Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[francis246]

Its honestly insane that Marner will want to be the HIGHEST PAID winger in the NHL on his next deal and you got people in here saying he just needs "the right mix" of people to be successful. Hes going to be the highest paid winger in the league and HE needs help to produce? Why the f*** is he the highest paid winger in the league then? What has he done for us?

I don’t believe for a second Marner will be the highest paid winger in the league with his next contract. What team is going to pay him more than Nylander, Pasta or Rantanen for that matter? No one.

What’s gonna happen is the same thing that happens to everyone else. Marner will get traded to a contender and the team he goes to will tell him we’ve got 11 or 11.5 on an 8 year deal for you. I’m a Marner fan and I don’t believe he’s getting more than Nylander. 0% of me believes that.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Okay but again, why would he want to leave living in Florida, and being on a team that has made it to the finals in b2b years to come here? Do people not try and think about the other perspective? Hes not even an Ontario kid.

Well ofcourse winning plays into it too. Provided, for many that the other criteria is met. And while I say Ontario, alot of Canadian kids growing up want to play for the Leafs until they learn the ropes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’m not blaming anything, I’m simply stating a fact. I’ve never encountered anyone who loves to find the negative in every post instead of just reading it for what it is. Rielly played like complete DOG shit this playoffs. Domi had 1 more assist than Marner and wasn’t much better. So I don’t even know why you’re bringing those two into the conversation.

You need multiple things to happen within a locker room to win. I know this from personal experience and others seem to understand that, why can’t you? Right now the leafs don’t have those things. It’s not about one individual player. There’s multiple things wrong.

If you want to have an intelligent serious discussion, lose the condescending arrogant tone. The bolded is complete crap, all I'm doing is explaining why I disagree with you.

I asked you about Rielly last playoffs, you don't have an answer so you're shifting the goalposts. And you're answer to Domi is that he wasn't "much better", that's a really weird response, I mean just how much better does Domi have to be in order to admit that Marner just flat out sucked? Domi's cap hit is a fraction of what Marner's making, the fact that he outplayed Marner should be enough for you to just admit it - Marner was a massive disappointment and that's on him, not on the coach or anyone else.

 

[rumman]

Why would he want to leave his spot in Florida for this mess?

You’d have to consider him mentally unstable to go from the Panthers to the Leafs…….

It's the cap. His cap value is too much. At 6.5 million very good value...at 10.9m, added to the other 4..cannot succeed

Yup, still too much cap tied up in forwards……

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t believe for a second Marner will be the highest paid winger in the league with his next contract. What team is going to pay him more than Nylander, Pasta or Rantanen for that matter? No one.

What’s gonna happen is the same thing that happens to everyone else. Marner will get traded to a contender and the team he goes to will tell him we’ve got 11 or 11.5 on an 8 year deal for you. I’m a Marner fan and I don’t believe he’s getting more than Nylander. 0% of me believes that.

The poster was talking about what Marner will want, not what he's going to get. And as far as that goes, UFA's routinely get overpaid so it's entirely possible that Marner will get 12m from someone. And to a team that's not a contender and just wants someone to help them sell tickets, Marner may well be worth it too.

 

[rumman]

So now you're blaming it on coaching and leadership, I'm not buying it. Marner wears the "A", doesn't that imply that he should be a leader as opposed to using the "but I have nobody to follow" excuse? And last season Rielly played great for us in the playoffs, Marner did not. If Rielly was somehow, motivated to play well, what's Marner's excuse for not being motivated. Hell even Domi played better than Marner this spring, how is it that he could find the motivation to play an Marner couldn't?

In the end motivation comes from within, you can’t motivate someone who doesn’t have a good reason to be motivated……..

Its honestly insane that Marner will want to be the HIGHEST PAID winger in the NHL on his next deal and you got people in here saying he just needs "the right mix" of people to be successful. Hes going to be the highest paid winger in the league and HE needs help to produce? Why the f*** is he the highest paid winger in the league then? What has he done for us?

Stop making sense……….

 

[francis246]

If you want to have an intelligent serious discussion, lose the condescending arrogant tone. The bolded is complete crap, all I'm doing is explaining why I disagree with you.

I asked you about Rielly last playoffs, you don't have an answer so you're shifting the goalposts. And you're answer to Domi is that he wasn't "much better", that's a really weird response, I mean just how much better does Domi have to be in order to admit that Marner just flat out sucked? Domi's cap hit is a fraction of what Marner's making, the fact that he outplayed Marner should be enough for you to just admit it - Marner was a massive disappointment and that's on him, not on the coach or anyone else.

Firstly I can have whatever tone I want LOL. Don’t tell me what I can and can’t do, I ain’t your child.

