Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[BraveCanadian]

So it’s better to keep what you have, don’t trade away draft picks and fill in with the support players you think you will need. So when 11 million in cap space becomes available, it’s all bonus since the player leaving did nothing anyway.

That is one part straw man and one part completely untrue hyperbole

 

[Antropovsky]

I see you used games 3 and 4 in the Columbus series, that is not allowed, those are not games 5-7.

That's how by the way, but only including games 5-7.

Not a hard concept.



What? Matthews has been our best player in almost every series... are you being serious?



Why would you want two players who can't even make the playoffs?

Hockey is not a team game judging by this thread.

Oh now Hockey is a team game...? But it isn't when you Marner fans want to compare him to other players who don't have elite linemates?

Marner supporters:..." omg look at Marners 90 point seasons! He is much better than Aho, Barzal and Eichel..because they produce less than he does." (Ignoring the fact that Aho and Barzal play for more defensive minded teams with no elite linemates. Also ignoring the fact that elite players with elite linemates are producing up to 50 points more than Marner.)

Agreed Hockey is a team sport, which is why one must look much deeper than points.

If you use your eyes, and look closer at the stats, Marners shortcomings become very apparent. His shortcoming, because it's a team sport, heavily effect his linemates. Here is what we know:

1) Marner plays 10' further from the net in playoffs vs season. Significantly more than other core 4. How does this effect his linemates?
2) Marners playoff slot shots dry up in playoffs vs season.Significantly more than other core 4.
3) 5vs5 Matthews since he entered the league has produced a similar g/60 points/60 with anyone he plays with. Some players (ie Domi) he produced significantly more with than Marner. Matthews produced as much with Marleau in his first couple years as Marner in recent years. How does playing with Matthews benefit Marner?
4) We have alot of evidence that Matthews raises his teammates points. We don't have evidence of Marner doing it. As noted Matthews has been more productive with others than Marner.
5) Marner has many more times the giveaways in must win playoff games that have led to gwg against in big games than his linemates. At least 6, 7 if you count the Boston OT. How does this effect his linemates? How has this effected his lunemates ability to win series. Hint - very big.
6) We see with our eyes that Marners lack of speed, and strength is a big problem in playoffs. How does this effect his linemates.
7) As noted by journalists, Matthews plays a similar game in the playoffs as season (shot location, shot distance), however Marner playing much further from the net creates problems for Matthews. How has this effected Matthews ability to produce points?
8) We have two videos 4 playoffs apart showing Marner pulling the chute on simple cycle plays because he doesn't want to get hit. How does a player refusing to play cycle effect strong players capable of cyclibg like Matthews and Tavares?

Etc etc.

Points don't matter... once you "watch" the plays that Marner collects points on...you will note that his significant amount of time on ice with elite linemates is the reason he collects poiints. His elite "teammates" did the heavy lifting and gift wrap his points. He doesn't do the same for his linemates. Matthews points are despite Marner not because of Marner (while generally the reverse is true for Marner).

If you want to review all his points, let's do it. Most of the points you ll even hear the commentators say "what a play by insert players name other than Marner". That game 5 OT goal vs Tampa is a big example..Marner fans keep pointing to it as if Marner did alot. He sat at center ice I'm an open area and waited while Matthews was magnificent and did everything. A bank shot in a 2 vs 1..whoo! That's a play I seen regularly and recently saw it in an AHL game.

There is a reason Marner is taking as much heat as he does...and it's not because people have just randomly chosen him as a whipping boy. This has culminated over the last 5 playoffs.
He doesn't do the same for his linemates.

Recall that Nylander used to be the whipping boy. I even at one point didn't like his play. However, that changed because of his strong play and his play relative to his contract. People have been fair to Marner and still are.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Having an asset like Marner walk away with nothing but cap space in return is derelict.

