Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Antropovsky]

I made a comment that there's a lot of stupidity in the tread (or something similar)

You hopped on about Brady Tkachuk which had nothing to do with my post.

In a post where I comment on how desperate you seem to push your agenda and how f***ing useless it is. It doesn't seem logical to investigate an older thread that doesn't really pertain to my comment. I really don't give a shit and I stand by everything I previously said.

~Pic of Marner at ~15 was a post or two above mine, no clue if it's still there, but I don't see why it would be deleted. Though it does feel a bit stalkerish

1) It seems you didn’t realize that the discussion you joined was about Tkachuk for Marner, and your comment didn’t clearly indicate sarcasm. You appeared to agree with the poster who thinks Marner is much better than Tkachuk hence that Posters "This is getting stupid" post.

2) I was genuinely surprised that you seemed to support the opinion that Marner was worth more and wanted to understand why. I can't control the behavior of the posters before me who don’t want to discuss trades and value seriously and prefer to troll. If you don’t believe me, check the thread yourself and the one I linked.

3) I haven’t made any comments about this photo of Marner at 15. I’m not sure why you included it in your post to me. Maybe you're confusing my posts with someone else’s.

4) My agenda? You seem to have missed that this topic is all over NHL media (TSN, Reddit, Twitter, etc.). It’s being discussed in this thread with or without me and previous threads (as I linked to you). I'd like to think I’m important enough that if I stopped posting, the entire topic would die, but unfortunately, I’m not.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner probably going to be like Marchand. He's at turning point in his age now.

Off his current career progress he deserve benefit of the doubt he will find a new gear like Marchand older in his career.

He's a must to keep unless you are getting McAvoy or someone back, which you won't

Did you seriously just suggest that Mitch Marner is going to turn into a Brad Marchand type?

 

[Gabriel426]

But Draisaitl sucks in the World According the HF's Garp.

Also MM is miles ahead of Drai too due to MM's defensive game and Hockey IQ that can only be rival by the Great One.

 

[Trapper]

Also MM is miles ahead of Drai too due to MM's defensive game and Hockey IQ that can only be rival by the Great One.

I’m surprised Edmonton can even get the puck from one player to another without an elite passer to do the job.
I expected to just see them kicking it forward and hoping someone got it.

 

[Gabriel426]

I’m surprised Edmonton can even get the puck from one player to another without an elite passer to do the job.
I expected to just see them kicking it forward and hoping someone got it.

Yep, I guess all the Oilers are learning their lessons on the go or actually just drive to the net with the puck and hope to get a lucky bounce here and there.

 

[francis246]

So Marner can't handle the intensity, but that's because he's not playing with the right guys? Seriously?

Yes. And if you’ve never coached or played at a high level in something you probably just won’t understand it. Talent will only take you so far. People see talented players together and just expect them to instantly work and especially with how our guys are paid, it’s a fair expectation, but sometimes as an organization you get it wrong. Leafs got it wrong. You can’t assemble a team on pure talent alone you need to make sure some of those players have crucial intangibles like leadership, high drive/ motor, ect. Whatever you deem important. Well all 3/4 lack some of those.

The leafs drafted 3 (4 if you include Rielly) extremely talented guys but together they do not have the make up to win. It sucks but it’s the way that they are. They are not able to lift each other in big moments for whatever reason and that needs to be broken up. Sometimes you need to be surrounded with the right guys for something to click mentally.

You see it in sports all the time. KD and that OKC team is a prime example of that, elite player couldn’t get it done with the core he was with. Westbrook was also elite, Harden elite, they had Ibaka who was a stud and lots of other great pieces. As a group they just never fit and worked well together in clutch moments. KD joins Golden State a team that knows how to win and he fits in perfectly and he becomes one of the most dominant player in playoff history. Ibaka joins Toronto and becomes an integral piece to winning a championship. Lots of examples of the same thing happening in hockey. I fully expect that with Marner too once moved.

 

[francis246]

I mean what are our guys being paid top in the game money for if in order to thrive and play the right way they need to play with other players on other teams who play the right way? Why not just play the right way here on the team they are on? They are what they are wherever they are.

