Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[rumman]

I think if you gave Shanahan the choice between a guaranteed Cup that he would get no credit for and he would lose his job today or guaranteed first round exits and another 3 to 4 years of earning paychecks for doing little to absolutely nothing, he picks choice B every time. He's here to squeeze every dollar out of the team before they realize what a total fraud he is. For a long time, his selling of the core is what he used for that purpose. Now that tactic is starting to be a detriment, he's dashing for darkness like a roach with a flashlight on him.

Chelios nailed it when he described him, like to a tee……….

 

[socko]

Chelios nailed it when he described him, like to a tee……….

I meant to put this in the other thread. Oops. Anyways, Shanahan is a used cars salesman or a politician. He'll tell you what he thinks you want to hear. Want to be reassured about the core? Shanahan has that covered. Not enough people believe in the core anymore? Well, Shanahan will talk about moving on. And then he won't follow through. Just like a politican. Full of BS to the day he's fired.

 

[MCR74]

I meant to put this in the other thread. Oops. Anyways, Shanahan is a used cars salesman or a politician. He'll tell you what he thinks you want to hear. Want to be reassured about the core? Shanahan has that covered. Not enough people believe in the core anymore? Well, Shanahan will talk about moving on. And then he won't follow through. Just like a politican. Full of BS to the day he's fired.

Shanahan and Marner are cut from the same mold - cushy job, overpaid, so no need to bust your ass.

 

[rumman]

Shanahan and Marner are cut from the same mold - cushy job, overpaid, so no need to bust your ass.

Indeed……

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Calgary is retaining 31.25% of Markstrom's salary, bringing his cap hit in New Jersey down to $4.125 million for the next two seasons. Markstrom waived his full no-movement clause to facilitate the move.

Waived.

NMC.

Like Marner will.

What? No one EVER waives their NMC. It's impossible!

 

[Mess]

Mitch Marner’s projected next contract has Leafs’ fans frustrated​

Is this what the future has in store for Marner?

 

[PromisedLand]

Agreed, but without Marner knowing it, Treliving could be doing his due diligence homework behind the scenes currently .... Right now he is blocked by a NMC.

Teams interested in Marner's service have two obstacles, and that is completing a successful trade with Leafs GM that he would take, and also be prepared to meet Marner's future salary demands.

When the timing is right and BT has a trade he would accept he can then give that team permission to talk contract with Darren Farris directly even. BT however could also talk contract with Marner getting a good feel for his asking price on next contract to pass that info along to interested parties. Treliving would not re-sign him until he already had a firm commitment from another team on term, cost and price of assets exchanged in trade.

The real goal here is to complete a successful sign and trade deal (the sooner the better) where Marner is on board and then the current NMC becomes just a formality if all 3 sides can come to terms. My scenario was to show that from Marner's perspective IF the Leafs want to move on from him, it would be in Marner's best long-term interest to co-operate and participate because for him the end result is the same that his time in TO is over and he will be moving on and that is inevitable 1 way or the other.

PS. Don't forget about salary retention also where Leafs could agree to pick up a portion in order to facilitate a trade and even if it got to Marner with a new contract and no trade imminent (worst case scenario) without any trade protection a deal is still possible to see a successful trade without the contract being the issue. If the new team wants Marner at $10 mil AAV instead of $12 AAV then that becomes a part of the negotiation and factors into the exchange in the trade. Trading a re-signed Marner returns greater value then a 1 year rental and pending UFA would also to the other party as well when dealing away assets to obtain his services.

An 8th year (only possible for the Leafs to provide) otherwise it 7 years max could be a 8 year X $12.5 mil deal with a $2.5 mil Leafs retention, and a new team getting Mitch at 8 X $10 mil less than he makes now AAV. Just toss in pick(s) / prospects etc to compete a deal that Toronto would accept to offset retention costs/benefits.

Not disagreeing with the options but I really don't want to retain any salary if we do a sign and trade. If we have to retain salary for next season so we can dump him then thats a different thing. Its just one year of salary retention.

