Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[notbias]

It is amazing to see people talking like Nylander has always been a stud in the playoffs.

All it will take is for Marner to have a good playoff next year and people will turn on whoever the worst is of the bunch.

Our fanbase has the memory of a goldfish.

like you and the rest of the Dubites did when everything was Lou's fault, what goes around comes around..............

If you want to keep discussing Dubas, go to the Pens board maybe?

 

[Arzak]

Kyle was fired before he could make the deal but yes I agree Kyle was going to move him. But that’s the whole point, you can’t let the guy strong hold you, trade his rights and let another team deal with his non sense. All I’m saying is Dubas could have had a stronger back bone

True, true. F*ck fake glasses Kyle. He f*cked the Leafs on so many different levels.

Kyle is the number one to blame in this mess. He demonstrated jelly fish level of backbone. Could Mitch get a better deal? In theory? Let's say they let Zamboni driver handle Mitch's contract. I can't see it being this bad.

 

[Gary Nylund]

View attachment 881284

It is amazing to see people talking like Nylander has always been a stud in the playoffs.

All it will take is for Marner to have a good playoff next year and people will turn on whoever the worst is of the bunch.

Our fanbase has the memory of a goldfish.

If you want to keep discussing Dubas, go to the Pens board maybe?

Pro sports has always been a what have you done for me lately kind of thing.

Recent weight is given more weight than performance from years ago, that only makes sense.

Marner has been really bad in the playoffs as of late.

Marner is the master at collecting points in the playoffs that have minimal impact.

If Marner has a good playoff next year ( ), of course his rating will go up and the same can be said for any player.

I hope that helps.

 

[socko]

If Marner doesn't go through a complete transformation as a player, then any good playoff would likely just be luck and small sample size. You can't succeed in the playoffs over time playing out on the perimeter. Nobody ever has. Even Gretzky didn't do that. Marner passed up an empty net because it was scary.

And let's face it, he's not going through that transformation. He has a better chance of becoming the Pope.

 

[notbias]

Pro sports has always been a what have you done for me lately kind of thing.

Recent weight is given more weight than performance from years ago, that only makes sense.

Marner has been really bad in the playoffs as of late.

Marner is the master at collecting points in the playoffs that have minimal impact.

If Marner has a good playoff next year ( ), of course his rating will go up and the same can be said for any player.

I hope that helps.

Marner wasn't bad last year, has led the team in playoff points over the last 3 years, and only he and Matthews are PPG or better in that time frame.

Nylander has fewer points than Rielly over the last 3 years.

Marner has the best goal differential of any player on the Leafs outside of Rielly,

At even strength, over 54 games, Nylander has helped his team score one more goal than being scored on at 5v5, this ties him with Ennis, Gauthier, Plekanec, and Marleau.

Nylander is tied with Rielly for most goals against at 5v5.

All of this looks worse for Nylander if you condense it to a more recent time frame like the last 3 years (-1 at 5v5 and by himself for most goals allowed at 5v5).

There are also two sides to the ice which people forget, and it is why someone like Marner gets a longer leash.

Hope those numbers help.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This Darren Ferris is a horrible agent.

Start a thread about him. More discussion needed.

Sorry, criticism is not allowed about those who Pay The Money on this website. Anyone who denies there are several "influencers" here from the various player agencies is totally naïve.

Upvote me before this post vanishes.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Everyone knows that when Tre and Ferris say they aren’t talking and won’t do a play by play …… you know they are talking and will be on the phone constantly from late June to mid July.

 

[GoonieFace]

Marner wasn't bad last year, has led the team in playoff points over the last 3 years, and only he and Matthews are PPG or better in that time frame.

Nylander has fewer points than Rielly over the last 3 years.

Marner has the best goal differential of any player on the Leafs outside of Rielly,

At even strength, over 54 games, Nylander has helped his team score one more goal than being scored on at 5v5, this ties him with Ennis, Gauthier, Plekanec, and Marleau.

Nylander is tied with Rielly for most goals against at 5v5.

All of this looks worse for Nylander if you condense it to a more recent time frame like the last 3 years (-1 at 5v5 and by himself for most goals allowed at 5v5).