I agree, the mix is wrong

Simply not true, intensity is something that can be easily taught and instilled. You need to find the right motivating factors, I know hating on Marner is the flavour of the month right now but Marner has played with intensity in the playoffs in his career before. His first 3 playoffs runs were excellent, something changed after Babcock left. So whether it was the mix of the group, coaching, external media pressure, who he was playing with. It’s affected his game. Remove him from this environment I think he’s fine. Toronto ain’t the place for him no more.

 

[Antropovsky]

Simply not true, intensity is something that can be easily taught and instilled. You need to find the right motivating factors, I know hating on Marner is the flavour of the month right now but Marner has played with intensity in the playoffs in his career before. His first 3 playoffs runs were excellent, something changed after Babcock left. So whether it was the mix of the group, coaching, external media pressure, who he was playing with. It’s affected his game. Remove him from this environment I think he’s fine. Toronto ain’t the place for him no more.

Easily teach intensity? Any examples?

 

[arso40]

Simply not true, intensity is something that can be easily taught and instilled. You need to find the right motivating factors, I know hating on Marner is the flavour of the month right now but Marner has played with intensity in the playoffs in his career before. His first 3 playoffs runs were excellent, something changed after Babcock left. So whether it was the mix of the group, coaching, external media pressure, who he was playing with. It’s affected his game. Remove him from this environment I think he’s fine. Toronto ain’t the place for him no more.

I agree with motivating factors but I disagree with marner ever playing with intensity that is not a word I would ever use to describe marner I wouldn't even use it for matthews and he plays way more intense

 

[leafs in five]

it might be but the alternative could be much worse

i've already lived through the 80's and then another decade of futility as well as being told endlessly on this board how Burke and Kesssel/Phaneuf were going to lead us to a cup so it could be as i said much worse

it might be a losing race against AM/MM/WN's prime but i do believe if we could build a gritty group around them they are easily good enough to win a cup

this is pretty much where I land on it

 

[Arzak]

Just as I assumed. People are weighing in on their read of the situation and the team's inclination while offering nothing about their own tactical views.

Oh yeah, leave it to you to provide tactical views on how to get rid of Mitch, pure gold you're posting, as seen below.

This is getting stupid.

Can't get his team I to playoffs, cheats on defense...


We are at a new level of stupidity

Is this what passes for hockey talk these days? Holy shit dude...sack up a bit.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Simply not true, intensity is something that can be easily taught and instilled. You need to find the right motivating factors, I know hating on Marner is the flavour of the month right now but Marner has played with intensity in the playoffs in his career before. His first 3 playoffs runs were excellent, something changed after Babcock left. So whether it was the mix of the group, coaching, external media pressure, who he was playing with. It’s affected his game. Remove him from this environment I think he’s fine. Toronto ain’t the place for him no more.

Disgrammaticals aside, at least we agree on that.

 

[francis246]

I agree with motivating factors but I disagree with marner ever playing with intensity that is not a word I would ever use to describe marner I wouldn't even use it for matthews and he plays way more intense

Marner has played with good intensity, Marner has blocked shots, played with pace. All three of Nylander, Marner and Matthews have had moments throughout their career of playing with intensity. Marner it was more noticeable in the Babcock era and also that one year against Tampa where he helped killed the 5 on 3. I don’t even think they don’t play with intensity, they just refuse to go to the middle of the ice honestly. That is the biggest difference I see between watching these games

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes. And if you’ve never coached or played at a high level in something you probably just won’t understand it. Talent will only take you so far. People see talented players together and just expect them to instantly work and especially with how our guys are paid, it’s a fair expectation, but sometimes as an organization you get it wrong. Leafs got it wrong. You can’t assemble a team on pure talent alone you need to make sure some of those players have crucial intangibles like leadership, high drive/ motor, ect. Whatever you deem important. Well all 3/4 lack some of those.

The leafs drafted 3 (4 if you include Rielly) extremely talented guys but together they do not have the make up to win. It sucks but it’s the way that they are. They are not able to lift each other in big moments for whatever reason and that needs to be broken up. Sometimes you need to be surrounded with the right guys for something to click mentally.

You see it in sports all the time. KD and that OKC team is a prime example of that, elite player couldn’t get it done with the core he was with. Westbrook was also elite, Harden elite, they had Ibaka who was a stud and lots of other great pieces. As a group they just never fit and worked well together in clutch moments. KD joins Golden State a team that knows how to win and he fits in perfectly and he becomes one of the most dominant player in playoff history. Ibaka joins Toronto and becomes an integral piece to winning a championship. Lots of examples of the same thing happening in hockey. I fully expect that with Marner too once moved.

