Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Trapper]

If you believe some of the insiders, it is not how it is expected to play out. There is a chance he is not traded because Tre is not able to find a suitable trade partner but Mitch will be told they are moving on. If he thinks waiting a year is best for him, good luck but either way he is done here.

If I am running the show and it was decided he is not part of the future, Mitch is moving to PP2 and not playing with Matthews. I can't see him getting over 90 points if he is not on PP1 and not playing with Matty.

Marner doesn’t control his ice time, linemates or deployment. I’d also take the A off his jersey and put in on Nylander so he could look at it all year.

 

[JKG33]

Keeping things simple, Mitchy holds all the power right now. He says whether he stays or goes until next July 1st when he hits UFA.

If I was him, I'd play the 'I'm honouring my contract' card and ride out the year, put up PP points feeding Matthews/Willie then cash in as a UFA.

We're not going to win this situation, it was lost when Dubas gave out a NMC in the last year of his contract.

The Leafs can play hardball just as easily. Put Tavares and Nylander together. Matthews on the first line with two of the better wingers.

Leave Mitchy-poo to carry the 3rd line and 2nd unit PP. He won't like that in a contract year.

That's only if he plays hardball to force is way onto the team without entertaining a trade

 

[LeafGrief]

Why on earth does anyone need to "back up claims" that Marner sucked in the playoffs. We all have eyeballs, this isn't some outrageous hot take that he was hot garbage in Montreal, unplayable hot garbage against Florida, and hot garbage against Boston this year.

He put up 10 points in the first 4 games against the Lightning last year. Wow!!!!
He put up 4 points in the next 7 games, 1 in Game 5 against Tampa, 3 in the 5 against Florida. Booo!!!
He was the worst Leaf on the ice in the Florida game 3. Boo!!
He scored the GWG in game 4 against Florida. Yay!
It was a seeing-eye muffin from the point. Hmmm, okay.
He was invisible for almost the entirety of 7 games against Boston. Booo!!!
He scored an amazing solo-effort goal in game 4. Yay!

Seriously, the idea that someone needs stats or proof of Marner's poor performance is ridiculous. There were hockey games broadcast on live TV that we all watched. How we interpret those games varies widely, but I think it's quite safe to say that his performance was poor enough that huge swathes of the fanbase have soured on him entirely. I'm not at all surprised that there's people who are still holding onto a candle for him and I am entirely sympathetic to the notion that we should keep him because he'll manage to figure it out. I can live with the argument that he was good in both the Tampa series. But that he wasn't terrible against Florida, Boston #3, and Montreal, is demanding that we ignore our own eyeballs and that's just not a tenable argument.

In our two most recent playoff series, and what should have been a gimme against our biggest rivals three years ago, he was AWFUL. There can be no serious arguments that do not at least acknowledge dramatic underachievement on his part. There is plenty of blame to go around to the other players if Marner getting blasted really hurts someone's sensibilities, but this is the Marner thread after all and there are plenty of people, like me, who think that he is the biggest culprit. Now, I may just be another moron poster on the internet, I've watched this game long enough, played this game long enough, talked about this game long enough to know when an 11m player is playing like shit. We watch him play amazing hockey the other 82 games of the year, this is basic apples to apples comparing here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Start backing up your claims that the numbers are somehow skewed by impact on all the games or keep your silly posts out of adult forums. You are the one making audacious claims based on nothing.

You use the word "adult" a lot but behave like a childish schoolyard bully.

Keeping things simple, Mitchy holds all the power right now. He says whether he stays or goes until next July 1st when he hits UFA.

If I was him, I'd play the 'I'm honouring my contract' card and ride out the year, put up PP points feeding Matthews/Willie then cash in as a UFA.

We're not going to win this situation, it was lost when Dubas gave out a NMC in the last year of his contract.

I'd say it was lost only at the point when we let it get that far. If we trade him after the MTL series (or even last summer) then we're not in the unfortunate situation that we find ourselves in today.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner doesn’t control his ice time, linemates or deployment. I’d also take the A off his jersey and put in on Nylander so he could look at it all year.

As Mirtle said, his camp knows what is going on. Personally I do not see what they gain playing out the year for a team that tells you there are moving on. Hopefully they are smarter behind the scenes than they appear.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Expected line driving now? 65pt pace is not good line driving.

