Mitch Marner (post playoffs) discussion thread continued...

[sxvnert]

Not sure if posted but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Post the legit source where that came from.

 

[Mess]

If his attitude is really that bad and his sense of entitlement is really that strong it probably makes more sense to trade him than to hope he'll change.

A leopard never changes its spots so there is no reason to believe Marner will change.

Self entitlement or as its referred to in Leafland as "Blue and White disease" is not new with Marner, and a common problem Toronto has faced in the past and a rather easy systemic problem to identify as a reason for Leafs poor results as 17 years now and counting without a playoff series win confirm.

Marner and company are simply a new face on an old problem.

It looked like the new generation of young Leafs were being tightly control and self entitlement prevented under GM Lou Lam's strict rules and regiments clearly in control, and coach Babcock who didn't cater to their every whim and desire, through tough love despite their public complaints and eventual turning on their coach to get their will imposed to force change.

Then the keys to the castle were turned over to greenhorn Kyle Dubas, and he placated Marner (and others) with big fat guaranteed overpayment contracts among the highest in the league, before they've ever proven worthy through team results.. The win first and then get paid forced to EARN it approach, like other top players was tossed out the window. Then remove discipline and structure from their lives and give them a young inexperienced coach that allows them to call their own shots and do as they please and the Inmates are running the Asylum.

Even Shanahan who talked a tough game to start about "players buying into the team approach of team building and taking less so you could build a competitive team around then" "not willing to hand out top end contracts for the good of the team, or you won't be on the team if you don't buy in" caved to Inmate pressure and made management changes to allow the very thing he was trying to prevent to become the perfect melting pot for Blue and White disease and self entitlement to run rampant and out of control again.

We're right back to square #1 all over again. Who to fire and who to trade in order to rid the team of self entitlement issues, and reverse course of losing.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Horrible take. Kessel was not "toxic" and he never quit on the team. Where are you getting this stuff from?

Phil always delivered in the playoffs and guys liked him. It wasn't his fault that our second best forward back then was Tyler Bozak and our best dman Dion Phaneuf.

I wish Mitch was as effective as Phil in the playoffs.

LOL. Kessel is widely known as one of the most toxic players in the league. Just ask the Penguins.

Yeah he was better in the playoffs but he was also a cancer in the dressing room who quit on the team. My point is that it was his time to go.

 

[Stephen]

Tbh it says a lot about the guy that Keefe feels afraid of even taking him off of PP1 because it would throw his game off more than benefit him even if a shakeup can benefit the team. Nylander has been tossed from first line, 2nd line, 3rd line, to 4th line, to benched, to made an example out of, first PP, to 2nd PP, to no PP, and you didn't hear a f***ing peep out of this guy. The coaches can hold Nylander accountable because they know he's not insane in the brain and it will be beneficial for Willy and for the rest of the team as if nothing else they will see that there is accountability and it could help give the lines the shake up they need.

Marner though? No chance. I saw Siegel's quote about hesitancy of switching up PP1 because there's a nervous energy about moving Marner off PP1. With his energy he'd suck the life out of the bench. Seeing that the first thing he thought of doing last night after getting eliminated was to instantly turn off his instagram comments says all we need to know about his ability to handle adversity. He just doesn't have it in him to face the music of his failure, which is the best way to learn and motivate yourself. Mentally he's about the fluff which is why he was nervous as hell the entire game in a game 7 and largely ineffective in the playoffs, two block shots on Pasta a million years ago aside. The fact that even instagram makes him this nervous shows me his immediate thoughts are to avoid damage to his ego and anything uncomfortable, not the fact that this team lost and maybe just not checking instagram for a week.

Matthews in contrast did not look nervous out there and did not cost the Leafs a single goal all series nor take stupid penalties. He was just snake bit, not nervous. And avoiding uncomfortable situations isn't a way to ease nervousness. Matthews to his credit still has his instagram comments on so the degenerates can say whatever rude offside stuff they want about him. He'll use that as motivation next year

Immaturity and fragility seem like good descriptors of the Toronto Maple Leafs and we seem to have found the source of this characteristic.

 

[MapleLeafs77]

What is a realistic marner trade option?

 

[666]

Well considering that it sounds like Marner was not willing to change up his role on the PP and how terrible the PP was with him being the main piece of it, I think he deserves a lot of the blame.

Do we have a guy better suited for the role? What are you going to do when you trade him away? I agree Marner must take a chunk of the responsibility for the weak PP but certainly he's not the only one. How the heck are we even supposed to have a PP when Hyman and Thornton are on it at the same time? If this is any single persons fault, it's the guy that put Hyman on the first line and the PP and if Marner and Matthews were ok with it then it's on them too.

 

[Strangle]

Is Marner the coach? The real question is why management and the coach seem to care what the players think when they aren't performing.

As a subordinate, the relationship between coach and player is sometimes adversarial. It’s just the nature of the relationship. If you’re not willing to go the distance with a player to show them you’re the boss, you’re not doing your job.

 

[Peasy]

Post the legit source where that came from.

Game 7 Analysis: Where on Earth do the Toronto Maple Leafs go from here?

Its from Ian Tulloch, hes connected to people in the industry and isn't a click bait writer.

 

[TheShape]

Paying Marner this much seems to obligate the team to play him on the top PP and rely on him to be a difference maker. Forcing him into situations out of his ability. Marner asked for this with his bs contract drama and holding the team hostage, so I have zero sympathy for the guy.

Who wants to go to war a guy who was crying in the penalty box? Then there's Mackinnon out there playing like a psychopath for half the money.