You can point all you want to various basketball players but that doesn't change the simple fact that Marner's play for us in the playoffs has been disappointing, especially the last two series. The same goes for Marner finding success somewhere else in the future - maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't but that doesn't change what he's done (nr not done) while wearing the Maple Leaf.

Simply not true, intensity is something that can be easily taught and instilled. You need to find the right motivating factors, I know hating on Marner is the flavour of the month right now but Marner has played with intensity in the playoffs in his career before. His first 3 playoffs runs were excellent, something changed after Babcock left. So whether it was the mix of the group, coaching, external media pressure, who he was playing with. It’s affected his game. Remove him from this environment I think he’s fine. Toronto ain’t the place for him no more.

He's one of the highest paid players in the world. Maybe I'm old fashioned but IMHO, when you pay someone that much money, it's a given that he gives 100% to earn his pay and finding some way to motivate him shouldn't be part of the equation.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Panarin was given time and patience and is an all world talent. He's a great player and is 32 years old.

He wasn't effective against Florida. He made some nice plays and can generate offense that others can't, but a total nonfactor against an incredibly grindy and physical team.

These small soft finesse players are not worth bank rolling.

Incredible value in the regular season though.

 

[francis246]

You can point all you want to various basketball players but that doesn't change the simple fact that Marner's play for us in the playoffs has been disappointing, especially the last two series. The same goes for Marner finding success somewhere else in the future - maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't but that doesn't change what he's done (nr not done) while wearing the Maple Leaf.


He's one of the highest paid players in the world. Maybe I'm old fashioned but IMHO, when you pay someone that much money, it's a given that he gives 100% to earn his pay and finding some way to motivate him shouldn't be part of the equation.

I don’t think any of our guys are not trying out there, but they haven’t been willing to change their game.

Don’t think it has to do with being old fashioned, just maybe not having played at a high level at a sport and being in a room at that level. Which is why I think many people on these boards have a way off base of what actually happens in locker rooms or with agents lol, having experienced both myself.

But players always need motivation. Doesn’t matter how much money they make. You have to be able to get the best out of them. Especially in the playoffs. That’s where the role of a coach becomes important, the role of leaders on a team become important. It’s clear we don’t really have a strong leader in the room right now too. That’s why I really like the Chief hiring because he understands that and he’ll be able to challenge the group in ways that are conducive to winning. I also think Tre is going to bring in guys like Perron and others who know how to win and play under Chief.

 

[Peasy]

So Sam Reinhart is a free agent. If only there was some way we could clear some cap room to make a sales pitch.

Why would he want to leave his spot in Florida for this mess?

 

[Niagara Bill]

this is pretty much where I land on it

It's the cap. His cap value is too much. At 6.5 million very good value...at 10.9m, added to the other 4..cannot succeed

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t think any of our guys are not trying out there, but they haven’t been willing to change their game.

Don’t think it has to do with being old fashioned, just maybe not having played at a high level at a sport and being in a room at that level. Which is why I think many people on these boards have a way off base of what actually happens in locker rooms or with agents lol, having experienced both myself.

But players always need motivation. Doesn’t matter how much money they make. You have to be able to get the best out of them. Especially in the playoffs. That’s where the role of a coach becomes important, the role of leaders on a team become important. It’s clear we don’t really have a strong leader in the room right now too. That’s why I really like the Chief hiring because he understands that and he’ll be able to challenge the group in ways that are conducive to winning. I also think Tre is going to bring in guys like Perron and others who know how to win and play under Chief.

So now you're blaming it on coaching and leadership, I'm not buying it. Marner wears the "A", doesn't that imply that he should be a leader as opposed to using the "but I have nobody to follow" excuse? And last season Rielly played great for us in the playoffs, Marner did not. If Rielly was somehow, motivated to play well, what's Marner's excuse for not being motivated. Hell even Domi played better than Marner this spring, how is it that he could find the motivation to play an Marner couldn't?

