Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I think it’s because Keefe had a comfortability and trust with Willy. He coached him the longest and I think keefe knew Willy wouldn’t take it personally. Maybe the other two have demonstrated they would take it personally? Thats my only guess.

Yeah that's not good for two 27 year Olds. Very immature attitudes, I find it likely they wouldn't take it well.

I also feel that one of the core 4 should play the 3rd line. It's no insult, a sick 3rd line can be a major factor in winning a cup. We need to ice a team where everyone feels important.

Willy, while having the season of his life was fine with the assignment on the 3rd line. I don't think Marner would take that without feeling insulted. I don't think he was willing to even move places on the powerplay.

These attitudes are poor and not "A" material.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

1.16 PPG in regular season and 0.685 PPG in the playoffs. He does have 21 goals in 73 playoff games. Clearly melted when the heat was turned up vs Florida. No idea if this was the case when he was in Chicago but the numbers do not lie. Hell neither does the eye test.

I guess The Breadman didn't deliver.

 

[francis246]

Yeah that's not good for two 27 year Olds. Very immature attitudes, I find it likely they wouldn't take it well.

I also feel that one of the core 4 should play the 3rd line. It's no insult, a sick 3rd line can be a major factor in winning a cup. We need to ice a team where everyone feels important.

Willy, while having the season of his life was fine with the assignment on the 3rd line. I don't think Marner would take that without feeling insulted. I don't think he was willing to even move places on the powerplay.

These attitudes are poor and not "A" material.

Ryan O’Reilly leaving told me everything I needed to know about this core and what he thought about Sheldon. Everything is catered to them and I don’t think he felt Sheldon had the ability or want to change things.

Personally I think O’Reilly thought the Tavares - O’Reilly - Marner line would get another shot and it never did, instead O’Reilly for demoted to the third line . I think he also looked at it like, he was never going to get top PP time because the top guys have zero interest in creating two balanced units, neither does Keefe. It’s sad that we’ve gotten to this point, who would have thought back in 2017/18 we’d be here almost 7/8 years later.

 

[ToneDog]

Mitch needs to go to a team with no state tax. He can sign for less and take home more. Nobody is paying him $100m or making him the highest paid player on the team unless the Leafs retain $2-3 m per year IMO and that is unlikely.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Ryan O’Reilly leaving told me everything I needed to know about this core and what he thought about Sheldon. Everything is catered to them and I don’t think he felt Sheldon had the ability or want to change things.

Personally I think O’Reilly thought the Tavares - O’Reilly - Marner line would get another shot and it never did, instead O’Reilly for demoted to the third line . I think he also looked at it like, he was never going to get top PP time because the top guys have zero interest in creating two balanced units, neither does Keefe. It’s sad that we’ve gotten to this point, who would have thought back in 2017/18 we’d be here almost 7/8 years later.

Yes exactly.

What a shame that we paid all those draft picks and he signed an excellent contract with Nashville.

I felt like it took Keefe a calendar year to realize Domi was a offensive weapon. It's like it took injuries to realize we had other good players. So disappointing. Keefe is programmed to hand over opportunities A to the core and opportunities B to whomever else regardless of who they are.

I liked the line compositions more in the playoffs but it was too late.

McCabe - Benoit was fun to see. I wonder if that turns into something moving forward.

A writer wrote an article about how the Sabres traded: Eichel, O'Reilly and Reinhart and objectively, 2 of those guys have cups and perhaps the 3rd is getting one in 2 weeks; a Marner trade could look like that and it's going to take a lot of luck to eventually win the trade

However, running it again still seems a bigger loss. I don't know what to do

 

[francis246]

Yes exactly.

What a shame that we paid all those draft picks and he signed an excellent contract with Nashville.

I felt like it took Keefe a calendar year to realize Domi was a offensive weapon. It's like it took injuries to realize we had other good players. So disappointing. Keefe is programmed to hand over opportunities A to the core and opportunities B to whomever else regardless of who they are.

I liked the line compositions more in the playoffs but it was too late.

McCabe - Benoit was fun to see. I wonder if that turns into something moving forward.

A writer wrote an article about how the Sabres traded: Eichel, O'Reilly and Reinhart and objectively, 2 of those guys have cups and perhaps the 3rd is getting one in 2 weeks; a Marner trade could look like that and it's going to take a lot of luck to eventually win the trade

However, running it again still seems a bigger loss. I don't know what to do

Coaching is that subtle art of motivating, managing and creating balance.

