Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Gabriel426]

Defense doesn't matter.

The start of a series doesn't matter.



Not producing in games 1-4 is also a problem, that is my only argument.



Games 1-4 are also important to winning a series...

I asked questions and you didn’t answer.
The fact that you can’t give me a straight answer already shown your opinion.
Meaningful discussion can only begin when you answer simple questions

Plus 10 on a losing team when the next best performer is a plus 2, tells me he has been our best performer

If you want to live in that bubble, great.
Bc you are literally the only one that is using plus/minus as the sole determining factor on the importance and impact of players.

 

[notbias]

You think you're being clever, good for you. Marner was OK against TB, just OK. Then he was pretty much useless against Floria, just like he was pretty much useless this spring. If you think he was good ... all I can say is LOL.

Re. this insane #4 of yours, you think I'm pumping Marner's tires?



Now you're just being absurd.

Marner has been so bad, that almost everyone wants him gone. That includes the fans, the media (including knowledgeable ex players like O'Dog) and most importantly, that includes management. But you're somehow still blissfully unaware of what the reality is.


Marner's issue has always been that the more pressure there is, the worse he plays. That's why he fades after the first few games, and that's why he was so bad against Florida. I can't even imagine how bad he's likely to be if despite Marner's choking, we somehow made it to round 3.


I guess some people will believe anything once the koolaid takes effect. Or maybe he's on Marner's payroll, who knows.

I'm not reading all this... you add nothing to this conversation based on facts, all just opinion and mindless drivel.

I don't see a single fact in here, only a lot of "trust me"

I asked questions and you didn’t answer.
The fact that you can’t give me a straight answer already shown your opinion.
Meaningful discussion can only begin when you answer simple questions

What questions do you want answered? It is hard to keep up with your poorly formatted paragraphs... not hating, but it is fact, they are just walls of text.

 

[Confucius]

I asked questions and you didn’t answer.
The fact that you can’t give me a straight answer already shown your opinion.
Meaningful discussion can only begin when you answer simple questions


If you want to live in that bubble, great.
Bc you are literally the only one that is using plus/minus as the sole determining factor on the importance and impact of players.

Well yeah I think being on the ice for more goals scored than allowed means alot. Surprised the island isn’t more crowded. lol!

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not reading all this... you add nothing to this conversation based on facts, all just opinion and mindless drivel.

I don't see a single fact in here, only a lot of "trust me"

So you're commenting on my posts, without even reading them. You know what, that explains a lot!

 

[arso40]

Well yeah I think being on the ice for more goals scored than allowed means alot. Surprised the island isn’t more crowded. lol!

A player only plays 1 position the goalies job is to keep the pucc out the eye test tells you where the deficiency lies and there's no way you watched our team the last couple years and thought that marners doing his job

 

[keonsbitterness]

Plus 10 on a losing team when the next best performer is a plus 2, tells me he has been our best performer

For the record, Marner is -1 in games 5-7 since 2019.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well yeah I think being on the ice for more goals scored than allowed means alot. Surprised the island isn’t more crowded. lol!

Plus minus was dismissed as a useful stat for measuring individual player performance a very long time ago.

 

[Gabriel426]

I'm not reading all this... you add nothing to this conversation based on facts, all just opinion and mindless drivel.

I don't see a single fact in here, only a lot of "trust me"



What questions do you want answered? It is hard to keep up with your poorly formatted paragraphs... not hating, but it is fact, they are just walls of text.

Way to avoid to answering question.
It is always easy to blame others. Now it is the way I write that confuse you but it seems to be fine with all other posters here.

Here it is again.

Let’s say MM plays on another team and have the same individual regular season and playoffs stats while his team also had the same regular season and playoffs success as the Leafs, ONE series win in 8 seasons.

Would you want the Leafs to trade for MM with his 10.893mil contract or sign him as UFA for 12milx7yrs?

Not hating but just want to be clear as you might be confuse with the walls of text. MM is Mitch Marner and he is not playing on the Leafs.

 

[Dreakmur]

Plus minus was dismissed as a useful stat for measuring individual player performance a very long time ago.

Plus is useful. Minus is useful. Together, then can be used, but sometimes they mask each other.

 

[notbias]

For the record, Marner is -1 in games 5-7 since 2019.

I don't understand the weird obsession with ignoring games 1-4 like they don't matter.