There were rumours after Matthews signed his deal that Marner would be looking for a short term so he could cash in again when the new TV deal/revenue opens up for NHL. If Marner is looking to cash in; I don't think he is looking for 8 yr deal. Leafs should wash their hands off of him and move the F on. We are not running a freakin' charity to throw money at players who SUCK in playoffs.

 

[Mess]

Not disagreeing with the options but I really don't want to retain any salary if we do a sign and trade. If we have to retain salary for next season so we can dump him then thats a different thing. Its just one year of salary retention.

There were rumours after Matthews signed his deal that Marner would be looking for a short term so he could cash in again when the new TV deal/revenue opens up for NHL. If Marner is looking to cash in; I don't think he is looking for 8 yr deal. Leafs should wash their hands off of him and move the F on. We are not running a freakin' charity to throw money at players who SUCK in playoffs.

Leafs new CEO Keith Pelley has the ability to put his money where is mouth is and simply state that "He won't approve any future Marner extension, his time is up in TO".

If he is serious about his speech of wanting to win not sell jersey's then that show of faith would begin with a Marner trade or if he plays hardball then let him walk.

Re-signing him for $11-13 mil suggests he is full of crap and anything he says is simply lip service. Doubling down on this core that has won 1 playoff series win in 8 years is simply tossing more good money after bad and would keep fueling the same fire of incompetence when it comes to understanding how to build a competitive playoff team.

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs new CEO Keith Pelley has the ability to put his money where is mouth is and simply state that "He won't approve any future Marner extension, his time is up in TO".

If he is serious about his speech of wanting to win not sell jersey's then that show of faith would begin with a Marner trade or if he plays hardball then let him walk.

Re-signing him for $11-13 mil suggests he is full of crap and anything he says is simply lip service. Doubling down on this core that has won 1 playoff series win in 8 years is simply tossing more good money after bad and would keep fueling the same fire of incompetence when it comes to understanding how to build a competitive playoff team.

Pelley is not qualified to make roster decisions. Thankfully he’s smart enough to know that.
Why would you think he would have any clue on how to build a competitive playoff team?

 

[LeafEgo]

I don’t know, I was trying to act like a casual so he would spill info but he was pretty secretive. I’m surprised he let that comment drop. He specifically said the leafs, I have no idea if he actually meant Treliving or maybe someone in the organization

Just a corporate thing to say. Interesting they were in town. How did you know they were top guys?

 

[Mess]

Pellet is not qualified to make roster decisions. Thankfully he’s smart enough to know that.
Why would you think he would have any clue on how to build a competitive playoff team?

Shanahan certainly doesn't

All Pelley has to do is look at Leafs playoff scorers and see 1 goal and 2 assists for Marner in 7 games and that should be enough evidence for anyone to say its time to move on.

If that is not his Cup of tea then simply get rid of Shanahan and give us a President that has a clue about icing a competitive playoff team.

 

[keonsbitterness]

very true !

It's weird people don't see this as different. It clearly is.

It's weird people don't see Tre will have no flexibility long term by signing Marner and it WILL COST him his job quickly.

if Tre repeats Dubas' failures he's gonzo very quickly.

I think Marner is 100% done in Toronto. 100%.

Essentially Marner *CANNOT* be resigned. He just can't. Moving Marner is the essential change.

What if the Leafs don't receive any offers they like?

Leafs new CEO Keith Pelley has the ability to put his money where is mouth is and simply state that "He won't approve any future Marner extension, his time is up in TO".

He'll do jack if Tre wants to extend Marner. I'm not even convinced Pelley has the power to fire anyone unless the board tells him to.

 

[leafs in five]

I think if you gave Shanahan the choice between a guaranteed Cup that he would get no credit for and he would lose his job today or guaranteed first round exits and another 3 to 4 years of earning paychecks for doing little to absolutely nothing, he picks choice B every time. He's here to squeeze every dollar out of the team before they realize what a total fraud he is. For a long time, his selling of the core is what he used for that purpose. Now that tactic is starting to be a detriment, he's dashing for darkness like a roach with a flashlight on him.

how would you ensure that shanahan got no credit for the cup?

 

[notdoneyet]

Just a corporate thing to say. Interesting they were in town. How did you know they were top guys?