This must have been posted dozens of times now so why are you posting it again? What's your point? The "derelict" has already happened to let it get to this point where it seems like they'd prefer to trade him, but can't do it because his NMC has kicked in and he refuses to go. Now that we're at this point though, letting him walk is quite likely the best of the available options. Losing him for nothing is gross, but giving him another long term contract for a bazillion dollars would probably be even worse.

I enjoy reading a number of things on HFBoards -- just not many of the threads on the Leafs board. And I enjoy reading them more without ads. So, that leaves me two choices: sponsorship or ad-blocker. I believe a sponsorship helps keep these boards alive while an ad-blocker hurts them. SImple as that.

The 13K+ posts you've made suggests that you care. To some people, that would seem like a colossal waste of time and they'd wonder what kind of a person wastes so much time on something so unimportant. See, it's all relative now isn't it?

 

[IPS]

The 13K+ posts you've made suggests that you care. To some people, that would seem like a colossal waste of time and they'd wonder what kind of a person wastes so much time on something so unimportant. See, it's all relative now isn't it?

It's so ridiculous.

You can't pretend like you're above it while simultaneously engaging in it. These dipshits truly have no self awareness at all.

 

[Superstar]

Your "sports car" with massive oil leaks that can't hold oil pressure under load, and a transmission that can't shift under pressure?

And clutch-less.

 

[Nineteen67]

c

This must have been posted dozens of times now so why are you posting it again? What's your point? The "derelict" has already happened to let it get to this point where it seems like they'd prefer to trade him, but can't do it because his NMC has kicked in and he refuses to go. Now that we're at this point though, letting him walk is quite likely the best of the available options. Losing him for nothing is gross, but giving him another long term contract for a bazillion dollars would probably be even worse.


The 13K+ posts you've made suggests that you care. To some people, that would seem like a colossal waste of time and they'd wonder what kind of a person wastes so much time on something so unimportant. See, it's all relative now isn't it?

I don’t know if he refused to go anywhere.

 

[Fogelhund]

So how much more time do we give them, seeing as how the three of them have already had 6 tries?

If I was the GM, I would have already made changes.... I think most of us would. We don't have that choice unfortunately, our choices are... cheer for and follow the team, or don't. They are going to do whatever it is they want... we just get to bitch about it.

 

[rojac]

The 13K+ posts you've made suggests that you care. To some people, that would seem like a colossal waste of time and they'd wonder what kind of a person wastes so much time on something so unimportant. See, it's all relative now isn't it?

An average of about 2.5 posts per day over 17 years. Or about a third of your rate of about 7.5 per day. Many of them would be calling out posters on their bullshit.

 

[Gary Nylund]

An average of about 2.5 posts per day over 17 years. Or about a third of your rate of about 7.5 per day. Many of them would be calling out posters on their bullshit.

Some people post more than you, some people post less than you, some people lurk here but never post, some people don't know that this place even exists. Like I said - it's all relative.

Your 13K+ posts shows that you care, end of story. What's the point of pretending otherwise?

 

[centipede2233]

Oh now Hockey is a team game...? But it isn't when you Marner fans want to compare him to other players who don't have elite linemates?

Marner supporters:..." omg look at Marners 90 point seasons! He is much better than Aho, Barzal and Eichel..because they produce less than he does." (Ignoring the fact that Aho and Barzal play for more defensive minded teams with no elite linemates. Also ignoring the fact that elite players with elite linemates are producing up to 50 points more than Marner.)

Agreed Hockey is a team sport, which is why one must look much deeper than points.