77 point pace over the last 5 years, and 71 point this year. All while playing on the second line with JT and various nobodys.

Pretend it's not the case all you want - l have no problem with that.

 

[GoonieFace]

They all sucked in the playoffs. Marner is simply just the guy that needs to go.

No way you trade Matthews, he’s a centre and scored 69 goals.

Willy has the speed and strength to excel in the playoffs.

Marner is none of these things. It’s not blind hate, it’s common sense.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Like usual you need help here. Marner outperformed Willy last year. A simple analysis would show this. Marner had a bigger impact on winning games and less of an negative impact on losing games.
Only the lazy and dumb would say such things.

A simple analysis? Willy had more goals and points, more ES goals and points, more PP goals, assists, and points, more SH goals and points, more OT goals, and more GWG, all while playing mainly with JT, while Mitch was playing mainly with Matty.

But I agree - only the lazy and dumb would say such things as "Marner outperformed Willy last year."

 

[ACC1224]

A simple analysis? Willy had more goals and points, more ES goals and points, more PP goals, assists, and points, more SH goals and points, more OT goals, and more GWG, all while playing mainly with JT, while Mitch was playing mainly with Matty.

But I agree - only the lazy and dumb would say such things as "Marner outperformed Willy last year."

I thought Nylander really closed the gap last year and had the best year of his career, while Marner may have had his worse.
Didn't Nylander have higher point totals because he played considerably more games?

Both ends of the ice and competing every night Nylander still has a ways to go though.

Sorted by P/PG

 

[Gary Nylund]

A simple analysis? Willy had more goals and points, more ES goals and points, more PP goals, assists, and points, more SH goals and points, more OT goals, and more GWG, all while playing mainly with JT, while Mitch was playing mainly with Matty.

But I agree - only the lazy and dumb would say such things as "Marner outperformed Willy last year."

BOOM!

 

[ULF_55]

I just dropped into this thread because my life has been too exciting recently, with stressful work deadline that has come and gone, vacation to BC, moving out of the house, moving into an AirBnB, preparing to move back into the same house, taking the 4 dogs for walks, watching the Hitler series so I need something to numb the brain.

Nothing happening here ... thanks.

So there might be trades, not marner, in the week or two between Stanley and the Draft eh?

 

[Notsince67]

I’d love to see this simple analysis. I’m not even a Marner hater, but from where I’m sitting say he outperformed Nylander doesn’t seem at all well supported.

Against Tampa


Game 1...lost to Tampa 3-7
Marner 3 points...Nylander 1 point
EV On ice GA...Marner 0, Nylander 2

Best...Marner

Game 2 Won 7-2
Team only needed first 3 points to win
Marner 1 point, Nylander 1 point
EV on Ice GA...Marner 1, Nylander 1

Best...tie

Game 3 Won 4-3
Marner 2 points, Nylander 1 point
EV on ice GA...Marner 0, Nylander 2

Best...Marner

Game 4 Leafs win 5-4
Marner 2points, Nylander 3 points
EV on ice GA Marner 0, Nylander 2

Best...Marner

Game 5 Leafs lost 2-4
Marner 1 point, Nylander 0 points
EV on ice GA Marner 1, Nylander 1

Best...Marner

Game 6 Leafs win 2-1
Marner 0 points, Nylander 0 points
EV on ice GA Marner 0, Nylander 1

Best Marner

Against Florida

Game 1 leafs lost 2-4
Marner 0 points, Nylander 0 points
EV on ice GA Marner22, Nylander 0

Best Nylander

Game 2 Leafs lost 2-3
Marner 1 point, Nylander 0 points
EV on ice GA Marner 1, Nylander 2

Best Marner

Game 3 Leafs lost 2-3
Marner 0 points, Nylander 1 point
EV on ice GA Marner 1, Nylander 0

Best Nylander

Game 4 Leafs won 2-1
Marner 2 points, Nylander 1 point
EV on ice GA Marner 0, Nylander 0

Best Marner

Game 5 Leafs lost 2-3
Marner 0 points, Nylander 1 point
EV on ice GA Marner 0, Nylander 1

Best Tied

A simple analysis? Willy had more goals and points, more ES goals and points, more PP goals, assists, and points, more SH goals and points, more OT goals, and more GWG, all while playing mainly with JT, while Mitch was playing mainly with Matty.

