Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Gary Nylund]

This message board should be talking leafs and sharing opinions. The fact that half of some people's posts are gradeschool level insults is the problem not that some people lean towards supporting team decisions and some people lean towards trashing team decisions and a lot more people lean towards supporting or rejecting team decisions on an individual basis.

Yep, opinions are fine it's the idiocy used by some (most of which have nothing to do with the play on the ice) to arrive at their opinion that's the issue.

How people arrive at their opinions isn't the issue, what pollutes this board are the gradeshool level insults as the post you responded to pointed out and you constantly calling people idiots is a case in point.

 

[Gabriel426]

Honestly, let’s say any other team in the league been through what the Leafs been through the last 8 years.

Ask yourself how you would view that team? Like would you say they just had bad luck or their top guys are just chokers? Would you think they are on the right path by sticking with their top guys and not trying to facilitate a trade?

 

[Trapper]

Honestly, let’s say any other team in the league been through what the Leafs been through the last 8 years.

Ask yourself how you would view that team? Like would you say they just had bad luck or their top guys are just chokers? Would you think they are on the right path by sticking with their top guys and not trying to facilitate a trade?

This board would laugh at them and call them chokers.
In fact I wouldn’t want that team to change anything. It would be too funny to watch them lose again. If it was a team like Montreal, I’d want them to be to good to draft anyone decent but bad enough to go nowhere and spin their wheels.

 

[Confucius]

I'm not the biggest marner fan, but I think we can all agree he is a very good forward.
Too bad he couldn't play center, might have been their next Keon.
Do we know why his production this year was so poor in the post season?

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Could it be sample size? If we just use 7 games as a sample size anybody could look terrible and anybody could look great.

 

[Gabriel426]

Could it be sample size? If we just use 7 games as a sample size anybody could look terrible and anybody could look great.

If Marner plays on another team and have the same stats and same team results.
Would you think he is still a great player and it is just sample size or he is a choker and can’t perform in playoffs.

 

[Confucius]

So 3 years is a good enough sample size but 8 is not. Time to move on. The party is over.

Well we can go back too far. Let’s see JT’s numbers from 8 years ago, do you think they are relevant on his next deal?

 

[Drytoast]

We are likely looking at another season with Marner

 

[Canucks LB]

As an outside perspective.

We are literally at the very beginning of the Marner offseason trade conversation, the agent saying he wants to play out the year is just literally the start of an extremely complex back-and-forth between Toronto and the player.

While Marner has majority of the cards, let’s not kid ourselves here, the temperature by the fan base is going to increase at such an astronomical level, that everywhere he goes, regardless, if it’s right or wrong, he is going to get so much backlash for trying to stay, it’s Going to be a spectacle.

This situation has barely started, right now I think we’re still in posturing mode, but the moment July 2nd comes, and he is a maple leaf, the backlash is going to skyrocket.

And if he’s here during training camp, no matter what he says, the moment and I mean the moment he has a bad game or a bad week, these fans in the building will turn on him, regardless, if it’s fair or not.

Marner has to be traded, the pressure needs to be put on, this is your only shot, it’s going to get way way worse from here.

My two cents

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

How people arrive at their opinions isn't the issue, what pollutes this board are the gradeshool level insults as the post you responded to pointed out and you constantly calling people idiots is a case in point.

It's easier to take pot shots at people and not elaborate

 

[socko]

If Marner plays on another team and have the same stats and same team results.
Would you think he is still a great player and it is just sample size or he is a choker and can’t perform in playoffs.

I think we can all see why Marner doesn't achieve in the playoffs. He stays out on the perimeter. He wants to make fancy passes. He doesn't play even the slightest physical. He won't even block shots like he did early in his career. He throws weak floater shots from the perimeter and hopes they somehow create a goal. Even when he had an empty net this year, he stayed on the perimeter because he didn't want to receive contact. I mean it's pretty obvious when you watch the games why he doesn't perform in the playoffs.

