Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[francis246]

It's more likely he'll fall on his face than fall in line.

Did Marner get with your wife or something? Why is everything around him so personal for you lol?

I understand thinking he’s a shit player not wanting him on the team, don’t have to like him at all, but man, you take it to another level every chance you get lol

 

[rumman]

I don’t know either. But getting 2 on board is easier than 4.

Nylander has his issues as well but at least he’s shown some ability to score goals against a team like Boston in the playoffs.
So right there (and the fact that he’s signed) wins over Marner. You can get a goal without an assist, but you can’t get an assist without a goal.

We don’t need 23/24 million in 2 wingers that are inconsistent with the playoff style of hockey. Pick one.

Then get a good C behind Matthews with intensity and hope the new additions and style bring out a different accountability in the 2.

There’s a reason Tavares has won nothing, we need anyone on the team able to hold anyone accountable. Not the alpha core dictating the style.

There’s no reason 34 and 88 can’t be dominating forces in both the playoffs and regular season, they have the talent, they just don’t have the mental fortitude to make it happen, they must be happy with only being regular reason stars and getting a early start to the offseason…….

 

[ACC1224]

There’s already been multiple videos that have debunked it and prominent guys have walked their comments back (Jay Rosehill most notably after going on a tirade without all the facts) now that the real story has come out lol. All you have to do as well is watch the video before.

Matthews wanted a set play off the faceoff, Nylander took the puck and did something else and he was pissed that they didn’t do the set play. Nylander was telling Matthews to stop crying. Pretty straight forward. Why do you think that story died so fast? If it was really Marner who was getting bitched out mainstream media would still be carrying that story to this day at nausea.

It’s more fun to make up stuff about Marner though. Thread is full of many imagined takes, pretty silly

 

[Al14]

So basically you're saying Marner cares about money, and doesn't care about winning. If that's true, than he's a complete disgrace as a human being as far as I'm concerned and there's nothing any coach can do about that. If he's not going to put out 100% effort after getting paid then he took the money under false pretenses and deserves to be sued for breach of contract. Yes I know that can't happen, I'm just saying that he would deserve it if what you're saying is true.

I'm reminded of what Bobby Orr said - he has no problem with players getting the obscene amounts of money they're getting, but he does have a problem with the guys that get paid a fortune, and don't give 100% effort afterwards. He says that when you take the money, you owe it to everyone to give 100% at all times. And needless to say, since that's basically what I said earlier I agree 100%.

That's exactly why GUARANTEED CONTRACTS are one of the major problems.

I'm really sick and tired of players, like Marner, taking more money than they're really worth and then disappearing when their teams, and especially their fans, need them to show up the most.

The NHL needs to get rid of guaranteed contracts as well as the no trade, no movement clauses. Sure, maybe the players should have some say as to where they are employed, so lets give them a 10-12 team no trade clause instead. Also have them provide the list annually.

Also, the players should have more right to determine where they want to play when entering the NHL. The draft should be modified to give the players some power. Maybe have each draft eligible player provide a list of destination teams. A draft player / team draft match up process.

JMHO.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I like Reinhart but I really think we need defense, Marner’s money has to be allocated to defense and goaltending. Sign a guy like Perron or even Toffoli, we need more goal scorers!!

We keep signing old guys once they are over the hill. Perron is 36.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Did Marner get with your wife or something? Why is everything around him so personal for you lol?

I understand thinking he’s a shit player not wanting him on the team, don’t have to like him at all, but man, you take it to another level every chance you get lol

Where did I say anything personal about Marner? I just stated my opinion, which is as valid as yours. Now about that "projection" of yours....

 

[ACC1224]

That's exactly why GUARANTEED CONTRACTS are the problem.

I'm really sick and tired of players, like Marner, taking more money than they're really worth and then disappearing when their teams, and especially their fans, need them to show up the most.

The NHL needs to get rid of guaranteed contracts as well as the no trade, no movement clauses. Sure, maybe the players should have some say as to where they are employed, so lets give them a 10-12 team no trade clause instead. Also make them provide the list annually.