 

[hamzarocks]

I'm just asking for stats, you made a statement about how much worse he was, I'd just like to see for myself, that's all.

Winning in the first 1-4 games is important too, that was my only point about Kucherov... he has 0 points in game 7s but is not known as a choker because he produces and the team plays well around him in deciding games.

He also doesnt need posters defending his honor on the boards due to his playoff dominance over 140+ games and vs multiple elite defenses/teams

2 - 30 pt playoff runs
2 - addition 20+ pt playoff runs

Marner and the Crew are 70ish pt players over their playoff careers as leafs (except for Tavares who at 50ish)

Marner and the leafs lost to the 2024 Bruins. This bruins team had no offensive threats outside of Pastrnak and we couldnt dominate them

Leafs have a huge core issue.

We are trying to win in the playoffs with players whi are just low end 1st liners as our core

I don't understand the weird obsession with ignoring games 1-4 like they don't matter.

50 in 57 is all that matters

You cant win with TJ oshie making 11M and as your expected 2nd best player

 

[Gabriel426]

Well yeah I think being on the ice for more goals scored than allowed means alot. Surprised the island isn’t more crowded. lol!

A player only plays 1 position the goalies job is to keep the pucc out the eye test tells you where the deficiency lies and there's no way you watched our team the last couple years and thought that marners doing his job

For the record, Marner is -1 in games 5-7 since 2019.

Plus minus was dismissed as a useful stat for measuring individual player performance a very long time ago.

Thanks for replying on my behalf to Confucius.

But he is right, MM is plus 10 and Leafs best playoffs performer and yet there seem to be no taker to trade for our best playoff performer who is also a 100pt player in the regular season. I guess other teams just got better playoff performers than MM.

 

[Trapper]

234 pages of debating Marners worth or lack of, but nothing changes the fact that you cannot
, absolutely cannot build a team with this cap allocation. Of course Marner has value but not to any team that already has 3 other soft 11 million plus forwards.
One if not both of Marner or Tavares needs to go. Like it or not Matthews and Willy are locked up.
Reality is both Marner and Tavares will be on the Team next season and we will have to just suck up one more wasted season.

Marner is the one who needs to move.
Tavares (if he stays) will take care of the situation for us. His salary and term are only going to decrease. Marner is going to take more without giving it.
Marner has 11 goals in 8 years, for 11 million, that’s just not feasible. The same number as Rielly.
His best year (3 goals in a playoff series) came last year when Marner and Rielly were just wristing them in from above the circles against a horrible Vas. Both assisting on each other. Rielly (a defenceman with no shot has 11 goals as well). Can’t have a forward doing that at his cost.

 

[Confucius]

For the record, Marner is -1 in games 5-7 since 2019.

Can we break if down to if game 7 lands on a Tuesday, he is just abysmal

 

[notbias]

Way to avoid to answering question.
It is always easy to blame others. Now it is the way I write that confuse you but it seems to be fine with all other posters here.

Here it is again.

Let’s say MM plays on another team and have the same individual regular season and playoffs stats while his team also had the same regular season and playoffs success as the Leafs, ONE series win in 8 seasons.

Would you want the Leafs to trade for MM with his 10.893mil contract or sign him as UFA for 12milx7yrs?

Not hating but just want to be clear as you might be confuse with the walls of text. MM is Mitch Marner and he is not playing on the Leafs.

At their current contracts (or the 12x7 you suggested), I'd probably only want Matthews, and maybe Marner (but probably not).

I don't think Nylander offers anything if he doesn't produce.

Marner at least offers something defensively, but I wouldn't bet on him like I would Matthews.

I also think that some of these players may need a change of scenery and I think that'd be my thinking too if they weren't on my team.

This all also depends on the structure of my team.

Thanks for having a coherent post, it is appreciated and much easier to follow.

50 in 57 is all that matters

You cant win with TJ oshie making 11M and as your expected 2nd best player

That's the highest PPG out of all of our players...

 

[ToneDog]

Seriously, I doubt there was any time when Mitch would get you Willy plus a first.

You might be right wrt Nylander but if you look at what Tre got for Tkachuk, a 30-40 goal scorer (e.g. Jarvis, Raymond, Kyrou, Konecny, Ek) and a 1st is very possible if a GM wants him badly.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I don't understand the weird obsession with ignoring games 1-4 like they don't matter.