The bolded is the hard part. But sometimes things just don’t work out in one place and together those three players didn’t work in Buffalo. But individually with different groups they are able to find their place and work.

Also didn’t O’Reilly speak about losing motivation and passion in Buffalo and then regaining it in St. Louis with a new group lol?!

Sabres’ Ryan O’Reilly: ‘I’ve lost the love of the game multiple times’ - Buffalo Hockey Beat

BUFFALO – Years of losing has beaten down Ryan O’Reilly so much the center said he lost his love for hockey at times as the Sabres trudged to a 31st-place finish this season. “We’re stuck in this mindset of just being OK with losing,” O’Reilly said this morning inside KeyBank Center. “I feel too...

www.buffalohockeybeat.com

I assume the same is probably happening for some of the guys in Toronto and change can be good.

It’s def more likely Marner goes on an wins a cup elsewhere. Hell Toronto has its on anecdotal evidence of that. Kessel, Bozak and Kadri all went on to win cups. But that’s sports. I’ve kind of accepted the time to trade Marner to win the deal was after Montreal or even last off-season. Now, you’re moving him for the cap space and futures if you decide that.

 

[ToneDog]

Yes exactly.

What a shame that we paid all those draft picks and he signed an excellent contract with Nashville.

I felt like it took Keefe a calendar year to realize Domi was a offensive weapon. It's like it took injuries to realize we had other good players. So disappointing. Keefe is programmed to hand over opportunities A to the core and opportunities B to whomever else regardless of who they are.

I liked the line compositions more in the playoffs but it was too late.

McCabe - Benoit was fun to see. I wonder if that turns into something moving forward.

A writer wrote an article about how the Sabres traded: Eichel, O'Reilly and Reinhart and objectively, 2 of those guys have cups and perhaps the 3rd is getting one in 2 weeks; a Marner trade could look like that and it's going to take a lot of luck to eventually win the trade

However, running it again still seems a bigger loss. I don't know what to do

I am confident Tre knows what to do as long as Shanny does not mandate moves. I think it was Lawton that said come up with and plan and Tre is good at executing it. We shall see.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Coaching is that subtle art of motivating, managing and creating balance.

The bolded is the hard part. But sometimes things just don’t work out in one place and together those three players didn’t work in Buffalo. But individually with different groups they are able to find their place and work.

Also didn’t O’Reilly speak about losing motivation and passion in Buffalo and then regaining it in St. Louis with a new group lol?!

Sabres’ Ryan O’Reilly: ‘I’ve lost the love of the game multiple times’ - Buffalo Hockey Beat

BUFFALO – Years of losing has beaten down Ryan O’Reilly so much the center said he lost his love for hockey at times as the Sabres trudged to a 31st-place finish this season. “We’re stuck in this mindset of just being OK with losing,” O’Reilly said this morning inside KeyBank Center. “I feel too...

www.buffalohockeybeat.com

I assume the same is probably happening for some of the guys in Toronto and change can be good.

It’s def more likely Marner goes on an wins a cup elsewhere. Hell Toronto has its on anecdotal evidence of that. Kessel, Bozak and Kadri all went on to win cups. But that’s sports. I’ve kind of accepted the time to trade Marner to win the deal was after Montreal or even last off-season. Now, you’re moving him for the cap space and futures if you decide that.

Yeah in fantasy land I'd cash marner in to make up for all the high picks we lost then just sign Reinhart and we could have our cake and eat it too. But then reality sets in

 

[francis246]

Yeah in fantasy land I'd cash marner in to make up for all the high picks we lost then just sign Reinhart and we could have our cake and eat it too. But then reality sets in

I like Reinhart but I really think we need defense, Marner’s money has to be allocated to defense and goaltending. Sign a guy like Perron or even Toffoli, we need more goal scorers!!

 

[rumman]

Yeah that's not good for two 27 year Olds. Very immature attitudes, I find it likely they wouldn't take it well.

I also feel that one of the core 4 should play the 3rd line. It's no insult, a sick 3rd line can be a major factor in winning a cup. We need to ice a team where everyone feels important.