Also, the players should have more right to determine where they want to play when entering the NHL. The draft should be modified to give the players some power. Maybe have each draft eligible player provide a list of destination teams. A draft player / team draft match up process.

JMHO.

He didn’t take money it was given to him.

 

[rumman]

That's exactly why GUARANTEED CONTRACTS are one of the major problem.

I'm really sick and tired of players, like Marner, taking more money than they're really worth and then disappearing when their teams, and especially their fans, need them to show up the most.

The NHL needs to get rid of guaranteed contracts as well as the no trade, no movement clauses. Sure, maybe the players should have some say as to where they are employed, so lets give them a 10-12 team no trade clause instead. Also have them provide the list annually.

Also, the players should have more right to determine where they want to play when entering the NHL. The draft should be modified to give the players some power. Maybe have each draft eligible player provide a list of destination teams. A draft player / team draft match up process.

JMHO.

I completely agree, the great Johnny Bucyk used to only sign one year deals, when asked why he did that he said “it keeps me honest.” They don’t make them like that anymore……….

 

[Al14]

He didn’t take money it was given to him.

So, you don't think his dad and his agent had anything to do with it at all?

 

[francis246]

Where did I say anything personal about Marner? I just stated my opinion, which is as valid as yours. Now about that "projection" of yours....

Every post of yours is pushing an anti Mitch agenda which is fine that is your right. But it’s usually accompanied by a personal dig at him which I find a tad bit weird.

We get it you want him gone, so does a majority of the board.

So, you don't think his dad and his agent had anything to do with it at all?

Ofc they did but the team presented him with the offer. He accepted. The two sides have to agree. Mitch being overpaid is as much Mitch’s fault as is it is managements. They were not forced to agree to 10.93. They wanted to sign him to that.

 

[ACC1224]

So, you don't think his dad and his agent had anything to do with it at all?

Yes Agents negotiate players contracts.

 

[ToneDog]

There’s already been multiple videos that have debunked it and prominent guys have walked their comments back (Jay Rosehill most notably after going on a tirade without all the facts) now that the real story has come out lol. All you have to do as well is watch the video before.

Matthews wanted a set play off the faceoff, Nylander took the puck and did something else and he was pissed that they didn’t do the set play. Nylander was telling Matthews to stop crying. Pretty straight forward. Why do you think that story died so fast? If it was really Marner who was getting bitched out mainstream media would still be carrying that story to this day at nausea.

So Marner threw a hissy fit because Matty bitched at him. Sounds like he is a total weakling and why he needs to be the first of the core to go. The rest can follow one by one if they do not walk the walk.

Lifetime contract for that comment

Whenever he floats and deserves criticism, I will remind myself of "stop crying bro, this is not juniors". LOL.

 

[notdoneyet]

So, you don't think his dad and his agent had anything to do with it at all?

You don’t think nylander dad had anything to do with his hold out on his first contract and now on his new one.

 

[francis246]

So Marner threw a hissy fit because Matty bitched at him. Sounds like he is a total weakling and why he needs to be the first of the core to go. The rest can follow one by one if they do not walk the walk.


Whenever he floats and deserves criticism, I will remind myself of "stop crying bro, this is not juniors". LOL.

And Nylander did not say stop crying, this not juniors. Again many professional lip readers have posted videos debunking this!

He said, “stop crying, that’s the f***ing issue, guys always yelling about shit” nothing about juniors

 

[BraveCanadian]

There’s already been multiple videos that have debunked it and prominent guys have walked their comments back (Jay Rosehill most notably after going on a tirade without all the facts) now that the real story has come out lol. All you have to do as well is watch the video before.

Matthews wanted a set play off the faceoff, Nylander took the puck and did something else and he was pissed that they didn’t do the set play. Nylander was telling Matthews to stop crying. Pretty straight forward. Why do you think that story died so fast? If it was really Marner who was getting bitched out mainstream media would still be carrying that story to this day at nausea.

People just see what they want to see but you're right. Like Matthews and Nylander weren't even looking at Marner.. but that would get in the way of the Marner hate-on going on here.