There are also two sides to the ice which people forget, and it is why someone like Marner gets a longer leash.

Hope those numbers help.

Show me one big moment Marner had in the playoffs? Any playoff season, besides tossing the puck over the glass.

His points are empty calories. 2 straight postseasons without a single goal. This year was invisible. He piled on meaningless points against Tampa last year to make his stats look at least decent, still trash though.

11 career playoff goals in 57 games. That’s sad

 

[Superstar]

Kyle was fired before he could make the deal but yes I agree Kyle was going to move him. But that’s the whole point, you can’t let the guy strong hold you, trade his rights and let another team deal with his non sense. All I’m saying is Dubas could have had a stronger back bone

Might not have been a great trade if Dubas was around to ship Marner off...he was probably gonna trade Mitch Marner for Erik Karlsson, considering that's his key acquisition for the Pens to bring another Cup for Crosby and Malkin, lol...what a disaster that would have been for TO...glad he's gone.

 

[TMLAM34]

I don’t think the Leafs are going to “corner” Marner. At the end of the day, Marner holds all the cards. Tre will do his job and listen to offers, if there’s a deal that makes sense, he’ll approach Marner to see if he’d waive.

“Cornering” Marner doesn’t make any sense and works against us. There’s no point in playing hardball when Marner holds all the power whether he wants to move or not. Marner should have been moved last year before his NMC kicked in which Shanny should have been fired for for getting to this point.

 

[notbias]

Show me one big moment Marner had in the playoffs? Any playoff season, besides tossing the puck over the glass.

His points are empty calories. 2 straight postseasons without a single goal. This year was invisible. He piled on meaningless points against Tampa last year to make his stats look at least decent, still trash though.

11 career playoff goals in 57 games. That’s sad

Not sure what is considered a big playoff moment, if only goals count, it may be harder to find.

Here is a meaningless point that he collected in garbage time by playing a perfect shot-pass off the goalie.



Here is another meaningless point 47 seconds into a game to set the tone, this time he makes an interception at the blueline to lead to a penalty and then uses his muffin shot to score.



I know we see Nylander diving all over the ice blocking shots so this is normal, but I like the effort here.



Just a nice play here so figured I'd share.



Shocking that the guy who is primarily a playmaker doesn't score a lot.

 

[socko]

Shocking that the guy who is primarily a playmaker doesn't score a lot.

And the team's offense in the playoffs consistently sucks. And his linemate Matthews consistently underperforms. And the PP he runs is consistently crappy. But he has a few more points than everyone else since all the poor offense runs through him, so he must be good then right?

And the shot blocking was from before he was paid I do believe. Think that is below his pay grade now.

 

[notbias]

And the team's offense in the playoffs consistently sucks. And his linemate Matthews consistently underperforms. And the PP he runs is consistently crappy. But he has a few more points than everyone else since all the poor offense runs through him, so he must be good then right?

So he gets the blame for everyone?

I 100% agree Marner has not been good, but acting like he is the only problem is insane and it seems to be the narrative now.

And over their careers, it likely goes Matthews > Marner > Nylander for playoff performances.

And the shot blocking was from before he was paid I do believe. Think that is below his pay grade now.

I'm terrified to see how bad Nylander will be after his raise.

 

[socko]

So he gets the blame for everyone?

I 100% agree Marner has not been good, but acting like he is the only problem is insane and it seems to be the narrative now.

And over their careers, it likely goes Matthews > Marner > Nylander for playoff performances.



I'm terrified to see how bad Nylander will be after his raise.

I just want him gone. Then, we'll find out. You might even be pleasantly surprised, unless you're working for Marner.

 

[Gabriel426]

Marner wasn't bad last year, has led the team in playoff points over the last 3 years, and only he and Matthews are PPG or better in that time frame.

Nylander has fewer points than Rielly over the last 3 years.

Marner has the best goal differential of any player on the Leafs outside of Rielly,

At even strength, over 54 games, Nylander has helped his team score one more goal than being scored on at 5v5, this ties him with Ennis, Gauthier, Plekanec, and Marleau.

Nylander is tied with Rielly for most goals against at 5v5.