Mitch has to go.

 

[Kurtz]

LOL. Kessel is widely known as one of the most toxic players in the league. Just ask the Penguins.

Yeah he was better in the playoffs but he was also a cancer in the dressing room who quit on the team. My point is that it was his time to go.

This is just your imagination. If I ask Pens fans about Phil, they'll thank him for the 2 cups they won immediately after trading for him.

Marner can be spewing toxic waste out of his asshole and I wouldn't care if he brought us 2 cups.

 

[Superstar]

Horrible take. Kessel was not "toxic" and he never quit on the team. Where are you getting this stuff from?

Phil always delivered in the playoffs and guys liked him. It wasn't his fault that our second best forward back then was Tyler Bozak and our best dman Dion Phaneuf.

I wish Mitch was as effective as Phil in the playoffs.

Kessel had game breaking speed and an all-world shot, and could also pass the puck...the team around him was crap. The media was a big part of the Kessel hate...you have trolls like Steve Simmons writing a sensationalist untrue article about Kessel eating hotdogs after he was traded...that's a lie.

 

[Woodman19]

What is a realistic marner trade option?

Well according to everyone here, other teams best most physically gifted all round player. Thats the going rate for an overpaid cancer that we need to get rid of at all costs.

 

[ER89]

I was just discussing that with Mrs Marner last night. Why the f does a third liner (at best) get to play his entire career so far with superstars? We came to the conclusion that Mitchy and Austin (that's what we call him when he comes over for dinner) must like him on their line for some reason. We don't get it either. We should really talk to him about it but we want him to buy us a house.

Ah makes sense Paul. Make sure its one with a pool, you know for the pain you feel for having a mental midget for a son. Say hi to the missus.

 

[Strangle]

What is a realistic marner trade option?

Eichel or Jones?

 

[Kurtz]

Well according to everyone here, other teams best most physically gifted all round player. Thats the going rate for an overpaid cancer that we need to get rid of at all costs.

He's a problem player. It makes sense to trade him for one of the other teams' problem players - Jones/Tkachuk/Eichel.

 

[Woodman19]

He's a problem player. It makes sense to trade him for one of the other teams' problem players - Jones/Tkachuk/Eichel.

Maybe, but I find it funny that we have sky high expectations for a player we think is no good. If hes that bad, better lower your expectations for a return.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’m with you and for that move, I just don’t think it’s going to happen with Dubas as GM.

I seriously doubt he will touch the core and being allowed to hire a 3rd coach after betting his job on the core (making no changes to it) doesn’t wash with me.

You might be right, if so then I'd fire Dubas. That has to be first decision, does Dubas stay or go? So you talk to the guy and ask him what his thoughts/plans are and if his answer is to stay the course then you fire him.

He bet many draft picks on a deep playoff run which now looks like a really dumb bet. That's the kind of mistake that gets people fired with cause IMO.

 

[RoadWarrior]

This is just your imagination. If I ask Pens fans about Phil, they'll thank him for the 2 cups they won immediately after trading for him.

Pens fans also saw Phil having temper tantrums on the bench......... on multiple occasions. In leafland he was arguing with Phaneuf repeatedly. Sometimes on the ice.

The guy isn't a team player. He won cups because he was finishing plays created by Crosby and Malkin. A complimentary piece who wore out his welcome with both the leafs and pens.

 

[htpwn]

Not sure if posted but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

There is no getting around it - this is damning.

Players have been traded for less, even without the back-to-back playoff no-shows.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Maybe, but I find it funny that we have sky high expectations for a player we think is no good. If hes that bad, better lower your expectations for a return.

Marner's not "no good" and he's still worth a lot, especially to a low budget team that gets him for not that many real dollars. And Buffalo's not dealing from a position of strength with Eichel either so I'd say his value is roughly equal to Marner at this point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Pens fans also saw Phil having temper tantrums on the bench......... on multiple occasions. In leafland he was arguing with Phaneuf repeatedly. Sometimes on the ice.

The guy isn't a team player. He won cups because he was finishing plays created by Crosby and Malkin. A complimentary piece who wore out his welcome with both the leafs and pens.

He almost won playoff MVP for that first cup run, give the guy some credit. I wouldn't mind someone wearing out his welcome here if he helps us win a couple of cups while doing it myself.

 

[member 298589]

I love how many people know who is and isn't a leader on the team and other behind closed doors workings on players work ethic. Re: Matthews, Tavarez, Marner, Nylander. Fact is y'all don't know shit and are just emotionally assigning blame to what you dont like.

Well, I'm personally assigning blame to Marner because he played awful for almost all of the 7 game series, dragged his line down and is a huge cap hit.

I don't care about closed doors, leadership or emotion here. It's just a fact.

 

[AndyWozniewski]

I think it's time to bring out the pitchforks and run him out of town in classic Toronto fashion.

 

[ruaware41]

Horrible take. Kessel was not "toxic" and he never quit on the team. Where are you getting this stuff from?

Phil always delivered in the playoffs and guys liked him. It wasn't his fault that our second best forward back then was Tyler Bozak and our best dman Dion Phaneuf.

I wish Mitch was as effective as Phil in the playoffs.

If Mitch was 75% of Phil we’d be in the 3rd round by now.

 

[RoadWarrior]

He almost won playoff MVP for that first cup run, give the guy some credit. I wouldn't mind someone wearing out his welcome here if he helps us win a couple of cups while doing it myself.

Nylander is Kessel 2.0. We already have that piece.

Now we need the Crosby or Malkin.

Matthews and Marner ain't it.