Shifting the goalposts is the most overused and overrated term on this dumbass board. First of all, I read through the post quickly so I didn’t see that you said last season, you mentioned domi’s this year playoffs so I thought you were referencing both Rielly and Domi’s playoffs this year.

I have never once said Marner played good these playoffs. So I don’t know where that’s coming from. His playoff performance for me this year was all I needed to see for me to be on board with him being moved. Not playing well can be attributed to many factors. From what I’ve seen out of the leafs there are a number of factors that have contributed to this core failing. Majority on the players because they play the games not the coaches but the organization has not set this group up for success as well. It’s been a massive failure on everyone’s part

 

[rumman]

Okay but again, why would he want to leave living in Florida, and being on a team that has made it to the finals in b2b years to come here? Do people not try and think about the other perspective? Hes not even an Ontario kid.

Only way the Leafs would have a sliver of hope to get him would be to grossly overpay him and that’s what got us into this mess in the first place……..

 

[rumman]

Firstly I can have whatever tone I want LOL. Don’t tell me what I can and can’t do, I ain’t your child.

Shifting the goalposts is the most overused and overrated term on this dumbass board. First of all, I read through the post quickly so I didn’t see that you said last season, you mentioned domi’s this year playoffs so I thought you were referencing both Rielly and Domi’s playoffs this year.

I have never once said Marner played good these playoffs. So I don’t know where that’s coming from. His playoff performance for me this year was all I needed to see for me to be on board with him being moved. Not playing well can be attributed to many factors. From what I’ve seen out of the leafs there are a number of factors that have contributed to this core failing. Majority on the players because they play the games not the coaches but the organization has not set this group up for success as well. It’s been a massive failure on everyone’s part

Seems to me when your cornered into explaining something you change the subject, classic maneuver, but you still haven’t countered the argument posed to you…….

 

[Peasy]

I don’t believe for a second Marner will be the highest paid winger in the league with his next contract. What team is going to pay him more than Nylander, Pasta or Rantanen for that matter? No one.

What’s gonna happen is the same thing that happens to everyone else. Marner will get traded to a contender and the team he goes to will tell him we’ve got 11 or 11.5 on an 8 year deal for you. I’m a Marner fan and I don’t believe he’s getting more than Nylander. 0% of me believes that.

I think he can totally get 12m from a team if he really wanted to. Regardless he will be within reach (he already is) of the highest paid wingers in the league. If youre in that group, you should be able to get results on your own and not need anyone to help IMO. Youre setting your team up for failure if youre paying someone that much and they cant even get things done on their own.

I don't think Rant will take 12+ personally. He was arguably right around Marner's level when they were RFA's and he signed for 1.5m+ less. Marner will want more than Nylander. You think he'd settle for just a 600k increase? I sure don't. He sure hasnt shown me anything to think he would.

 

[francis246]

I think he can totally get 12m from a team if he really wanted to. Regardless he will be within reach (he already is) of the highest paid wingers in the league. If youre in that group, you should be able to get results on your own and not need anyone to help IMO. Youre setting your team up for failure if youre paying someone that much and they cant even get things done on their own.

I don't think Rant will take 12+ personally. He was arguably right around Marner's level when they were RFA's and he signed for 1.5m+ less. Marner will want more than Nylander. You think he'd settle for just a 600k increase? I sure don't. He sure hasnt shown me anything to think he would.

We’ll I’m operating under the assumption Marner will be traded after July first. And I think if he’s getting traded to a contender, I don’t see him getting 12 million. I think other organizations will be able to get him to buy into their internal cap structure. Vegas for example, was able to convince Hanifin to take less than what he was offered by Calgary.

So I think if he’s traded to a destination where he believes he can win, I think he can be swayed into taking less than what he’d get from a bad team during UFA and get an 8 year deal. I think this summer will be a deciding one for his career.

Rant I see making 12+. I think Rant has his cup, he’ll want his money now lol. And if his comparable is Nylander and Marner and Aho I don’t see how Rantanen doesn’t get 12

Seems to me when your cornered into explaining something you change the subject, classic maneuver, but you still haven’t countered the argument posed to you…….

How did I change the subject here? He asked me why Marner can’t be motivated. I answered that multiple times from my perspective. I said that I think there are multiple factors, I think switching of the coach, bringing in guys like Thornton who were bad influences, some guys have it, some guys don’t. I have not changed my stance the entire time you prick

 

[Gary Nylund]

In the end motivation comes from within, you can’t motivate someone who doesn’t have a good reason to be motivated……..

Agree 100%. And when you pay someone as much money as Marner is being paid, the idea that you need worry about how to motivate him is insane.

Firstly I can have whatever tone I want LOL. Don’t tell me what I can and can’t do, I ain’t your child.