If you use your eyes, and look closer at the stats, Marners shortcomings become very apparent. His shortcoming, because it's a team sport, heavily effect his linemates. Here is what we know:

1) Marner plays 10' further from the net in playoffs vs season. Significantly more than other core 4. How does this effect his linemates?
2) Marners playoff slot shots dry up in playoffs vs season.Significantly more than other core 4.
3) 5vs5 Matthews since he entered the league has produced a similar g/60 points/60 with anyone he plays with. Some players (ie Domi) he produced significantly more with than Marner. Matthews produced as much with Marleau in his first couple years as Marner in recent years. How does playing with Matthews benefit Marner?
4) We have alot of evidence that Matthews raises his teammates points. We don't have evidence of Marner doing it. As noted Matthews has been more productive with others than Marner.
5) Marner has many more times the giveaways in must win playoff games that have led to gwg against in big games than his linemates. At least 6, 7 if you count the Boston OT. How does this effect his linemates? How has this effected his lunemates ability to win series. Hint - very big.
6) We see with our eyes that Marners lack of speed, and strength is a big problem in playoffs. How does this effect his linemates.
7) As noted by journalists, Matthews plays a similar game in the playoffs as season (shot location, shot distance), however Marner playing much further from the net creates problems for Matthews. How has this effected Matthews ability to produce points?
8) We have two videos 4 playoffs apart showing Marner pulling the chute on simple cycle plays because he doesn't want to get hit. How does a player refusing to play cycle effect strong players capable of cyclibg like Matthews and Tavares?

Etc etc.

Points don't matter... once you "watch" the plays that Marner collects points on...you will note that his significant amount of time on ice with elite linemates is the reason he collects poiints. His elite "teammates" did the heavy lifting and gift wrap his points. He doesn't do the same for his linemates. Matthews points are despite Marner not because of Marner (while generally the reverse is true for Marner).

If you want to review all his points, let's do it. Most of the points you ll even hear the commentators say "what a play by insert players name other than Marner". That game 5 OT goal vs Tampa is a big example..Marner fans keep pointing to it as if Marner did alot. He sat at center ice I'm an open area and waited while Matthews was magnificent and did everything. A bank shot in a 2 vs 1..whoo! That's a play I seen regularly and recently saw it in an AHL game.

There is a reason Marner is taking as much heat as he does...and it's not because people have just randomly chosen him as a whipping boy. This has culminated over the last 5 playoffs.
He doesn't do the same for his linemates.

Recall that Nylander used to be the whipping boy. I even at one point didn't like his play. However, that changed because of his strong play and his play relative to his contract. People have been fair to Marner and still are.

Well said. It’s amazing the icetime marner gets and the talent he plays with and the production is horrendous in the playoffs. Marner is so petrified of contact when it’s ramped up in the playoffs, stats indicate marner shoots the puck 10 feet further than the reg season. It’s why his goal totals are almost zilch. Not many goalies are letting in 40 foot muffin shots in the playoffs. If treliving gives marner the nylander contract, he and the entire leafs organization will regret it. Marner is not a $11-12 million dollar player in the playoffs, he never will be. He wants the big bonus on July 1, he wants the no trade, he wants all the icetime, he wants a coach that won’t criticize his fragile ego, and yet he can’t even atleast try and get to the dirty areas where playoff goals happen. Screw him and screw the leafs. The entire franchise is a joke, MLSE all the way down

 

[seanlinden]

Do you know what was offered? Do you know when it was offered?

If you do, please tell us. If not, you are complaining about something you know nothing about.

You're assuming he didn't make an informed decision because you don't have the information.

I don't know / recall what was offered.

What I do know, is that Nylander signed for $11.5m x 8 years after playing exceptionally well for half a season.

The Leafs SHOULD have put their foot down on June 25th, and said, we either make a deal in the next 2-3 days, or we're going to trade you for the best possible package. That price point, should have looked at Sebastien Aho, Pierre Luc Dubois, Johnny Gaudreau, Brayden Point, Matthew Tkachuk, Timo Meier, Filip Forsberg, Matthew Barzal, Roope Hintz, Jordan Kyrou, Robert Thomas, and said "he's somewhere in & amongst that group".

You don't need to know exactly what was offered in trade to know that there would have been SOMETHING good. He was a guy with no to limited trade protection, coming off a 40-goal season. That basic profile alone dictates that he would have had substantial value, even if it makes us a worse team in isolation.