 

[Confucius]

If Marner plays on another team and have the same stats and same team results.
Would you think he is still a great player and it is just sample size or he is a choker and can’t perform in playoffs.

I think he is worth 11 million per year. Where that puts him on the greatness scale, I don’t know maybe top 20 player in the league.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's easier to take pot shots at people and not elaborate

He keeps insulting people without saying who they are, or why he's being so insulting. Surprising to see such cowardice on the internet of all places.

 

[Trapper]

I think he is worth 11 million per year. Where that puts him on the greatness scale, I don’t know maybe top 20 player in the league.

Well that really brings us back to the start of the Marner saga.

He already makes 11 million, I wouldn’t give him anymore and since we already have a winger signed to 11.5 million, that leaves him the odd man out. We need a different core piece or a solid 2C + D in a trade return.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think he is worth 11 million per year. Where that puts him on the greatness scale, I don’t know maybe top 20 player in the league.

You didn’t answer my question which pretty much showed where you stand.

 

[notbias]

We'd actually be able to sign Klingberg x 2 , Samsonov x 2 , Bertuzzi x 2 , Domi x 2 , Reaves x 2, and Kampf x 2.

You ignored that those caphits were previously on the team with Marner and Tavares' $22 million so you still have an additional $24 million to spend on players.

If Marner walks, the Leafs will be very active UFA shoppers in the next couple years whether they want to or not.

Using only Marner's and Tavares' money, you can sign 1 of each of those players.

Regardless, my point is, that if the cap is spent well, great, the team improves.

We just had an example last year of the cap being spent poorly (not the first time, not singling out Treliving), I don't know if the team is better with all those players or Marner and Tavares.

People are excited about cap space, and I just think tons of cap space and filling it with UFAs is always risky.

We will see how it goes, but Tavares (and Panarin to a lesser extent) is an example of a player who was a huge signing in free agency who fell short. I can see this happening if there is a lot of cap space for us and a need to fill the holes left by Tavares and Marner.

Honestly, let’s say any other team in the league been through what the Leafs been through the last 8 years.

Ask yourself how you would view that team? Like would you say they just had bad luck or their top guys are just chokers? Would you think they are on the right path by sticking with their top guys and not trying to facilitate a trade?

Buffalo and Ottawa are in worse shape and people keep picking them as teams to look out for...

I think the Leafs deserve the criticism and any jokes about them at this point, but they get extra because they are the Leafs.

 

[ACC1224]

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We are likely looking at another season with Marner

I don't think that changes anything. IMO, anything can happen with this team over the summer and we won't have a clearer picture until Camp opens.

 

[Racer88]

View attachment 879721
We are likely looking at another season with Marner

Then how about he makes a trade that actually makes the team better because as we all know the status quo with this core structure is not getting it done

 

[ULF_55]

They are all good players ULF. I don’t think anyone who wants player X traded has says they are bad. As a playoff core, they are bad. As a group of contracts on one team with multiple holes elsewhere they are bad.

As for the stat sheet, how are the point totals for the 4 in games 5,6 and 7 of the playoffs. Also for point totals, how many of their points came in relation to a 7-3 game where everyone got 4 points. Then nobody got any?

Nylander wasn't in the 7-3 win, so none of his came from that one.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Using only Marner's and Tavares' money, you can sign 1 of each of those players.

Regardless, my point is, that if the cap is spent well, great, the team improves.

We just had an example last year of the cap being spent poorly (not the first time, not singling out Treliving), I don't know if the team is better with all those players or Marner and Tavares.

People are excited about cap space, and I just think tons of cap space and filling it with UFAs is always risky.

We will see how it goes, but Tavares (and Panarin to a lesser extent) is an example of a player who was a huge signing in free agency who fell short. I can see this happening if there is a lot of cap space for us and a need to fill the holes left by Tavares and Marner.

Buffalo and Ottawa are in worse shape and people keep picking them as teams to look out for...