 

[Peasy]

Its honestly insane that Marner will want to be the HIGHEST PAID winger in the NHL on his next deal and you got people in here saying he just needs "the right mix" of people to be successful. Hes going to be the highest paid winger in the league and HE needs help to produce? Why the f*** is he the highest paid winger in the league then? What has he done for us?

 

[Niagara Bill]

Marner has played with good intensity, Marner has blocked shots, played with pace. All three of Nylander, Marner and Matthews have had moments throughout their career of playing with intensity. Marner it was more noticeable in the Babcock era and also that one year against Tampa where he helped killed the 5 on 3. I don’t even think they don’t play with intensity, they just refuse to go to the middle of the ice honestly. That is the biggest difference I see between watching these games

He plays now as a privledged Muskoka brat. Not a hungry player. His skills are top shelf. But he has been allowed to play a soft game by Keefe, all that drop pass BS, dipsey skating, oh your so good Mitchy stuff that he cannot get out of the pattern. Guaranteed in London he would never have developed those tendancies Babs would not allow it, but Dubas and Keefe did. He had too much say. He was allowed to be soft all season, he was praised for being soft all season, he was poorly coached and handled.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Why would he want to leave his spot in Florida for this mess?

Its not the mess its some players don't want to play here. Some for tax reasons, some don't want the media hassles & prefer to be able to walk down the street without being recognized 24/7, & some love the life style of the southern states.

The old growup in Ontario etc wanting to play for the greatest franchise in hockey has faded. People recognize its all business now. No loyalty by either side. Short career means as make ss much as can. Money more important then winning in most (id guess) cases.

 

[francis246]

So now you're blaming it on coaching and leadership, I'm not buying it. Marner wears the "A", doesn't that imply that he should be a leader as opposed to using the "but I have nobody to follow" excuse? And last season Rielly played great for us in the playoffs, Marner did not. If Rielly was somehow, motivated to play well, what's Marner's excuse for not being motivated. Hell even Domi played better than Marner this spring, how is it that he could find the motivation to play an Marner couldn't?

I’m not blaming anything, I’m simply stating a fact. I’ve never encountered anyone who loves to find the negative in every post instead of just reading it for what it is. Rielly played like complete DOG shit this playoffs. Domi had 1 more assist than Marner and wasn’t much better. So I don’t even know why you’re bringing those two into the conversation.

You need multiple things to happen within a locker room to win. I know this from personal experience and others seem to understand that, why can’t you? Right now the leafs don’t have those things. It’s not about one individual player. There’s multiple things wrong.

 

[Peasy]

Its not the mess its some players don't want to play here. Some for tax reasons, some don't want the media hassles & prefer to be able to walk down the street without being recognized 24/7, & some love the life style of the southern states.

The old growup in Ontario etc wanting to play for the greatest franchise in hockey has faded. People recognize its all business now. No loyalty by either side. Short career means as make ss much as can. Money more important then winning in most (id guess) cases.

Okay but again, why would he want to leave living in Florida, and being on a team that has made it to the finals in b2b years to come here? Do people not try and think about the other perspective? Hes not even an Ontario kid.

 

[francis246]

He plays now as a privledged Muskoka brat. Not a hungry player. His skills are top shelf. But he has been allowed to play a soft game by Keefe, all that drop pass BS, dipsey skating, oh your so good Mitchy stuff that he cannot get out of the pattern. Guaranteed in London he would never have developed those tendancies Babs would not allow it, but Dubas and Keefe did. He had too much say. He was allowed to be soft all season, he was praised for being soft all season, he was poorly coached and handled.

Exactly, it’s not that hard to see. Babs did not allow these guys to play the style of hockey keefe did. It was north/south, blocking shots, getting in lanes. I think back then those Boston teams and Washington were just better teams than the leafs teams. Plus the leafs d core simply couldn’t keep up. But the leafs played a good style of hockey that was honest and didn’t cheat for effort with Babs.

Their style of play, approach and attitude towards the game changed once Keefe got here. The biggest tell of that was in the Amazon documentary, Keefe called the top players in for a meeting and said we are not scoring enough playoff style goals, we need to get to the front of the net. Joe Thornton speaks up in the meeting and says, “give us a break Keefer we are in first place” from there I kinda felt this team was f***ed in the locker room. That’s the type of leadership you have teaching Matthews, Nylander and Marner?