 

[seanlinden]

Probably slotted, pay wise appropriately, he's top 10 in scoring since 2016-17, top 5 in game winning assists.

Yeah, which is why he's likely "properly slotted" as a 10-15 player in the league... given that:
- Goals are "worth" more than assists, with him being assist heavy.
- He's not a defenceman (who would have different standards of production); Cale Makar & Roman Josi are better players than Marner, despite putting up less points.
- He's not a centre, and while he's "fine" defensively, it's not like you stick Mitch Marner on Connor McDavid to try and shut down the league's best.

 

[Captain Crunch]

If I was the GM, I would have already made changes.... I think most of us would. We don't have that choice unfortunately, our choices are... cheer for and follow the team, or don't. They are going to do whatever it is they want... we just get to bitch about it.

I tend to be one of the loudest! Haha

 

[LeafGrief]

I check HFboards about five times a day hoping that we've traded Marner. I mean, hope is really far too strong of a word, more like mildly optimistic that surely by NOW they're going to do something big to change the team for next year. I have zero expectations that they actually will, the path of the least resistance is the defining feature of this team with Shanahan as an executive, but hey, I take comfort in the routine and there's some fun there in the way that I imagine scratch lottery tickets are.

 

[IPS]

Yeah, which is why he's likely "properly slotted" as a 10-15 player in the league... given that:
- Goals are "worth" more than assists, with him being assist heavy.
- He's not a defenceman (who would have different standards of production); Cale Makar & Roman Josi are better players than Marner, despite putting up less points.
- He's not a centre, and while he's "fine" defensively, it's not like you stick Mitch Marner on Connor McDavid to try and shut down the league's best.

Most people don't even talk about winger's defensive games much unless they're those rare wingers who really seperate themselves from the pack, like Hossa, Stone and Zetterberg (who the wings alternated between C and W).

Is Marner having the same effect on his team defensively as these guys did, especially in the postseason? Not even f***ing close.

 

[Fogelhund]

I check HFboards about five times a day hoping that we've traded Marner. I mean, hope is really far too strong of a word, more like mildly optimistic that surely by NOW they're going to do something big to change the team for next year. I have zero expectations that they actually will, the path of the least resistance is the defining feature of this team with Shanahan as an executive, but hey, I take comfort in the routine and there's some fun there in the way that I imagine scratch lottery tickets are.

The odds that they trade Marner at this point is a number close to zero. We can't accept a futures trade, teams can't afford to trade D, as there are none left in UFA to fill holes... we can't sign a new RW, as there are none left in UFA... so a deal becomes almost impossible now.

 

[mikeyz]

You really need to change your name to confused. lol. I’m blown away at how that’s what you think you’ve read from most posters. You’re either clueless or trolling.

I'm honestly starting to think that he's a troll too.

 

[mikeyz]

Oh now Hockey is a team game...? But it isn't when you Marner fans want to compare him to other players who don't have elite linemates?

Marner supporters:..." omg look at Marners 90 point seasons! He is much better than Aho, Barzal and Eichel..because they produce less than he does." (Ignoring the fact that Aho and Barzal play for more defensive minded teams with no elite linemates. Also ignoring the fact that elite players with elite linemates are producing up to 50 points more than Marner.)

Agreed Hockey is a team sport, which is why one must look much deeper than points.