But I agree - only the lazy and dumb would say such things as "Marner outperformed Willy last year."

I just posted my work. Where is yours?

 

[Nineteen67]

Keeping things simple, Mitchy holds all the power right now. He says whether he stays or goes until next July 1st when he hits UFA.

If I was him, I'd play the 'I'm honouring my contract' card and ride out the year, put up PP points feeding Matthews/Willie then cash in as a UFA.

We're not going to win this situation, it was lost when Dubas gave out a NMC in the last year of his contract.

He holds all the cards including playing time? If he does hold all the cards, why not re-sign four years for a dollar less than Matthews?

 

[ACC1224]

I just dropped into this thread because my life has been too exciting recently, with stressful work deadline that has come and gone, vacation to BC, moving out of the house, moving into an AirBnB, preparing to move back into the same house, taking the 4 dogs for walks, watching the Hitler series so I need something to numb the brain.

Nothing happening here ... thanks.

So there might be trades, not marner, in the week or two between Stanley and the Draft eh?

What's the 'Hitler series'? I need a new show

 

[notDatsyuk]

I thought Nylander really closed the gap last year and had the best year of his career, while Marner may have had his worse.
Didn't Nylander have higher point totals because he played considerably more games?

Both ends of the ice and competing every night Nylander still has a ways to go though.

Sorted by P/PG

View attachment 881618

I thought Nylander really widened the gap last year, as he keeps getting better each year while Marner doesn't.

I think it's time we put to rest the idea that Marner is some spectacular defensive player while Nylander is a black hole.

 

[ACC1224]

I thought Nylander really widened the gap last year, as he keeps getting better each year while Marner doesn't.

I think it's time we put to rest the idea that Marner is some spectacular defensive player while Nylander is a black hole.

ok

 

[Notsince67]

I just dropped into this thread because my life has been too exciting recently, with stressful work deadline that has come and gone, vacation to BC, moving out of the house, moving into an AirBnB, preparing to move back into the same house, taking the 4 dogs for walks, watching the Hitler series so I need something to numb the brain.

Nothing happening here ... thanks.

So there might be trades, not marner, in the week or two between Stanley and the Draft eh?

I was just in BC for vacation myself a few weeks ago. Travelled a lot through the interior. Beautiful area.

 

[Nineteen67]

Why on earth does anyone need to "back up claims" that Marner sucked in the playoffs. We all have eyeballs, this isn't some outrageous hot take that he was hot garbage in Montreal, unplayable hot garbage against Florida, and hot garbage against Boston this year.

He put up 10 points in the first 4 games against the Lightning last year. Wow!!!!
He put up 4 points in the next 7 games, 1 in Game 5 against Tampa, 3 in the 5 against Florida. Booo!!!
He was the worst Leaf on the ice in the Florida game 3. Boo!!
He scored the GWG in game 4 against Florida. Yay!
It was a seeing-eye muffin from the point. Hmmm, okay.
He was invisible for almost the entirety of 7 games against Boston. Booo!!!
He scored an amazing solo-effort goal in game 4. Yay!

Seriously, the idea that someone needs stats or proof of Marner's poor performance is ridiculous. There were hockey games broadcast on live TV that we all watched. How we interpret those games varies widely, but I think it's quite safe to say that his performance was poor enough that huge swathes of the fanbase have soured on him entirely. I'm not at all surprised that there's people who are still holding onto a candle for him and I am entirely sympathetic to the notion that we should keep him because he'll manage to figure it out. I can live with the argument that he was good in both the Tampa series. But that he wasn't terrible against Florida, Boston #3, and Montreal, is demanding that we ignore our own eyeballs and that's just not a tenable argument.

In our two most recent playoff series, and what should have been a gimme against our biggest rivals three years ago, he was AWFUL. There can be no serious arguments that do not at least acknowledge dramatic underachievement on his part. There is plenty of blame to go around to the other players if Marner getting blasted really hurts someone's sensibilities, but this is the Marner thread after all and there are plenty of people, like me, who think that he is the biggest culprit. Now, I may just be another moron poster on the internet, I've watched this game long enough, played this game long enough, talked about this game long enough to know when an 11m player is playing like shit. We watch him play amazing hockey the other 82 games of the year, this is basic apples to apples comparing here.