They matter, but we have zero sweeps with this core, so 5-7 matter more. All but one best-of-7 went 6 or 7.

 

[notbias]

You might be right wrt Nylander but if you look at what Tre got for Tkachuk, a 30-40 goal scorer (e.g. Jarvis, Raymond, Kyrou, Konecny, Ek) and a 1st is very possible if a GM wants him badly.

I don't know if we should be aiming for the return that Tre got for Tkachuk...

 

[keonsbitterness]

Can we break if down to if game 7 lands on a Tuesday, he is just abysmal

Too much work for me, lol.

 

[notbias]

They matter, but we have zero sweeps with this core, so 5-7 matter more. All but one best-of-7 went 6 or 7.

To get to games 5, 6, and 7, you need to play well in games 1-4.

To get a sweep, you need to play well in games 1-4.

I think all games matter, I'll agree that closing a series out is very important, not sure it needs to be restricted to 5, 6, and 7.

Just anytime we've had a chance to close out a series.

 

[Gabriel426]

At their current contracts (or the 12x7 you suggested), I'd probably only want Matthews, and maybe Marner (but probably not).

I don't think Nylander offers anything if he doesn't produce.

Marner at least offers something defensively, but I wouldn't bet on him like I would Matthews.

I also think that some of these players may need a change of scenery and I think that'd be my thinking too if they weren't on my team.

This all also depends on the structure of my team.

Thanks for having a coherent post, it is appreciated and much easier to follow.



That's the highest PPG out of all of our players...

You don’t need to bring in AM or Willie to the discussions but I see your point.

So basically, you would not trade for Marner nor sign him at UFA

Plus you think a trade would be best for Marner

 

[hamzarocks]

At their current contracts (or the 12x7 you suggested), I'd probably only want Matthews, and maybe Marner (but probably not).

I don't think Nylander offers anything if he doesn't produce.

Marner at least offers something defensively, but I wouldn't bet on him like I would Matthews.

I also think that some of these players may need a change of scenery and I think that'd be my thinking too if they weren't on my team.

This all also depends on the structure of my team.

Thanks for having a coherent post, it is appreciated and much easier to follow.



That's the highest PPG out of all of our players...

Yes and I am saying all the core 4 + rielly (though he is a d-man so hmif he was ahead of the core 4 hed be a tier better than he is) are not producing enough

We extended nylander to a terrible 11.5M and Matthews despite his choking habits is a generational goal scorer who probably can be a top 2 player for a cup winner

Marner is the odd man left. You cant give 12-13M x 8 to him. That is insanity.

Tavares is a cap dump otherwise if he had value he would be the guy to move based on age and performance and future outlook

Marner has to go otherwise its going to be the same summer again and same playoff loss next June

The only other option short of the core 4 finding out how not to see their production fall off a cliff next year is Cowan making the team and being a 60-70 pt rookie as D+2 player. That would change the complexion if this team and basically give us a core level player for 2 years + JT 11M to add 2 high end pices on top of the WN, AM, MM and Cowan

 

[notbias]

You don’t need to bring in AM or Willie to the discussions but I see your point.

So basically, you would not trade for Marner nor sign him at UFA

Plus you think a trade would be best for Marner

I think trading Nylander would have been best, that ship has sailed, so if we can improve the team by trading Marner, sure.

I want to win

 

[Confucius]

Plus minus was dismissed as a useful stat for measuring individual player performance a very long time ago.

I see, maybe when comparing plus minus players on different teams. I think it means quite a bit when just used for players on the same team. I understand, I’m probably incorrect again. I’m just stating my opinion.

 

[Gabriel426]

You might be right wrt Nylander but if you look at what Tre got for Tkachuk, a 30-40 goal scorer (e.g. Jarvis, Raymond, Kyrou, Konecny, Ek) and a 1st is very possible if a GM wants him badly.

In hindsight, it was not a good deal for Tre and the Flames but when it happened, it was arguably the best deal in the past 5yrs.
And it was not a win win for both, Tre and Flames fleeced the Cats.
Hubie’s production is as good if not better than Tkachuk. Then you add Weegar and a 1st. Plus the kicker is Tkachuk asking to be traded to Panthers. Just Hubie for Tkachuk would had been a good deal for the Flames.