If you use your eyes, and look closer at the stats, Marners shortcomings become very apparent. His shortcoming, because it's a team sport, heavily effect his linemates. Here is what we know:

1) Marner plays 10' further from the net in playoffs vs season. Significantly more than other core 4. How does this effect his linemates?
2) Marners playoff slot shots dry up in playoffs vs season.Significantly more than other core 4.
3) 5vs5 Matthews since he entered the league has produced a similar g/60 points/60 with anyone he plays with. Some players (ie Domi) he produced significantly more with than Marner. Matthews produced as much with Marleau in his first couple years as Marner in recent years. How does playing with Matthews benefit Marner?
4) We have alot of evidence that Matthews raises his teammates points. We don't have evidence of Marner doing it. As noted Matthews has been more productive with others than Marner.
5) Marner has many more times the giveaways in must win playoff games that have led to gwg against in big games than his linemates. At least 6, 7 if you count the Boston OT. How does this effect his linemates? How has this effected his lunemates ability to win series. Hint - very big.
6) We see with our eyes that Marners lack of speed, and strength is a big problem in playoffs. How does this effect his linemates.
7) As noted by journalists, Matthews plays a similar game in the playoffs as season (shot location, shot distance), however Marner playing much further from the net creates problems for Matthews. How has this effected Matthews ability to produce points?
8) We have two videos 4 playoffs apart showing Marner pulling the chute on simple cycle plays because he doesn't want to get hit. How does a player refusing to play cycle effect strong players capable of cyclibg like Matthews and Tavares?

Etc etc.

Points don't matter... once you "watch" the plays that Marner collects points on...you will note that his significant amount of time on ice with elite linemates is the reason he collects poiints. His elite "teammates" did the heavy lifting and gift wrap his points. He doesn't do the same for his linemates. Matthews points are despite Marner not because of Marner (while generally the reverse is true for Marner).

If you want to review all his points, let's do it. Most of the points you ll even hear the commentators say "what a play by insert players name other than Marner". That game 5 OT goal vs Tampa is a big example..Marner fans keep pointing to it as if Marner did alot. He sat at center ice I'm an open area and waited while Matthews was magnificent and did everything. A bank shot in a 2 vs 1..whoo! That's a play I seen regularly and recently saw it in an AHL game.

There is a reason Marner is taking as much heat as he does...and it's not because people have just randomly chosen him as a whipping boy. This has culminated over the last 5 playoffs.
He doesn't do the same for his linemates.

Recall that Nylander used to be the whipping boy. I even at one point didn't like his play. However, that changed because of his strong play and his play relative to his contract. People have been fair to Marner and still are.

This is 100% bang on

 

[Hellcat]

Yeah, which is why he's likely "properly slotted" as a 10-15 player in the league... given that:
- Goals are "worth" more than assists, with him being assist heavy.
- He's not a defenceman (who would have different standards of production); Cale Makar & Roman Josi are better players than Marner, despite putting up less points.
- He's not a centre, and while he's "fine" defensively, it's not like you stick Mitch Marner on Connor McDavid to try and shut down the league's best.

This "fine" guy gets Selke votes every year. Very few of his peers play ES/SH/PP, I think only Marchand has less ES time. He's 10th in scoring over the last 6 years/ he is in the top 5% of production, makes sense he would be in the top 5% of cap hit.

 

[LeafGrief]

The odds that they trade Marner at this point is a number close to zero. We can't accept a futures trade, teams can't afford to trade D, as there are none left in UFA to fill holes... we can't sign a new RW, as there are none left in UFA... so a deal becomes almost impossible now.

Indeed, I had much more hope around July 1st.

They should get a new mural for the dressing room. "We tried, but it was too hard. We'll get 'em next year"

 

[Hellcat]

Oh now Hockey is a team game...? But it isn't when you Marner fans want to compare him to other players who don't have elite linemates?

Did you just get here? It's always been a team game, this has been the debate with you for the last 2 weeks, you were the one who wanted to compare Marner to Barzal and others. remember when you said Marner is slow and does not have break away speed like Barzal and I showed you a video of Mitch scoring on a breakaway and the skater chasing him and not closing on Mitch was Barzal? One of the many times reality was at odds with your posts? Gaslight much? The nerve of some people...LOL.

 

[Enniskillen]

Who looks at the current lists of NHL highest paid players and says you know Marner needs a raise as that will make the Leafs more Cup competitive?