 

[Zybalto]

Been having fun getting out and watching the odd game so far this summer and it's been great seeing actual playoff goalies out there battling for other teams. Was really pulling for the Rangers as Shesterkin deserves far better and would be great to see a guy like that on our team. The Leafs are certainly a better team in front of the goalie. I mean, just look at the contrast.

Marner and Rielly vs Trouba and Panarin over the last 3 playoff runs (and ranking among all players with 20+ playoff games over this stretch):

Marner:
Points per game: 12th among forwards (82 point season pace)
+/-: +11 ( +36 season pace)

Panarin:
Points per game: 31st among forwards (63 point season pace)
+/-: -9 ( -18 season pace)

Rielly:
Points per game: 5th among dmen (69 point season pace)
+/-: +13 ( +43 season pace)

Trouba:
Points per game: 33rd among dmen (21 point season pace)
+/-: 0 ( -2 season pace)

Panarin and Trouba are everything much of the braindead crowd think Marner and Rielly are. I still cant believe so many in the fanbase and media can say "goaltending is key in the playoffs!" and then refuse to put 99% of the blame on the fact we've ran Campbell and Samsonov as our starters the last 4 years against Price, Bob, Vasy and Swayman.

I think thats what makes things so odd. It would make even a little more sense to me if Marner and Rielly were even slightly net negatives but the fact that Rielly is clearly a top 10 playoff dman the last 3 years and that when taking into account Marner is a crazy QoC matchup guy with elite defensive numbers and still puts up those stats (confidently a top 10 winger) and it makes me lose my mind a little bit.....and no, I dont care about trying to massage stats to try and make them look bad. Their stats are too good overall, and against some of the best teams and goalies of our generation.

The Leafs have been a top 10 regular season team the last 4 years. Can you guys name even 1 playoff goalie from the other 36 top ten teams worse than the guys we've trotted out 4 years in a row? A guy so bad he got exposed the minute he left the team nd is out of the league (I think he just may have been getting carried hard here) and then another guy who was also booted from the league for sucking so hard and has been pulled from the last 2 series he started for crapping the bed. Meanwhile, the only other goalie we've tried, an inury prone rookie, has gone 3-0 with a .930+ on the same team in the playoffs.....



Never in the history of the board has so much time been wasted shouting at clouds. It's just so obvious...

Get this team a starting goalie.....and then the same guys with the same stats will all of a sudden be heroes because they will be winning.

 

[ToneDog]

Rangers fans echoing similar sentiments that have been posted by @Trapper and a few others.

It's also a real shame that Panarin was so ineffective for such long periods. I'd happily take an 80-point regular season guy who can actually play his game in the post season over him at this point.

People just see what they want to see but you're right. Like Matthews and Nylander weren't even looking at Marner.. but that would get in the way of the Marner hate-on going on here.

Yeah Marner threw a hissy fit for no reason. LOL. They were clearly talking to him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Probably because he is one

Yeah this could well be one of those times where Occam's provides the answer.

Why is that true for other players and not him? Ryan O’Reilly for example was traded twice before landing in STL and figuring it out.

Kessel, we were told you could never win with a guy like Kessel, went on to Pittsburgh and figured it out with the right group. Same with Kadri, Marion Hossa, same with Eichel, same with a shit ton of other guys who have moved on and changed/evolved their game in new places.

I don’t get how it’s a silly notion. You can learn to play the right way and especially in an organization that’s big on accountability and holding their players to a high standard it’s possible.

In Kessel's case, people weren't saying you can't win with him, they were saying that you can't win with him as your best player and not everyone bought into that theory anyway. Kadri was fantastic while he was here so not sure why you're bring him up at all. He had trouble controlling his emotions at a couple of bad moments but he always played his ass off for us.

Has anything he’s done showed you that money isn’t a big thing for him? I don’t get why that’s coming as a surprise lol. If there’s anything that’s true about the core is they want to make as much money as possible.

The only way I see them changing is going to an organization where that is literally whipped out of them. I think here in Toronto they have embraced that culture and let the players act, think and go about their business in that way. I don’t think that would fly other places. Which is why I think if he goes to a team where that isn’t a part of the culture he probably falls in line and plays well.

I never said that it wasn't or it wasn't so I have no idea what you're going on about now.

