Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[notDatsyuk]

I can see JT signing here after next year, but not as a player, particularly if he doesn't get a really good offer from elsewhere.

Would a 3x3 deal be worth uprooting his family compared to 500K for 5 years to coach here?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Gary this is a full of crap take. No one knew Hyman would become what he became. Also Hyman was one of Toronto’s worst playoff performers. He kind of cost us the MTL series tnt, how many grade A chances did Marner and Matthews provide him and he just bluntly missed especially in game 5 & 6. He scores just one of those chances Toronto advances. I’m glad he found his game in EDM, but let’s not pretend he’d be what he is now in Toronto 100%.

@Tarmore is correct, can we really say Mitch won’t ever figure it out? Or any of Torontos stars for that matter?

So how many years are we supposed to waste away as a franchise while these guys steal money and fail to lead us anywhere? What's the cutoff?

 

[rumman]

So how many years are we supposed to waste away as a franchise while these guys steal money and fail to lead us anywhere? What's the cutoff?

run it back to infinity and beyond.................

 

[Clark4Ever]

Feels like it's worth noting that there were some here that agreed with the decision to let him go - his age, injury history, and his desire for term, really put a lot of people off of extending him.

it was cute when many spent like 3 weeks pretending like Bunting was a clear and huge upgrade over Hyman and a home-run decision by the leafs.

For sure, but it's also worth mentioning that no one, including Oilers management, could have possibly expected the production that Hyman has provided for them.

 

[likecheese]

I can see JT signing here after next year, but not as a player, particularly if he doesn't get a really good offer from elsewhere.

Would a 3x3 deal be worth uprooting his family compared to 500K for 5 years to coach here?

Maybe he could retire and coach here this year for 1x11.

 

[Tarmore]

Comparing Hyman and Marner are like comparing apples and oranges. Marner is a playmaker but when you compare him to a playmaker like McDavid, it is night and day. Watching the Rangers series, I get Marner vibes from Panarin but Panarin can score.

How long do you wait for a guy you have paid over $60m to and do you want to pay him more tens of millions and keep waiting? f*** no.

I never compared him to MCDavid or Panarin nore would I, those are your words not mine.

I was just pointing out how you conveniently ignored that Hyman was a MORE of a play-off dud for us than Marner.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I never compared him to MCDavid or Panarin nore would I, those are your words not mine.

I was just pointing out how you conveniently ignored that Hyman was a MORE of a play-off dud for us than Marner.

I think we kinda screwed/misused Hyman here.

He's been playing RW with McDavid, he's a right shot and it's infinitely easier to play without having to take everything on your backhand.

Obviously with Nylander and Marner also playing that position, Hyman was shifted to his off wing. He isn't a natural shooter that's going to snipe, he gets greasy goals so he couldn't score off one-time from further out, so around the net on his back hand was a bit difficult.

 

[ToneDog]

I wonder if in an alternate universe where Hyman was a Leafs core player and Marner was in Edmonton with McDavid and Draisaitl would Marner have much better numbers and more series wins? My imagination tells me yes.

Sure pay me $12.5m and give me McDavid and Draisaitl as linemates. News flash - $12m players should not need McDavid and Draisaitl. McDavid made a $5m Hyman into a 54 goal scorer. Marner is not a $12m player. With 88 and 34 missing, instead of stepping up, he shit the bed. Give me 12 Lombergs for $12m over Marner.

 

[rumman]

Sure pay me $12.5m and give me McDavid and Draisaitl as linemates. News flash - $12m players should not need McDavid and Draisaitl. McDavid made a $5m Hyman into a 54 goal scorer. Marner is not a $12m player. With 88 and 34 missing, instead of stepping up, he shit the bed. Give me 12 Lombergs for $12m over Marner.

completely agree........

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I think we kinda screwed/misused Hyman here.

He's been playing RW with McDavid, he's a right shot and it's infinitely easier to play without having to take everything on your backhand.

Obviously with Nylander and Marner also playing that position, Hyman was shifted to his off wing. He isn't a natural shooter that's going to snipe, he gets greasy goals so he couldn't score off one-time from further out, so around the net on his back hand was a bit difficult.

Could’ve avoided this issue had Babcock and this franchise weren’t so scared about playing Willy at centre. Would’ve solved our future 2C problem and allowed Hyman to play on his strong side.