Shifting the goalposts is the most overused and overrated term on this dumbass board. First of all, I read through the post quickly so I didn’t see that you said last season, you mentioned domi’s this year playoffs so I thought you were referencing both Rielly and Domi’s playoffs this year.

I have never once said Marner played good these playoffs. So I don’t know where that’s coming from. His playoff performance for me this year was all I needed to see for me to be on board with him being moved. Not playing well can be attributed to many factors. From what I’ve seen out of the leafs there are a number of factors that have contributed to this core failing. Majority on the players because they play the games not the coaches but the organization has not set this group up for success as well. It’s been a massive failure on everyone’s part

You can do whatever you like, I'm just telling you that you're being arrogant, condescending and frankly, insulting in case you didn't know and if you want to have a discussion with me, you should stop.

If you're reading the posts too quickly before responding then that's easy to fix - take the time to comprehend what you're reading before responding.

There are many places to put blame for the team's failures and nobody is saying it's all on Marner. He's near the top of the list though and your posts sure sound like you're making excuses for him.

Go ahead and explain (if you can), why was Domi motivated to play well and Marner wasn't. They play for the same team, the same coach, if Domi can motivate himself to play his butt off, why can't money Mitch do the same?

I think he can totally get 12m from a team if he really wanted to. Regardless he will be within reach (he already is) of the highest paid wingers in the league. If youre in that group, you should be able to get results on your own and not need anyone to help IMO. Youre setting your team up for failure if youre paying someone that much and they cant even get things done on their own.

I don't think Rant will take 12+ personally. He was arguably right around Marner's level when they were RFA's and he signed for 1.5m+ less. Marner will want more than Nylander. You think he'd settle for just a 600k increase? I sure don't. He sure hasnt shown me anything to think he would.

As a UFA, I think he almost certainly gets offered 12m from somebody unless he completely falls off a clilff next season.

 

[rumman]

We’ll I’m operating under the assumption Marner will be traded after July first. And I think if he’s getting traded to a contender, I don’t see him getting 12 million. I think other organizations will be able to get him to buy into their internal cap structure. Vegas for example, was able to convince Hanifin to take less than what he was offered by Calgary.

So I think if he’s traded to a destination where he believes he can win, I think he can be swayed into taking less than what he’d get from a bad team during UFA and get an 8 year deal. I think this summer will be a deciding one for his career.

Rant I see making 12+. I think Rant has his cup, he’ll want his money now lol. And if his comparable is Nylander and Marner and Aho I don’t see how Rantanen doesn’t get 12



How did I change the subject here? He asked me why Marner can’t be motivated. I answered that multiple times from my perspective. I said that I think there are multiple factors, I think switching of the coach, bringing in guys like Thornton who were bad influences, some guys have it, some guys don’t. I have not changed my stance the entire time you prick

Sticks and stones my friend, sticks and stones…..

 

[Gary Nylund]

How is this relevant to the poll question which was the issue? Is english a second language to you or do you have and LD?

Why do you post like such a condescending &$%#^&%&^ so often?

How did I change the subject here? He asked me why Marner can’t be motivated. I answered that multiple times from my perspective. I said that I think there are multiple factors, I think switching of the coach, bringing in guys like Thornton who were bad influences, some guys have it, some guys don’t. I have not changed my stance the entire time you prick

Seriously? What's the matter with you dude?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Simply not true, intensity is something that can be easily taught and instilled. You need to find the right motivating factors, I know hating on Marner is the flavour of the month right now but Marner has played with intensity in the playoffs in his career before. His first 3 playoffs runs were excellent, something changed after Babcock left. So whether it was the mix of the group, coaching, external media pressure, who he was playing with. It’s affected his game. Remove him from this environment I think he’s fine. Toronto ain’t the place for him no more.

Um, what changed was HE GOT PAID.

 

[GoonieFace]

Why do you post like such a condescending &$%#^&%&^ so often?

Probably because he is one

 

[ToneDog]

I listened to Friday's Kyper and Bourne podcast where one poster said that MacLean said they should convince Tavares to move. I found it interesting that at the same time Kyper said that he does not think the Leafs will make Marner a $100m offer and he would walk. When Kyper pressed MacLean as to what he would do with Marner, MacLean made the move Tavares suggestion.

 

[francis246]

Agree 100%. And when you pay someone as much money as Marner is being paid, the idea that you need worry about how to motivate him is insane.

You can do whatever you like, I'm just telling you that you're being arrogant, condescending and frankly, insulting in case you didn't know and if you want to have a discussion with me, you should stop.

If you're reading the posts too quickly before responding then that's easy to fix - take the time to comprehend what you're reading before responding.

There are many places to put blame for the team's failures and nobody is saying it's all on Marner. He's near the top of the list though and your posts sure sound like you're making excuses for him.