Yep some high ranking kings personnel would let a complete unknown in on plans about a trade. And then complain to this same unknown that leafs are hard to work with as they want everything.

Yep that’s credible lol

 

[Racer88]

All we need from Pelley is that he hold his management team accountable for failure. Full stop. He should not affect roster decisions at all.
Unfortunately he has failed his first test by not firing Shanny immediately for allowing the Dubas/Keefe debacle to go on as long as it has
We are very much in danger of missing the window of what could have been the biggest rebuild of all time

 

[ACC1224]

Shanahan certainly doesn't

All Pelley has to do is look at Leafs playoff scorers and see 1 goal and 2 assists for Marner in 7 games and that should be enough evidence for anyone to say its time to move on.

so you believe that anyone can run the team, no experience necessary just by looking at stats?
Makes sense

 

[Arzak]

Matthews has been injured for multiple years which drags down Marner's #s both at ES and the PP.

Also, Marner played with an injured Hyman apparently which also drags down his #s.

Marner is actually a great playoff performer but he has played with injured players, I am sure you are aware of this.

Does this work both ways or no?

Oh yeah, let's cry about mandatory assists Mitch missed. That's a new one.

Mitch is 50 point player without Matthews but you dare to complain Mitch could parasite more? Interesting take.

edit: no need to call Mitch names!

 

[Trapper]

so you believe that anyone can run the team, no experience necessary just by looking at stats?
Makes sense

I would certainly hope not.
Looking at stats alone is for the fans. Reference these threads for that.

Winning the Cup involves looking at everything. Construction, cap, history, compete, playoff styles, direct competition, etc.

 

[Nineteen67]

Shanahan certainly doesn't

All Pelley has to do is look at Leafs playoff scorers and see 1 goal and 2 assists for Marner in 7 games and that should be enough evidence for anyone to say its time to move on.

That, and he has 100 yrs of history on his side to review.

Plus there’s a lot of pressure to do something different this year. Typically by June 20th the SCF is long over and fans and media have forgotten what they watched in April and peg the Leafs as favourites to win the Cup. That’s not the case this year.

 

[Nineteen67]

Have you watched him play in the playoffs? Did you see anything concerning with his play?

Matthews has been injured for multiple years which drags down Marner's #s both at ES and the PP.

Also, Marner played with an injured Hyman apparently which also drags down his #s.

Marner is actually a great playoff performer but he has played with injured players, I am sure you are aware of this.

Does this work both ways or no?

 

[Nineteen67]

Calgary is retaining 31.25% of Markstrom's salary, bringing his cap hit in New Jersey down to $4.125 million for the next two seasons. Markstrom waived his full no-movement clause to facilitate the move.

Waived.

NMC.

Like Marner will.

The issue the Leafs have is finding a trading partner that’s willing to pay Marner.

 

[Notsince67]

Shanahan certainly doesn't

All Pelley has to do is look at Leafs playoff scorers and see 1 goal and 2 assists for Marner in 7 games and that should be enough evidence for anyone to say its time to move on.

Single variate worlds are fantastic to run. Who would have thought the world is so simple?
While we are at it, lets ban the pumping of oil to solve global warming and tax the rich 100% to give everyone else a great lifestyle.

 

[Notsince67]

The issue the Leafs have is finding a trading partner that’s willing to pay Marner.

Why would a team willing to pay give up anything for additionally for Marner before he enters UFA?
Why would Marner dilute his haul from such a team by insisting they should pay the Leafs first?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The issue the Leafs have is finding a trading partner that’s willing to pay Marner.

Exactly. Marner is in for a big reality check.

 

[Trapper]

Why would a team willing to pay give up anything for additionally for Marner before he enters UFA?
Why would Marner dilute his haul from such a team by insisting they should pay the Leafs first?

I could only imagine because that team wants him now, doesn’t want to get into a UFA bidding war where another team could drive up the price or thinks the Leafs may cave before UFA and sign him anyway.

Other than that, I can’t see anyone but the Leafs possibly paying him more than what MacKinnon is scheduled to make this year.
He’s not worth 12 million to me, but the Leafs have dug themselves a hole with previous contracts and giving Nylander 11.5.