As far as wanting to make money that's fine, the point is what after you've gotten your contract you should go out and do your best to earn that money. Read what I said about Bobby Orr, did you not understand what he said or do you not agree with what he said or what? If you sign a contract for big money, and then go play your heart out night after night it's not like they take the money back from you.

I don’t know either. But getting 2 on board is easier than 4.

Nylander has his issues as well but at least he’s shown some ability to score goals against a team like Boston in the playoffs.
So right there (and the fact that he’s signed) wins over Marner. You can get a goal without an assist, but you can’t get an assist without a goal.

We don’t need 23/24 million in 2 wingers that are inconsistent with the playoff style of hockey. Pick one.

Then get a good C behind Matthews with intensity and hope the new additions and style bring out a different accountability in the 2.

There’s a reason Tavares has won nothing, we need anyone on the team able to hold anyone accountable. Not the alpha core dictating the style.

Makes sense to me.

That's exactly why GUARANTEED CONTRACTS are one of the major problems.

I'm really sick and tired of players, like Marner, taking more money than they're really worth and then disappearing when their teams, and especially their fans, need them to show up the most.

The NHL needs to get rid of guaranteed contracts as well as the no trade, no movement clauses. Sure, maybe the players should have some say as to where they are employed, so lets give them a 10-12 team no trade clause instead. Also have them provide the list annually.

Also, the players should have more right to determine where they want to play when entering the NHL. The draft should be modified to give the players some power. Maybe have each draft eligible player provide a list of destination teams. A draft player / team draft match up process.

JMHO.

I couldn't agree more.

Never in the history of the board has so much time been wasted shouting at clouds. It's just so obvious...

Get this team a starting goalie.....and then the same guys with the same stats will all of a sudden be heroes because they will be winning.

Yup. All we need is a starting goalie who can make saves with the best of them, and then score some goals as well. Not sure how you keep thinking a new goalie solves all our problems when we can't score goals.

 

[Zybalto]

Yup. All we need is a starting goalie who can make saves with the best of them, and then score some goals as well. Not sure how you keep thinking a new goalie solves all our problems when we can't score goals.

Both Matthews and Willy getting hurt certainly didnt help things but you are still avoiding the question. Name the goalies.....

...and Skinner is far better than both Campbell and Samsonov. The Leafs are a better defensive team than the Oilers (and that showed when Skinner beat out "huge FA signing Campbell" in record time for the starting job in Edm.)

Meanwhile, its tough to score against the great goaltending we've come up against yea but why attack a PPG guy who's had crappy finishing on his passing?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794524323614687349

Stop yelling at clouds bro and get the real pressure on the team to get a goalie.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Both Matthews and Willy getting hurt certainly didnt help things but you are still avoiding the question. Name the goalies.....

...and Skinner is far better than both Campbell and Samsonov. The Leafs are a better defensive team than the Oilers (and that showed when Skinner beat out "huge FA signing Campbell" in record time for the starting job in Edm.)

Meanwhile, its tough to score against the great goaltending we've come up against yea but why attack a PPG guy who's had crappy finishing on his passing?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794524323614687349

Stop yelling at clouds bro and get the real pressure on the team to get a goalie.

You're the one yelling at clouds bro. I've watched every playoff game Marner's played for us, and almost every regular season game. He's been mostly bad in the playoffs for a while now, I don't need any statistics to tell me that and if you find statistics that say otherwise then your statistics are worthless.

We seem to specialize in making goalies look good. And LOL at "crappy finishing", maybe go re-watch the playoffs (if you have the stomach for it) and look for all those grade A scoring chances Marner created that weren't finished. Maybe when have trouble finding them it will dawn on you that things didn't quite go down the way you think.

 

[Notsince67]

Why do you post like such a condescending &$%#^&%&^ so often?

A. Here is 1 answer and 1 comment.
There are a lot of ignorant dicks on this forum.
I can say that as a person outside of this crowd.
B. You however have zero self awareness.

 

[francis246]

Rangers fans echoing similar sentiments that have been posted by @Trapper and a few others.

It's also a real shame that Panarin was so ineffective for such long periods. I'd happily take an 80-point regular season guy who can actually play his game in the post season over him at this point.


