Mitch Marner (post playoffs) discussion thread continued...

[81Leafs50]

Of course. But I don't think that's enough to drop his value just yet, he's still an insanely talented player who has had stellar production, and he's only 24. Another team devoid of talent up front will take a chance on him.

insanely talented at what exactly? 2 powerplay pts in the last 32 regular season games. That means no playmaking. No passing. No scoring.

 

[Peasy]

Rantanen, Point and Stone play on great playoff teams. Aho and Guentzel play on arguably better playoff teams than the Leafs. You are making my point for me. Do you really think things would be much different if any of these guys replaced Marner? Do you think that Marner on those great playoff teams would play play poorly? It's the team. We have Zack "Hands" Hyman on the top line. Foligo, Thornton and Simmonds are sometimes on the PP etc etc. While we're at it our PP was horrible and could have made the difference in this series at least. Is it ONLY Marners fault that our PP sucks?

Well considering that it sounds like Marner was not willing to change up his role on the PP and how terrible the PP was with him being the main piece of it, I think he deserves a lot of the blame.

 

[Superstar]

Folks I know many of you don't get it but Mitch is trying his darndest .. he does well in regular season hockey with his creativity and edges as there is much more time and space on ice for his offensive strategies to work .. in playoff hockey things ramp up speed wise 10%+ and no one gets out of position .. Mitch does not have an extra gear .. never ever had it ever even as a kid .. and he is not strong again never was as a kid either .. so he can't create seperation from opposing player with speed or strength so his offensive skills never get a chance to work .. he may occasionally capitalize on an opponent's mistake but he can't create on his own in playoffs .. so many of you are upset with him because you think he does not care but it is exact opposite situation here .. da kid has been beat up his entire life in hockey and I am not going to get into it further .. he actually is a great kid and it really hurts him emotionally but he can't say it because it was beat out of him from an early age .. he knows what his issues are .. I have told Paul what they are many times as a kid .. but he refused to understand .. it is very unlikely Mitch will improve his stride length or get more strength .. but good on him for getting his $$$ as it is super hard to get folks .. Mitch could be a nice secondary piece (like a 6th/7th guy) on a playoff team which has a top flight tender, 2 top flight centres, 2 stud Dmen and a hard driving winger but unfortunately as I have mentioned many times earlier Dubie way overpaid him based on regular season stats (which is easy to do) but he lacks experience to understand what da true skill weaknesses are

So he's physically and mentally weak? That puck flip over the glass in game 6 leading to the 5-on-3 PP goal to put the Habs up 2-0 was inexcusable. How do we explain his last 5 of 6 penalties in the playoffs was for flipping the puck over the glass? And why did he make it his mission to bend over the Toronto Maple Leafs during his contract negotiation?

 

[stickty111]

We criticized Kessel for the same reasons for Mitch, but you know the difference? Kessel always showed up in the playoffs and played his best hockey there.

 

[Woodman19]

We criticized Kessel for the same reasons for Mitch, but you know the difference? Kessel always showed up in the playoffs and played his best hockey there.

Yeah, just not for us lol.

 

[ruaware41]

Tbh it says a lot about the guy that Keefe feels afraid of even taking him off of PP1 because it would throw his game off more than benefit him even if a shakeup can benefit the team. Nylander has been tossed from first line, 2nd line, 3rd line, to 4th line, to benched, to made an example out of, first PP, to 2nd PP, to no PP, and you didn't hear a f***ing peep out of this guy. The coaches can hold Nylander accountable because they know he's not insane in the brain and it will be beneficial for Willy and for the rest of the team as if nothing else they will see that there is accountability and it could help give the lines the shake up they need.

Marner though? No chance. I saw Siegel's quote about hesitancy of switching up PP1 because there's a nervous energy about moving Marner off PP1. With his energy he'd suck the life out of the bench. Seeing that the first thing he thought of doing last night after getting eliminated was to instantly turn off his instagram comments says all we need to know about his ability to handle adversity. He just doesn't have it in him to face the music of his failure, which is the best way to learn and motivate yourself. Mentally he's about the fluff which is why he was nervous as hell the entire game in a game 7 and largely ineffective in the playoffs, two block shots on Pasta a million years ago aside. The fact that even instagram makes him this nervous shows me his immediate thoughts are to avoid damage to his ego and anything uncomfortable, not the fact that this team lost and maybe just not checking instagram for a week.

Matthews in contrast did not look nervous out there and did not cost the Leafs a single goal all series nor take stupid penalties. He was just snake bit, not nervous. And avoiding uncomfortable situations isn't a way to ease nervousness. Matthews to his credit still has his instagram comments on so the degenerates can say whatever rude offside stuff they want about him. He'll use that as motivation next year

 

[Superstar]

Well considering that it sounds like Marner was not willing to change up his role on the PP and how terrible the PP was with him being the main piece of it, I think he deserves a lot of the blame.

He probably thought that if he needed to play at the blueline, he wouldn't be able to practice his muffin shot.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Not sure if posted but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Jesus Christ.