When we watched the games no one defended him and felt it was time to move on. When Ferraro commented a day or so after the series that he (Marner) was disinterested, no one disputed it. As we get further away from the playoffs some people forget what he was.

Most felt the playoffs were an opportunity for him to prove himself in the playoffs and he failed miserably. In fact I think he was worse this than previous years. We can only conclude that he has no compete in him or doesn’t want to play for the Leafs.

 

[myleafs]

Let me know if you ever get tired of the schoolyard insults and feel like discussing hockey like a adult.

Thats his shtick and all hes got....The irony is he is calling others lazy and dumb......such an unpleasant poster.

 

[Notsince67]

What's the 'Hitler series'? I need a new show

A gentleman in Moscow is damn good. An account of an aristocrat during and post Bolshevik revolution starring Ewan McGregor

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

The Boys and The House of the Dragon are getting new seasons this month. Both excellent shows that's been a while since the last season.

 

[myleafs]

Florida was up 3-0 against us.
Game 4, Matthews and Tavares scored. Leafs win 2-1.

Game 5, Nylander and Reilly score. Leafs lose 3-2. Lose series 4-1.

Ah yes....good times

 

[socko]

I thought Nylander really widened the gap last year, as he keeps getting better each year while Marner doesn't.

I think it's time we put to rest the idea that Marner is some spectacular defensive player while Nylander is a black hole.

They're going in different directions for many years. Someone posted Marner blocking shots intentionally yesterday. That was a blast from the past.

 

[myleafs]

I still think Marner for Shane Wright + First from Seattle make a lot of sense. I doubt we get a significant piece (great current player). Futures, makes more sense to me.

Sign Lindholm.
Use Marner Cap Space to address Defense.
Use First Round (Seattle) pick to acquire a goalie.
Bring Domi back
Trade Kampf
(Matthews/Lindholm/JT/Wright/Holmberg/Minten) is excellent depth.

This also allows us to pressure JT to take a low AAV if he wants to come back. Play him at LW.

Just playing with cap friendly to see what this ends up looking like.

You had me right up t the bolded then I sighed....no thanks to Tavares returning. Lets change the culture.

Marner doesn’t control his ice time, linemates or deployment. I’d also take the A off his jersey and put in on Nylander so he could look at it all year.

Paul doesn't like that

 

[notDatsyuk]

Against Tampa


Game 1...lost to Tampa 3-7
Marner 3 points...Nylander 1 point
EV On ice GA...Marner 0, Nylander 2

Best...Marner

Game 2 Won 7-2
Team only needed first 3 points to win
Marner 1 point, Nylander 1 point
EV on Ice GA...Marner 1, Nylander 1

Best...tie

Game 3 Won 4-3
Marner 2 points, Nylander 1 point
EV on ice GA...Marner 0, Nylander 2

Best...Marner

Game 4 Leafs win 5-4
Marner 2points, Nylander 3 points
EV on ice GA Marner 0, Nylander 2

Best...Marner

Game 5 Leafs lost 2-4
Marner 1 point, Nylander 0 points
EV on ice GA Marner 1, Nylander 1

Best...Marner

Game 6 Leafs win 2-1
Marner 0 points, Nylander 0 points
EV on ice GA Marner 0, Nylander 1

Best Marner

Against Florida

Game 1 leafs lost 2-4
Marner 0 points, Nylander 0 points
EV on ice GA Marner22, Nylander 0

Best Nylander

Game 2 Leafs lost 2-3
Marner 1 point, Nylander 0 points
EV on ice GA Marner 1, Nylander 2

Best Marner

Game 3 Leafs lost 2-3
Marner 0 points, Nylander 1 point
EV on ice GA Marner 1, Nylander 0

Best Nylander

Game 4 Leafs won 2-1
Marner 2 points, Nylander 1 point
EV on ice GA Marner 0, Nylander 0

Best Marner

Game 5 Leafs lost 2-3
Marner 0 points, Nylander 1 point
EV on ice GA Marner 0, Nylander 1

Best Tied


I just posted my work. Where is yours?

Mine is actually what you quoted, but ignored.

Yours seems to be primarily based on +/- on a previous season.