Yeah Marner threw a hissy fir for no reason. LOL. They were clearly talking to him.

He threw his gloves in general frustration because nothing was working IMO.

I also think it’s because he knew this was probably the end of the line for this group together but neither guy was looking at Marner or talking to Marner. Like I said if it was truly about Marner, people connected to the organization would have verified that through the media, instead we heard the opposite.

 

[ToneDog]

Been having fun getting out and watching the odd game so far this summer and it's been great seeing actual playoff goalies out there battling for other teams. Was really pulling for the Rangers as Shesterkin deserves far better and would be great to see a guy like that on our team. The Leafs are certainly a better team in front of the goalie. I mean, just look at the contrast.

Marner and Rielly vs Trouba and Panarin over the last 3 playoff runs (and ranking among all players with 20+ playoff games over this stretch):

Marner:
Points per game: 12th among forwards (82 point season pace)
+/-: +11 ( +36 season pace)

Panarin:
Points per game: 31st among forwards (63 point season pace)
+/-: -9 ( -18 season pace)

Rielly:
Points per game: 5th among dmen (69 point season pace)
+/-: +13 ( +43 season pace)

Trouba:
Points per game: 33rd among dmen (21 point season pace)
+/-: 0 ( -2 season pace)

Panarin and Trouba are everything much of the braindead crowd think Marner and Rielly are. I still cant believe so many in the fanbase and media can say "goaltending is key in the playoffs!" and then refuse to put 99% of the blame on the fact we've ran Campbell and Samsonov as our starters the last 4 years against Price, Bob, Vasy and Swayman.

I think thats what makes things so odd. It would make even a little more sense to me if Marner and Rielly were even slightly net negatives but the fact that Rielly is clearly a top 10 playoff dman the last 3 years and that when taking into account Marner is a crazy QoC matchup guy with elite defensive numbers and still puts up those stats (confidently a top 10 winger) and it makes me lose my mind a little bit.....and no, I dont care about trying to massage stats to try and make them look bad. Their stats are too good overall, and against some of the best teams and goalies of our generation.

The Leafs have been a top 10 regular season team the last 4 years. Can you guys name even 1 playoff goalie from the other 36 top ten teams worse than the guys we've trotted out 4 years in a row? A guy so bad he got exposed the minute he left the team nd is out of the league (I think he just may have been getting carried hard here) and then another guy who was also booted from the league for sucking so hard and has been pulled from the last 2 series he started for crapping the bed. Meanwhile, the only other goalie we've tried, an inury prone rookie, has gone 3-0 with a .930+ on the same team in the playoffs.....



Never in the history of the board has so much time been wasted shouting at clouds. It's just so obvious...

Get this team a starting goalie.....and then the same guys with the same stats will all of a sudden be heroes because they will be winning.

Agreed we need a top goalie but how can you blame a guy who gives up one goal in regulation in game #7 when you have half your cap invested in 4 forwards? This team virtually needs a SO to win a game #7.

 

[Confucius]

There’s no reason 34 and 88 can’t be dominating forces in both the playoffs and regular season, they have the talent, they just don’t have the mental fortitude to make it happen, they must be happy with only being regular reason stars and getting a early start to the offseason…….

If they play the same way and have the same game plan as the regular season they should be fine. If they try and change their style because it’s the playoffs and they are supposedly different they will continue to lose.

 

[GoonieFace]

Both Matthews and Willy getting hurt certainly didnt help things but you are still avoiding the question. Name the goalies.....

...and Skinner is far better than both Campbell and Samsonov. The Leafs are a better defensive team than the Oilers (and that showed when Skinner beat out "huge FA signing Campbell" in record time for the starting job in Edm.)

Meanwhile, its tough to score against the great goaltending we've come up against yea but why attack a PPG guy who's had crappy finishing on his passing?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794524323614687349

Stop yelling at clouds bro and get the real pressure on the team to get a goalie.

That’s great. Now the real stat that matters. 3 points in 7 games. 1 useless goal when the game was over and a shovel pass assist to the point.

Im guessing lots of teams will start to venture away from analytics, and this is a perfect example why.