Willy, while having the season of his life was fine with the assignment on the 3rd line. I don't think Marner would take that without feeling insulted. I don't think he was willing to even move places on the powerplay.

These attitudes are poor and not "A" material.

JT should be on the third line imo…….

 

[myleafs]

Simply not true, intensity is something that can be easily taught and instilled. You need to find the right motivating factors, I know hating on Marner is the flavour of the month right now but Marner has played with intensity in the playoffs in his career before. His first 3 playoffs runs were excellent, something changed after Babcock left. So whether it was the mix of the group, coaching, external media pressure, who he was playing with. It’s affected his game. Remove him from this environment I think he’s fine. Toronto ain’t the place for him no more.

Agree to disagree. Marner plays small. And this notion that he needs to play somewhere else with other players and then he will find that extra gear is silly. For 11+ he should be the driver and not the passenger.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well I think one big motivating factor for Domi is he wants a long term contract and he wants to be a leaf long term. Marner has his money and knows he controls the situation of remaining a leaf.

I think they paid these guys way too much money too early. They should have brushed them. I also think the season where they brought Thornton was the worst thing they could have done for this group. It seems like Marner in particular was close to Thornton and I have me theory on what he learned from Thornton. Lastly I think Marner plays better under hard nosed coaches

So basically you're saying Marner cares about money, and doesn't care about winning. If that's true, than he's a complete disgrace as a human being as far as I'm concerned and there's nothing any coach can do about that. If he's not going to put out 100% effort after getting paid then he took the money under false pretenses and deserves to be sued for breach of contract. Yes I know that can't happen, I'm just saying that he would deserve it if what you're saying is true.

I'm reminded of what Bobby Orr said - he has no problem with players getting the obscene amounts of money they're getting, but he does have a problem with the guys that get paid a fortune, and don't give 100% effort afterwards. He says that when you take the money, you owe it to everyone to give 100% at all times. And needless to say, since that's basically what I said earlier I agree 100%.

 

[leafs in five]

It's funny how things turn out, but predictable. Twenty years ago one was probably the schoolyard bully while the other enjoyed playing hopscotch and skipping games with the girls.

you were definitely tougher and more athletically gifted than Mitch was, in any case

 

[francis246]

Agree to disagree. Marner plays small. And this notion that he needs to play somewhere else with other players and then he will find that extra gear is silly. For 11+ he should be the driver and not the passenger.

Why is that true for other players and not him? Ryan O’Reilly for example was traded twice before landing in STL and figuring it out.

Kessel, we were told you could never win with a guy like Kessel, went on to Pittsburgh and figured it out with the right group. Same with Kadri, Marion Hossa, same with Eichel, same with a shit ton of other guys who have moved on and changed/evolved their game in new places.

I don’t get how it’s a silly notion. You can learn to play the right way and especially in an organization that’s big on accountability and holding their players to a high standard it’s possible.

 

[Trapper]

Agree 100%. And when you pay someone as much money as Marner is being paid, the idea that you need worry about how to motivate him is insane.

You listen to MacKinnon when he says losing wasn’t acceptable and he’s willing to take less to keep a team that can win the Cup together.

McDavid when he says it’s Cup or Bust, accept nothing less.

What do we get? A group that thinks winning 1 round in 8 years is right there? A group that refuses to take responsibility and instead deflects how the media needs a scapegoat? They make no mention of letting a coach down they are about to get fired?

This core is out to lunch. It needs to be changed now, not later. It has no accountability. It needs a gut punch change.

 

[francis246]

So basically you're saying Marner cares about money, and doesn't care about winning. If that's true, than he's a complete disgrace as a human being as far as I'm concerned and there's nothing any coach can do about that. If he's not going to put out 100% effort after getting paid then he took the money under false pretenses and deserves to be sued for breach of contract. Yes I know that can't happen, I'm just saying that he would deserve it if what you're saying is true.

I'm reminded of what Bobby Orr said - he has no problem with players getting the obscene amounts of money they're getting, but he does have a problem with the guys that get paid a fortune, and don't give 100% effort afterwards. He says that when you take the money, you owe it to everyone to give 100% at all times. And needless to say, since that's basically what I said earlier I agree 100%.

Has anything he’s done showed you that money isn’t a big thing for him? I don’t get why that’s coming as a surprise lol. If there’s anything that’s true about the core is they want to make as much money as possible.