 

[ToneDog]

I never compared him to MCDavid or Panarin nore would I, those are your words not mine.

I was just pointing out how you conveniently ignored that Hyman was a MORE of a play-off dud for us than Marner.

I did not say you compared Marner to McD and Panarin but I understand why you might think so. I was saying Marner's game is more comparable to playmakers like McD and Panarin than Hyman.

Hyman was making $2m here and I recall him playing on one leg vs Boston and vs Montreal he was returning (probably early) from a knee injury he sustained late in the year vs Vancouver.

You cannot not take a discount, ask for Matthews money and be a playoff dud every year since. If the Marner camp was not full of itself and made Ranta, Point and Aho his comparables and took similar deals, the fanbase probably would not have turned on him. He made his bed. Time to lie in it.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I did not say you compared Marner to McD and Panarin but I understand why you might think so. I was saying Marner's game is more comparable to playmakers like McD and Panarin than Hyman.

Hyman was making $2m here and I recall him playing on one leg vs Boston and vs Montreal he was returning (probably early) from a knee injury he sustained late in the year vs Vancouver.

You cannot not take a discount, ask for Matthews money and be a playoff dud every year since. If the Marner camp was not full of itself and made Ranta, Point and Aho his comparables and took similar deals, the fanbase probably would not have turned on him. He made his bed. Time to lie in it.

I think Rantanen signed right after Marner, a lot of the guys that summer were waiting for Marner to set the bar and Dubas caved.

Dubas screwed it up so much.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Gary this is a full of crap take. No one knew Hyman would become what he became. Also Hyman was one of Toronto’s worst playoff performers. He kind of cost us the MTL series tnt, how many grade A chances did Marner and Matthews provide him and he just bluntly missed especially in game 5 & 6. He scores just one of those chances Toronto advances. I’m glad he found his game in EDM, but let’s not pretend he’d be what he is now in Toronto 100%.

@Tarmore is correct, can we really say Mitch won’t ever figure it out? Or any of Torontos stars for that matter?

What's a crap take? I can only assume that you misunderstood what I said. You're talking about "no one knew" and "let’s not pretend he’d be what he is now in Toronto" what's that got to do with what I said?

All I said was that if I'm drafting a team to play in the playoffs today, I take Hyman over Marner. To be clear, what Hyman was or wasn't in Toronto isn't part of the equation. As of today, Hyman is a better playoff performer than Marner and when you consider that Hyman's cap hit is only half of Marner's, that only drives home the point that if you're trying to win in the playoffs, paying 11 million to Marner is insane.

P.S. Hyman was badly injured in many playoff games he played for us. This has nothing to do with what he is or isn't today but still, it's a fact.

I think Rantanen signed right after Marner, a lot of the guys that summer were waiting for Marner to set the bar and Dubas caved.

Dubas screwed it up so much.

I can only imagine how many agents are hoping Marner signs an extension with the Leafs before July 1.

 

[trellaine201]

Why is he having 1 on 1 meetings with the new coach if his plan is to find a new destination this summer? It looks like the plan is to let him play out his contract year under Berube and then see what happens.

I would guess the coach has a meeting with every player.

 

[howlman]

Im still frustrated from when Swayman turned the puck over to him and he still took it around the perimeter instead of going to the net

Playoff Marner at his finest.. that was so embarrassing and weak. Scared little boy out there playing against men. Stop and tuck it in the open net, and take the hit to give your team a chance to win.

 

[ToneDog]

I think Rantanen signed right after Marner, a lot of the guys that summer were waiting for Marner to set the bar and Dubas caved.

Dubas screwed it up so much.

Agreed. Does Ranta even get $9.5m if Marner does not get $11m? Sakic would not let Ranta screw his salary structure by caving to Ranta asking for Marner money. Can't say the same for the boy blunder when Marner compared himself to Matthews.

Playoff Marner at his finest.. that was so embarrassing and weak. Scared little boy out there playing against men. Stop and tuck it in the open net, and take the hit to give your team a chance to win.

Dishing to Edmundson rather than going to the net was another Marner playoff highlight.

 

[Tarmore]

So how many years are we supposed to waste away as a franchise while these guys steal money and fail to lead us anywhere? What's the cutoff?

They don't steal money they have a contract for services rendered that is negotiated by both parties.

No matter what light you try to shine on it.