Go ahead and explain (if you can), why was Domi motivated to play well and Marner wasn't. They play for the same team, the same coach, if Domi can motivate himself to play his butt off, why can't money Mitch do the same?


As a UFA, I think he almost certainly gets offered 12m from somebody unless he completely falls off a clilff next season.

Agree 100%. And when you pay someone as much money as Marner is being paid, the idea that you need worry about how to motivate him is insane.

You can do whatever you like, I'm just telling you that you're being arrogant, condescending and frankly, insulting in case you didn't know and if you want to have a discussion with me, you should stop.

If you're reading the posts too quickly before responding then that's easy to fix - take the time to comprehend what you're reading before responding.

There are many places to put blame for the team's failures and nobody is saying it's all on Marner. He's near the top of the list though and your posts sure sound like you're making excuses for him.

Go ahead and explain (if you can), why was Domi motivated to play well and Marner wasn't. They play for the same team, the same coach, if Domi can motivate himself to play his butt off, why can't money Mitch do the same?


As a UFA, I think he almost certainly gets offered 12m from somebody unless he completely falls off a clilff next season.

Well I think one big motivating factor for Domi is he wants a long term contract and he wants to be a leaf long term. Marner has his money and knows he controls the situation of remaining a leaf.

I think they paid these guys way too much money too early. They should have brushed them. I also think the season where they brought Thornton was the worst thing they could have done for this group. It seems like Marner in particular was close to Thornton and I have me theory on what he learned from Thornton. Lastly I think Marner plays better under hard nosed coaches

 

[57 Years No Cup]

So now you're blaming it on coaching and leadership, I'm not buying it. Marner wears the "A", doesn't that imply that he should be a leader as opposed to using the "but I have nobody to follow" excuse? And last season Rielly played great for us in the playoffs, Marner did not. If Rielly was somehow, motivated to play well, what's Marner's excuse for not being motivated. Hell even Domi played better than Marner this spring, how is it that he could find the motivation to play an Marner couldn't?

It's never Mitchy's fault. He's always the victim.

 

[ToneDog]

Panarin was given time and patience and is an all world talent. He's a great player and is 32 years old.

He wasn't effective against Florida. He made some nice plays and can generate offense that others can't, but a total nonfactor against an incredibly grindy and physical team.

These small soft finesse players are not worth bank rolling.

Incredible value in the regular season though.

1.16 PPG in regular season and 0.685 PPG in the playoffs. He does have 21 goals in 73 playoff games. Clearly melted when the heat was turned up vs Florida. No idea if this was the case when he was in Chicago but the numbers do not lie. Hell neither does the eye test.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Well I think one big motivating factor for Domi is he wants a long term contract and he wants to be a leaf long term. Marner has his money and knows he controls the situation of remaining a leaf.

I think they paid these guys way too much money too early. They should have brushed them. I also think the season where they brought Thornton was the worst thing they could have done for this group. It seems like Marner in particular was close to Thornton and I have me theory on what he learned from Thornton. Lastly I think Marner plays better under hard nosed coaches

Keefe being partially to blame for Marners playoff performance is a new one

 

[francis246]

Keefe being partially to blame for Marners playoff performance is a new one

I would say coaching is a factor, not to blame and there’s a difference.

Keefe factors in because if Marner is playing bad why is Marner not being benched or demoted? I don’t think anyone would have an issue with that besides the player. Keefe knew the way these guys played wasn’t going to win but he didn’t do anything to force the issue, just kept rolling them out there. So yes Keefe has a part in it. If you want your guys to play North/South send a message, “if you don’t play this way, you don’t get to play on the PP or you’re on the third line until you do”

There was no accountability and that’s why Marner still plays the way he has because he knows he going right back out there.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I would say coaching is a factor, not to blame and there’s a difference.

Keefe factors in because if Marner is playing bad why is Marner not being benched or demoted? I don’t think anyone would have an issue with that besides the player. Keefe knew the way these guys played wasn’t going to win but he didn’t do anything to force the issue, just kept rolling them out there. So yes Keefe has a part in it. If you want your guys to play North/South send a message, “if you don’t play this way, you don’t get to play on the PP or you’re on the third line until you do”

There was no accountability and that’s why Marner still plays the way he has because he knows he going right back out there.

Yeah I can't understand why Willy is the only one who would get benched for bad play

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah I can't understand why Willy is the only one who would get benched for bad play

Keefe let the tail wag the dog. He was the wrong coach for these guys and now the cows are out of the barn. I can't understand how NJ thinks he is the right coach for them. I guess we will find out.

 

[francis246]

Yeah I can't understand why Willy is the only one who would get benched for bad play

I think it’s because Keefe had a comfortability and trust with Willy. He coached him the longest and I think keefe knew Willy wouldn’t take it personally. Maybe the other two have demonstrated they would take it personally? Thats my only guess.