You keep saying this but every decision comes with risk so this doesn't really mean anything. Unless you think bending over for Marner comes with no risk attached?

 

[Zybalto]

Honestly, let’s say any other team in the league been through what the Leafs been through the last 8 years.

Ask yourself how you would view that team? Like would you say they just had bad luck or their top guys are just chokers? Would you think they are on the right path by sticking with their top guys and not trying to facilitate a trade?

When they were young, you could brush it off.

My big problem is that I've been screaming from the hilltops that Campbell and Samsonov would cost us. Would any team have performed with those guys in net? This isnt the Rangers. They arnt wondering what to do with a Shesterkin in net. They are actually asking what to do with a guy like Panarin who is an offensive disappointment and defensive sieve.

I've been waiting for a playoff goalie for years now. No sane person would ever say about this team: "man, despite their goalies play, they lost"....but doesnt every hockey fan say "you need good goaltending to win in the playoffs!"

I guess we saw a bit of it with Woll. I mean, over the last 3 years:

With Woll:

.933 save % + undefeated

Without Woll:

.897 save% (Both Campbell and Samsonov had the same here)

Sub .900 save% isnt gonna cut it from a playoff starter on any team. They would have sunk any time. Im pretty confident of that. It's why all the rest of this is white noise to me. One has been pulled from his last 2 series and both have been pulled from the league this year (one it looks for forever)

I suppose the Oilers with Skinner (.and his .897 save%) may be proving this wrong but they are also an amazing healthy team in a weaker conference. (would they win a thing with just one of Drai or McDavid injured?) My heart actually wants them to win to see McDavid get a chance at a ring but my head says Florida because they are strong everywhere.

 

[notbias]

You keep saying this but every decision comes with risk so this doesn't really mean anything. Unless you think bending over for Marner comes with no risk attached?

There are different levels of risk... I want to try to avoid the Huberdeau level.

 

[JKG33]

Honestly, let’s say any other team in the league been through what the Leafs been through the last 8 years.

Ask yourself how you would view that team? Like would you say they just had bad luck or their top guys are just chokers? Would you think they are on the right path by sticking with their top guys and not trying to facilitate a trade?

The thing is, most teams would've made changes after this much failure. Look at Florida. They were a shit team for years when they first drafted Ekblad, Barkov, Huberdeau. But a lot of that was due to bad management. They bring in a new group, have a couple great regular seasons, after 2 years realize the group doesn't have "it" and made some major changes.

But to answer your question, I'd be dunking on them every chance I get. I loved hating on the Sharks but this Leafs team is so bad they wish they had the Sharks "success"

 

[Gabriel426]

Using only Marner's and Tavares' money, you can sign 1 of each of those players.

Regardless, my point is, that if the cap is spent well, great, the team improves.

We just had an example last year of the cap being spent poorly (not the first time, not singling out Treliving), I don't know if the team is better with all those players or Marner and Tavares.

People are excited about cap space, and I just think tons of cap space and filling it with UFAs is always risky.

We will see how it goes, but Tavares (and Panarin to a lesser extent) is an example of a player who was a huge signing in free agency who fell short. I can see this happening if there is a lot of cap space for us and a need to fill the holes left by Tavares and Marner.



Buffalo and Ottawa are in worse shape and people keep picking them as teams to look out for...

I think the Leafs deserve the criticism and any jokes about them at this point, but they get extra because they are the Leafs.

But Sabres and Sens never made the playoffs 8 yrs in a row or have three and soon to be four 11mil plus players on their payroll.

 

[ToneDog]

Well we can go back too far. Let’s see JT’s numbers from 8 years ago, do you think they are relevant on his next deal?

Yeah, lets compare a guy who is close to the end to one that is in his prime. Either way this core has proven they cannot get it done. Time to do in a different direction. We are not here to sell jerseys.

 

[Gary Nylund]

nd

There are different levels of risk... I want to try to avoid the Huberdeau level.

You should worry more about avoiding the Marner deal.