthews is the furthest thing from the problem on this team

 

[RoadWarrior]

Trading Matthews would be the stupidest move in the history of hockey. You don’t find those types of players and he is actually worth his contract. In 3 years, if he’s not going to resign, we look at options.

Marner is the odd man out, but it’s the Leafs and they will probably trade Nylander, cause Leafs.

I give Dubas, 1 more year to fix this. This mess is on the players, the team was vastly improved this year and they blew it.

Matthews is phenomenal.

If Matthews was "phenomenal" he would've scored more than 1 goal in 7 games in this series. He's phenomenally talented yes but not a phenomenal winner.

 

[Pete2000]

Honour, Pride, Courage imprinted on the inner collar of the jersey. Obviously Mitch is to wearing the same jersey being sold at the store, he demonstrated none of those qualities.

Marner got the jersey embroidered with -

PAY UP SUCKERS!

 

[Superstar]

Simple he did not want to get hit so he made rush decisions to unload pucks as he can't speed away .. it is really a basic answer .. on contract every player who has talent as a kid has a parent, and I include myself too, who thinks their kid(s) are going to da show .. da amount of time, energy, $$$ and dedication to get there is now at point where it is way too much for almost every family .. Stuey and I have millions already so it is a heavy cost but still nickels and dimes in bigger picture .. guys like Mitch and some others I won't name relied on teams, orgs and sponsors to help with da burden over da years but it still put family deep deep deep into da red .. so for them it is literally more than hockey it is life changing financially .. and you can't blame da player as it is always da team which agrees to da contract .. Dubie/Shanny could have said no .. now it is a little more complicated because for Leafs they flat out just print $$$ and could literally triple their payroll and still operate profitably .. but 90% of NHL can't survive at what Leafs could afford (only Habs, Rangers and now Vegas would survive) so smart Jacobs figured it out and put his gang together to rule league with Bettman .. to be fair it makes it a much harder negotiation for a big regular season point producer .. Dubie is low man on wealth and income ladder so he is in a really tough spot .. any GM would be so experience really helps out .. AGAIN this is really hard to understand if you have not lived it yourself

The problem I have is squeezing the organization for every penny...7 x $10 million is not enough? 8 x $11 million is not enough? And even for that amount they weren't happy...Darren Ferris sounded peeved in his interview after they signed that contract because they were ready to hold out for more if the news didn't go public to the fans and media that Marner rejected the Leafs offer of 7 x $10 million. The optics look bad, and now that he's a playoff no-show 2 years straight into his new contract, he's painted himself into a corner of possibly being traded out of his hometown, and that's his own doing.

 

[Kurtz]

If Matthews was "phenomenal" he would've scored more than 1 goal in 7 games in this series. He's phenomenally talented yes but not a phenomenal winner.

Matthews led our team in hits. He was #2 in blocks. He had 14 takeaways to 3 giveaways (Marner 4 takeaways to 6 giveaways). 55% on faceoffs.

He couldn't bury it and hit iron a lot, but Matthews was at least playing his ass off.

 

[ShaneFalco]

If Matthews was "phenomenal" he would've scored more than 1 goal in 7 games in this series. He's phenomenally talented yes but not a phenomenal winner.

He wasn't good. no. But when the opposition can smother you because they know your winger is looking to pass at every opportunity and has a muffin of a shot......
Why Keefe didn't split them up..... ?????

 

[Gary Nylund]

If Matthews was "phenomenal" he would've scored more than 1 goal in 7 games in this series. He's phenomenally talented yes but not a phenomenal winner.

Nah, he just had a stretch of bad puck luck, he'll be fine you'll see.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

At least we'll have some entertaining radio for a while

 

[CertifiedGoat]

If he's gonna be traded (He should be) Tkachuk is the best option

Tkachuk is not a playoff performer.

 

[Mitch Matthews]

Trade both Matthews and Marner and this time use the money to smartly acquire proven NHL players

 

[RoadWarrior]

Matthews led our team in hits. He was #2 in blocks. He had 14 takeaways to 3 giveaways (Marner 4 takeaways to 6 giveaways).

He couldn't bury it and hit iron a lot, but Matthews was at least playing his ass off.

Matthews wasn't the worst player on the team by any means. You're missing the point.

In the cap world it's all about value for money. Matthews earned his $$ more than marner did but he wasn't an $11.6M player in the playoffs. Carey Price was but Matthews wasn't.

The question is whether they can find more important pieces for the same cap space. I would argue that a Seth Jones would provide better value.