 

[ToneDog]

What's a crap take? I can only assume that you misunderstood what I said. You're talking about "no one knew" and "let’s not pretend he’d be what he is now in Toronto" what's that got to do with what I said?

All I said was that if I'm drafting a team to play in the playoffs today, I take Hyman over Marner. To be clear, what Hyman was or wasn't in Toronto isn't part of the equation. As of today, Hyman is a better playoff performer than Marner and when you consider that Hyman's cap hit is only half of Marner's, that only drives home the point that if you're trying to win in the playoffs, paying 11 million to Marner is insane.

P.S. Hyman was badly injured in many playoff games he played for us. This has nothing to do with what he is or isn't today but still, it's a fact.


I can only imagine how many agents are hoping Marner signs an extension with the Leafs before July 1.

He can't be signed until after July 1st so agents will have to wait. Only way he signs with the Leafs is if he agrees to a sign and trade (at least I hope so), otherwise they will have to wait a year.

 

[Confucius]

Maybe he could retire and coach here this year for 1x11.

JT will get 6 next year, I’d rather have him than Bert.

 

[Tarmore]

I think we kinda screwed/misused Hyman here.

He's been playing RW with McDavid, he's a right shot and it's infinitely easier to play without having to take everything on your backhand.

Obviously with Nylander and Marner also playing that position, Hyman was shifted to his off wing. He isn't a natural shooter that's going to snipe, he gets greasy goals so he couldn't score off one-time from further out, so around the net on his back hand was a bit difficult.

We did see him line-up at RW a few times and he looked great at it Admittedly it was a small sample size because he was an injury fill-in. Someone with a better memory/able to look it up may be able to tell us how many games he played there. Pretty sure it wasn't many.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Couple issues with Hyman

#1 He had 2 significant knee injuries, people were afraid of a long term deal. Given his style of play

#2 The core 4 ate too much of the cap, we couldn't afford to allocate more cap to another forward

While he was great for us, he never would have produced these types of numbers with us. McDavid is a different animal and a pass first mentality vs Matthews shoot first. A lot of people are upset watching him perform at a high level, while it still stings, people gotta understand his ceiling was capped in Toronto, he's a much better fit in Edmonton.

I don’t get the angle of Hyman putting up his numbers because of McDavid, he’s still putting up ~60 point seasons at ES over there like he paced for here, he’s just healthy and gets 25 points on the powerplay now. We’ll see how his goalscoring holds up when McDavid is healthy and is able to shoot again instead of deferring like he did this year.

Yes he did have a more workhorse role with us but at the same time he led the league in high danger chances, it’s not like he didn’t have scoring opportunities here he just didn’t have the mechanics to finish consistently until he figured out how to roof the puck in tight at age 30.

 

[thewave]

He can't be signed until after July 1st so agents will have to wait. Only way he signs with the Leafs is if he agrees to a sign and trade (at least I hope so), otherwise they will have to wait a year.

Sign and trade with some retainer could work. 12m x 3 1m retained to get some better assets over here. I would even retain 1.5m x 4 (includes his current contracted season +3).

 

[WTFMAN99]

We did see him line-up at RW a few times and he looked great at it Admittedly it was a small sample size because he was an injury fill-in. Someone with a better memory/able to look it up may be able to tell us how many games he played there. Pretty sure it wasn't many.

I thought the best in a Leaf uniform he looked for me was that Mikayev-Engvall-Hyman line, forechecked the hell out of you, big, strong on the puck and fast.

He had more to give you offensively than that but in terms of pure puck handling, that was it.

 

[Antropovsky]

Former NHL player Commodore said Marner was "Terrible" in the playoffs. FYI

 

[AvroArrow]

I don’t get the angle of Hyman putting up his numbers because of McDavid, he’s still putting up ~60 point seasons at ES over there like he paced for here, he’s just healthy and gets 25 points on the powerplay now. We’ll see how his goalscoring holds up when McDavid is healthy and is able to shoot again instead of deferring like he did this year.

Not sure what I can really say to convince you, if after all this time you can't see it lol

Maroon was a great 30 goal scorer as well, I don't see how McDavid had anything to do with it.

Hyman is a great player but McDavid alone is responsible for creating at least 25 of those, if not more. Hyman obviously is a work horse, you can't discredit his compete level and IQ, but it's literally he goes to the net, McJesus dangles the entire team and gives him a tap in.