The only way I see them changing is going to an organization where that is literally whipped out of them. I think here in Toronto they have embraced that culture and let the players act, think and go about their business in that way. I don’t think that would fly other places. Which is why I think if he goes to a team where that isn’t a part of the culture he probably falls in line and plays well.

 

[ToneDog]

You listen to MacKinnon when he says losing wasn’t acceptable and he’s take less to keep a team that can win the Cuo together.

McDavid when he says it’s Cup or Bust, accept nothing less.

What do we get? A group that thinks winning 1 round in 8 years is right there? A group that refuses to take responsibility and instead deflects how the media needs a scapegoat? They make no mention of letting a coach down they are about to get fired?

This core is out to lunch. It needs to be changed now, not later. It has no accountability. It needs a gut punch change.

I am not sure 34 and 88 have what it takes to pull the cart in the playoffs, although both putting it to Marner gives me hope.

 

[francis246]

I am not sure 34 and 88 have what it takes to pull the cart in the playoffs, although both putting it to Marner gives me hope.

Well actually it was 34 going at 16 and 88 and 88 going back at 34. Either way it was nice to see some emotion and not just the normal blank stare.

 

[Trapper]

I am not sure 34 and 88 have what it takes to pull the cart in the playoffs, although both putting it to Marner gives me hope.

I don’t know either. But getting 2 on board is easier than 4.

Nylander has his issues as well but at least he’s shown some ability to score goals against a team like Boston in the playoffs.
So right there (and the fact that he’s signed) wins over Marner. You can get a goal without an assist, but you can’t get an assist without a goal.

We don’t need 23/24 million in 2 wingers that are inconsistent with the playoff style of hockey. Pick one.

Then get a good C behind Matthews with intensity and hope the new additions and style bring out a different accountability in the 2.

There’s a reason Tavares has won nothing, we need anyone on the team able to hold anyone accountable. Not the alpha core dictating the style.

 

[ToneDog]

Well actually it was 34 going at 16 and 88 and 88 going back at 34. Either way it was nice to see some emotion and not just the normal blank stare.

Nah 88 was definitely giving it to 16 IMO. Stop crying bro was classic.

 

[francis246]

Nah 88 was definitely giving it to 16 IMO. Stop crying bro was classic.

There’s already been multiple videos that have debunked it and prominent guys have walked their comments back (Jay Rosehill most notably after going on a tirade without all the facts) now that the real story has come out lol. All you have to do as well is watch the video before.

Matthews wanted a set play off the faceoff, Nylander took the puck and did something else and he was pissed that they didn’t do the set play. Nylander was telling Matthews to stop crying. Pretty straight forward. Why do you think that story died so fast? If it was really Marner who was getting bitched out mainstream media would still be carrying that story to this day at nausea.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Nah 88 was definitely giving it to 16 IMO. Stop crying bro was classic.

Lifetime contract for that comment

 

[rumman]

You listen to MacKinnon when he says losing wasn’t acceptable and he’s willing to take less to keep a team that can win the Cup together.

McDavid when he says it’s Cup or Bust, accept nothing less.

What do we get? A group that thinks winning 1 round in 8 years is right there? A group that refuses to take responsibility and instead deflects how the media needs a scapegoat? They make no mention of letting a coach down they are about to get fired?

This core is out to lunch. It needs to be changed now, not later. It has no accountability. It needs a gut punch change.

MacKinnon’s as good a player there is in the league and McDavid’s nickname in McJesus, but both are below the God like status of 34, 16, 88…………

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Has anything he’s done showed you that money isn’t a big thing for him? I don’t get why that’s coming as a surprise lol. If there’s anything that’s true about the core is they want to make as much money as possible.

The only way I see them changing is going to an organization where that is literally whipped out of them. I think here in Toronto they have embraced that culture and let the players act, think and go about their business in that way. I don’t think that would fly other places. Which is why I think if he goes to a team where that isn’t a part of the culture he probably falls in line and plays well.

It's more likely he'll fall on his face than fall in line.

 

[rumman]

I am not sure 34 and 88 have what it takes to pull the cart in the playoffs, although both putting it to Marner gives me hope.

I’m really hoping that trading Marner and possibly letting JT go, along with Berube being tough on the players will either be the wake up call they need or the reason they ask to be traded……..