All of this looks worse for Nylander if you condense it to a more recent time frame like the last 3 years (-1 at 5v5 and by himself for most goals allowed at 5v5).

There are also two sides to the ice which people forget, and it is why someone like Marner gets a longer leash.

Hope those numbers help.

You are right, MM wasn’t bad last playoffs, I agree with you 100% bc MM was horrible last playoffs.

 

[notbias]

You are right, MM wasn’t bad last playoffs, I agree with you 100% bc MM was horrible last playoffs.

I was referring to the Tampa series, he was bad these playoffs against Boston.

 

[Gabriel426]

I was referring to the Tampa series, he was bad these playoffs against Boston.

You are picking series where he was okay and ignoring series that he choked. If you are going to ref the last few years than why not the Panthers series or even the Habs series.

 

[notbias]

You are picking series where he was okay and ignoring series that he choked. If you are going to ref the last few years than why not the Panthers series or even the Habs series.

Overall he was better than Nylander over his career but he has had more extremes.

If you want to read the whole post and then tell me how Nylander has helped the team on the defensive side of the puck like Marner, I am all ears.

Nylander has been more consistent offensively recently, that's all.

Marner produced the same as Nylander in the Florida series by the way.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner wasn't bad last year, has led the team in playoff points over the last 3 years, and only he and Matthews are PPG or better in that time frame.

Nylander has fewer points than Rielly over the last 3 years.

Marner has the best goal differential of any player on the Leafs outside of Rielly,

At even strength, over 54 games, Nylander has helped his team score one more goal than being scored on at 5v5, this ties him with Ennis, Gauthier, Plekanec, and Marleau.

Nylander is tied with Rielly for most goals against at 5v5.

All of this looks worse for Nylander if you condense it to a more recent time frame like the last 3 years (-1 at 5v5 and by himself for most goals allowed at 5v5).

There are also two sides to the ice which people forget, and it is why someone like Marner gets a longer leash.

Hope those numbers help.

If you think he wasn't bad last year and points tell the story, there's nothing more to say here. I figure there are 4 possibilities:

1 - you didn't watch the playoffs
2 - you watched the playoffs, but your Marner bias is preventing you from understanding what you're watching
3 - you don't understand hockey
4 - you're part of Marner's camp and pumping his tires here is your job

 

[notbias]

If you think he wasn't bad last year and points tell the story, there's nothing more to say here. I figure there are 4 possibilities:

1 - you didn't watch the playoffs
2 - you watched the playoffs, but your Marner bias is preventing you from understanding what you're watching
3 - you don't understand hockey
4 - you're part of Marner's camp and pumping his tires here is your job

Are the playoffs still ongoing? Then last year was 2023.

Unless you think he was bad in 2023, in that case.

1 - you didn't watch the playoffs
2 - you watched the playoffs, but your Marner bias is preventing you from understanding what you're watching
3 - you don't understand hockey
4 - you're part of Treliving's camp and pumping his tires here is your job

 

[Gabriel426]

Overall he was better than Nylander over his career but he has had more extremes.

If you want to read the whole post and then tell me how Nylander has helped the team on the defensive side of the puck like Marner, I am all ears.

Nylander has been more consistent offensively recently, that's all.

Marner produced the same as Nylander in the Florida series by the way.

Willie really started being better in playoffs since the Habs series. And he did scored more goals than AM, MM and JT combined in the last two playoffs series.
MM is not paid to play defense as someone like Soup who is as effective as or just slightly worse as MM is being paid 4.25mil and Nucks fans are calling that an overpayment. If any team spent 11mil on a player and the defense is that he is a great defensive player, that’s a really bad argument.
Put it this way, let’s say MM’s career is play on another team with the same individual and team stats. Do you really think you won’t be laughing at MM and the fans of his team when they defend his playoffs value as being a defensive specialist?

 

[notbias]

Willie really started being better in playoffs since the Habs series. And he did scored more goals than AM, MM and JT combined in the last two playoffs series.
MM is not paid to play defense as someone like Soup who is as effective as or just slightly worse as MM is being paid 4.25mil and Nucks fans are calling that an overpayment. If any team spent 11mil on a player and the defense is that he is a great defensive player, that’s a really bad argument.
Put it this way, let’s say MM’s career is play on another team with the same individual and team stats. Do you really think you won’t be laughing at MM and the fans of his team when they defend his playoffs value as being a defensive specialist?