View attachment 895211

Amazing how dubas managed to get involved on 33 percent of these contracts, club destroyer lol

 

[Enniskillen]

Cute but you missed the point that Marner was never, has never been on the market, it was a BS construct built but click bait journalist, to sucker the more gullible Leaf fans to click on their completely fabricated story. Now they are butt hurt crying about something they thought was going to happen, is not going to happen... one has to be pretty f***ing stupid to think Mitch was ever going to be traded.

you should get paid for your posts by Marner’s charity. You can change transmission in your sports car or something.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don't know / recall what was offered.

What I do know, is that Nylander signed for $11.5m x 8 years after playing exceptionally well for half a season.

The Leafs SHOULD have put their foot down on June 25th, and said, we either make a deal in the next 2-3 days, or we're going to trade you for the best possible package. That price point, should have looked at Sebastien Aho, Pierre Luc Dubois, Johnny Gaudreau, Brayden Point, Matthew Tkachuk, Timo Meier, Filip Forsberg, Matthew Barzal, Roope Hintz, Jordan Kyrou, Robert Thomas, and said "he's somewhere in & amongst that group".

You don't need to know exactly what was offered in trade to know that there would have been SOMETHING good. He was a guy with no to limited trade protection, coming off a 40-goal season. That basic profile alone dictates that he would have had substantial value, even if it makes us a worse team in isolation.

Again, you don't know.

Certainly he should have commanded a lot, but what if he didn't? What if the best offer was two 3rd round picks?

Would you trade you second best player for that?

All you are doing is guessing based on no evidence. Which is your prerogative, but at least admit that this is what you are doing

 

[William Johnson]

(Again, apologies for another long-winded post; feel free to skip/ignore, obviously! Thanks in advance to anyone who bothers to read it)

I think there’s been a lot of hyperbole on both sides of the Marner debate in this thread and others, but, I’ve been particularly gobsmacked by some of the statements from his more ardent supporters recently and thought I’d try a bit of a deeper dive into his playoff performance. Full disclosure – I soured on Marner years ago initially due to the contract but subsequently due to what I see as his softness and his failure to deliver when it matters in the playoffs. I respect the fact we can’t all agree, of course, but I get curious that I must be missing something when I see some of the following opinions about Playoff Marner: not only is Marner one of our ‘highest producing’ and ‘best playoff performers’, he is actually ‘one of the best in the league’ or even ‘one of the best players in the world’ in the playoffs. Just to reiterate, these are actually statements made here not about Regular Season Marner but about Playoff Marner.

I had some time to kill this week, so I decided to go back and try to see if I could analyse Marner’s contributions to winning games in the playoffs. I’m sure there are many flaws and imperfections in this approach, but, for what it’s worth, here are my findings, hopefully presented in a way that is relatively easy to digest and consider:

Key: Game Winning Points/Goals: GWP/GWG

Wins (Score)	GWP	GWG Scorer	Marner stats
Boston 2024
Game 3 (3-2)	0	Matthews	0 points
Game 5 (2-1)	0	Knies OT	1 primary assist
Game 6 (2-1)	0	Nylander	0 points
Marner series summary: 0 points in Game 7 clinching loss; 1 goal and 2 primary assists for 3 points total; 0 points in 3 of 7 games; 1 point in 3 wins and 2 points in losses
Florida 2023
Game 4 (2-1)	1	Marner	1 goal, 1 secondary assist
Marner series summary: 0 points in Game 5 clinching loss; 1 goal, 1 primary assist, 1 secondary assist for 3 points total; 0 points in 3 of 5 games; 2 points in 1 win and 1 point in 4 losses
Tampa 2023
Game 2 (7-2)	0	Nylander	2 goals, 1 primary assist
Game 3 (4-3)	0	Rielly OT	1 primary and 1 secondary assist
Game 4 (5-4)	0	Kerfoot OT	2 primary assists
Game 6 (2-1)	0	Tavares OT	0 points
Marner series summary: 0 points in Game 6 clinching win; 3 goals, 4 primary assists and 4 secondary assists for 11 points total; 0 points in 1 of 6 games; 7 points in 4 wins and 4 points in 2 losses
Tampa 2022
Game 1 (5-0)	0	Muzzin	1 goal, 2 primary assists
Game 3 (5-2)	0	Kampf	1 secondary assist
Game 5 (4-3)	1	Matthews	1 primary assist
Marner series summary: 1 secondary assist in Game 7 clinching loss; 2 goals, 4 primary assists, 2 secondary assists for 8 points total; 0 points in 2 of 7 games; 5 points in 3 wins and 3 points in 4 losses
Montreal 2021
Game 2 (5-1)	1	Matthews	1 primary assist, 1 secondary assist
Game 3 (2-1)	1	Rielly	1 secondary assist
Game 5 (4-0)	0	Nylander	0 points
Marner series summary: 0 points in Game 7 clinching loss; 0 goals, 2 primary assists and 2 secondary assists for 4 points total; 0 points in 4 of 7 games; 3 points in 3 wins and 1 point in 4 losses; 2 delay of game penalties
Columbus 2020
Game 2 (3-0)	0	Matthews	0 points
Game 4 (4-3)	1	Matthews OT	3 secondary assists
Marner series summary: 0 points in Game 5 clinching loss; 0 goals, 1 primary assist and 3 secondary assists for 4 points total; 0 points in 3 of 5 games; 3 points in 2 wins and 1 point in 3 losses
Boston 2019
Game 1 (4-1)	1	Marner	2 goals
Game 3 (3-2)	0	Johnsson	1 secondary assist
Game 5 (2-1)	0	Kapanen	0 points
Marner series summary: 0 points in Game 7 clinching loss; 2 goals, 1 primary assist and 1 secondary assist for 4 points total; 0 points in 4 of 7 games; 3 points in 3 wins and 1 point in 4 losses
Boston 2018
Game 3 (4-2)	0	Matthews	2 primary assists
Game 5 (4-3)	1	Van Riemsdyk	1 primary assist
Game 6 (3-1)	1	Marner	1 goal, 1 primary assist
Marner series summary: 1 primary assist in Game 7 clinching loss; 2 goals, 5 primary assists and 2 secondary assists for 9 points total; 0 points in 1 of 7 games; 5 points in 3 wins and 4 points in 4 losses
Washington 2017
Game 2 (4-3)	0	Kapanen	1 primary assist
Game 3 (4-3)	0	Bozak	0 points
Marner series summary: 0 points in Game 6 clinching loss; 1 goal, 2 primary assists and one secondary assist for 4 points total; 0 points in 3 of 6 games; 1 point in 2 wins and 3 points in 4 losses

As I said, I’m sure there are things to pick apart here in the methodology and I welcome critiques and criticisms. For example, the whole GWP/GWG thing can be seen as a bit arbitrary, as we know, and this might be most glaring in the 2023 series against Tampa (our only win, as we’re all painfully aware): Marner had 11 points in 6 games, which is obviously good. Despite this, he had no GWP in 2023, which would seem to understate his contributions to winning games. However, it’s important, I think, to point out he had no assists on the three OT winners. I would argue that sudden death OT winners are less arbitrary as measures of winning games.

For me, the most telling statistics are Marner’s numbers in deciding games. In 9 series-deciding games, Marner has one primary assist and one secondary assist, both in losses. That’s 7 deciding games with zero points. They’ve lost all five loser-goes-home games and, when it matters most, Marner has mustered two assists.

So, is he one of the best in the world in the playoffs? I wish it was true, but I can’t see how he’s even one of the best on our team, at least in the post-season.

Again, thanks for reading.

PS: Apologies for not including Expected stats in my analysis, so happy for any experts to show how these actually prove Marner to be clutch.