Trade this loser. And fire the people who enabled this. Its lunacy. We're fighting for our lives and this punk won't be flexible on his PP spot?!?!?!

 

[lottster14]

Reminder that Dubas gave Mitch and Auston insane contracts before they proved they're worth anything in the playoffs. Currently Spezza is worth more.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sending a message only works if you have established who is in charge.

So hire Boudreau first, and then trade Marner. Easy peasy.

 

[Subway Schenn]

This shouldn’t be a consideration at all. Personal relationships have nothing to do with professionalism. And if a player lets that affect them, they aren’t professionals and we don’t need them

Oh, I fully agree.... Just a scary thought to let someone with AM's talent walk for nothing..

 

[socko]

He probably thought that if he needed to play at the blueline, he wouldn't be able to practice his muffin shot.

They wanted him at the goal-line not the blueline, per the article. I saw Marner play at the blueline and he was terrible, couldn't imagine they would want to try that again.

 

[Mats13]

I hate on Marner maybe more than most, because I do it in-season when he is piling up points...
But, what options did Keefe give him, Matthews is double-triple teamed and Hyman is the next best option?
Hyman is NOT a 1st line player!
how many chances did Hyman have yeterday, and what to show for it, hit the habs logo a few times and a shoulder, shot into an open glove, and block's Marner's shot that was going into an otherwise open net?

Marner sucked overall, and while his shot has improved this season, its still below average, so, unless/until he is a scoring threat he is easy to contain ...you take away Matthews as an open option, and he has a weak shot on net, or passes to someone who cant score/finish.

maybe he tried to hard to make pretty passes, but, the whole team did... not enough shots on net overall, especially when it mattered most.
that top line needs a 2nd scoring option, not a puck retriever, because when they have the puck, they dont really need anyone to dig it out for them, and they are all good at stripping the puck.

Do you know why Matthews is double and tripled teamed all the time?

Here’s a hint: it has something to do with Marner not being able to shoot

 

[Strangle]

If Eichel’s neck injury isn’t serious, then yes a Marner for Eichel trade would be nice. Otherwise I’d try and trade Marner for Tkachuk and a 2nd.

Would Seth Jones be a consideration?

 

[realgoodleafs]

Well considering that it sounds like Marner was not willing to change up his role on the PP and how terrible the PP was with him being the main piece of it, I think he deserves a lot of the blame.

Is Marner the coach? The real question is why management and the coach seem to care what the players think when they aren't performing.

 

[stickty111]

Not sure if posted but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Yup read that last night. Marner not looking good here again.

 

[RAM]

You need to wait until after the expansion draft to trade Marner maybe you can recoup draft picks and get two or three players who will help improve our overall team I would be looking at Seattle, Vegas did really well with their draft

 

[ToneDog]

I haven't ripped Marner like some have but I find it interesting that all of his fanboys have gone MIA. One poster seemed to have an alert set on the word Marner and immediately defended him to the death.

 

[Kurtz]

Some trades just need to happen. Marner will be booed every time he touches the puck when fans are allowed back.

Kessel had to be traded. He quit on the team and was toxic. Marner is now in the same boat.

The best value from Marner will be cap space.

Horrible take. Kessel was not "toxic" and he never quit on the team. Where are you getting this stuff from?

Phil always delivered in the playoffs and guys liked him. It wasn't his fault that our second best forward back then was Tyler Bozak and our best dman Dion Phaneuf.

I wish Mitch was as effective as Phil in the playoffs.

 

[Trapper]

So hire Boudreau first, and then trade Marner. Easy peasy.

I’m with you and for that move, I just don’t think it’s going to happen with Dubas as GM.

I seriously doubt he will touch the core and being allowed to hire a 3rd coach after betting his job on the core (making no changes to it) doesn’t wash with me.

 

[Jozay]

If its true, its on the coaches. If a player doesnt do what hes told, you don't play him. If he wont move spots on the PP then he gets no PP time, simple solution. Coaches manage players play.

Yeah, looks pathetic on both sides.

 

[Superstar]

They wanted him at the goal-line not the blueline, per the article. I saw Marner play at the blueline and he was terrible, couldn't imagine they would want to try that again.

That's even worse...he doesn't want to pay the price. Look at Gallagher's face after game 7...it's all mucked up, but he won.

 

[Strangle]

Oh, I fully agree.... Just a scary thought to let someone with AM's talent walk for nothing..

Im sure we will have other losers to latch onto in short order if he walks.

I don’t feel an attachment to any of these players at this point. No heart, all losers, I question every one of these guys

 

[stickty111]

If thats true he refused to move spots on the PP...wow.

Keefe should get a lot of criticism for this series but he was handicapped by a player who wanted to do things the Marner way on the PP.

 

[socko]

That's even worse...he doesn't want to pay the price. Look at Gallagher's face after game 7...it's all mucked up, but he won.

I'm sure they meant off to the side in a passing role. I don't think it meant net front guy. He would have to do a lot of fighting for the puck along the boards in that position. Probably why he refused.