I think Marner, Matthews, and Nylander all have underperformed, I'm only defending Marner because people are acting like he is by far the worst.

I think Nylander is the worst but it is close, especially based on recent playoffs.

But if Nylander is scoring all these goals but letting in a lot too, the goals become less valuable. To win the game you have to outscore the opponent, and Marner constantly does, Nylander doesn't.

If you think being scored on doesn't matter, I guess there isn't much to talk about.

 

[NVious]

Not sure what is considered a big playoff moment, if only goals count, it may be harder to find.

Here is a meaningless point that he collected in garbage time by playing a perfect shot-pass off the goalie.



Here is another meaningless point 47 seconds into a game to set the tone, this time he makes an interception at the blueline to lead to a penalty and then uses his muffin shot to score.



I know we see Nylander diving all over the ice blocking shots so this is normal, but I like the effort here.



Just a nice play here so figured I'd share.



Shocking that the guy who is primarily a playmaker doesn't score a lot.

Marner's points/60 go from 12th in the season to 45th in the playoffs. His goals go from 102nd in the season to 205th in the playoffs, just ahead of individuals like Glendening, Matt Martin and Nick Foligno.

He basically turns into a low end 2nd liner, what is a low end 2nd liner worth? Not 11 million dollars, that's what.

57 games is enough sample, he's not a dawg, he's not him and he's gonna wanna a raise, no thanks.

Soft skill wingers can be had relatively easily, big centers not so much, but if your point is that Nylander wasn't great at the start of his career and Matthews has been brutal the last 2 series, I agree, it's just that they're even harder to trade than Marner.

But there is nothing to defend in Marner, he basically turns into the 60th best player in the league come playoff time and a bad part of that is half the teams miss the playoffs so there are guys who would likely bump him even lower.

The 60th best player in the league isn't worth 11 million, not even close and that guy wants a raise? No thank you.

If he loves Toronto so much, why doesn't he sign a 1 or 2 year extension at 1-2 million? Because he doesn't, it's all about the money for him, he can stay if he wants to so badly, but he doesn't and he's not at all some untouchable God, he's closer to a Clarke Macarthur type player than a Connor McDavid type player.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think Marner, Matthews, and Nylander all have underperformed, I'm only defending Marner because people are acting like he is by far the worst.

I think Nylander is the worst but it is close, especially based on recent playoffs.

But if Nylander is scoring all these goals but letting in a lot too, the goals become less valuable. To win the game you have to outscore the opponent, and Marner constantly does, Nylander doesn't.

If you think being scored on doesn't matter, I guess there isn't much to talk about.

They all choked, Willie is just the tallest of the Hobbit.
I think you are over emphasizing MM defence and at the same time doing the same to Willie’s defence.
It’s funny how you and others defend MM’s lack of scoring as being the playmaker and if only others score on his passes…. But when it comes to Willie and his defence stats, you don’t use the same logic, like if Willie’s linemates played better defence and not daydream and let opposing player skate by them like the Pasta goal in OT, maybe his defence stats will be better.
It works both ways but I have yet to see you and others say the same about Willie.
Also, I don’t understand why you guys need to pull Willie down in order to make MM looks better? MM was horrible the last two series. And Rey said it best regarding his Game 7, he is either injured or uninterested. Since there is not report of him being injured, why was he uninterested in Game 7? That’s unacceptable.
The fact that MM choked under pressure should not be news. MM was thinking about his 100mil extension after Willie’s contract and choked even more than he ever did in the playoffs. That’s why I don’t think his camp will bet on MM coming around next playoffs. The smart thing is to get traded to a non playoff team, get regular season stats and by All Star Game, he will have his 100mil extension. Something that won’t happen in Toronto, as the contract will only come after the playoffs.

 

[Confucius]

Marner career playoffs plus 10, Mathews plus 2, William plus 1, JT minus 9.

Marner is the best we have anyway.