Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Gary Nylund]

This won't go ever well but why not.

Here are Hymans recent numbers

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Here are Marner's recent numbers

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Hymans only been over a point per game once in the last six seasons while Marner's point per game numbers kind of justify his large contract demands. Hyman played with world class players in all 6 of those seasons so maybe his hot playoffs this year on a good team is kind of inflating his aura.

In 76 playoff games Hyman has 56 points and +8.

In 57 playoff games Marner has 50 points and +10.

We all know Hyman goes to the net hard and bangs in greasy goals. But up until this year his numbers all round were pretty mid. He's also 31 while Marner is 27. In a vacuum , say an expansion team could sign either player, with no McJesus to play with I am not taking Hyman to build my franchise with over Marner. Hyman has had a great year but it could just be an aberration. Have a great day Marner fans.

Marner's playoff points all too often come at times where they aren't impactful. Usually that means either blowout games, or the first few games of the playoffs and by game 5 at the latest, he disappears.

One critical thing that you haven't factored in - Marner's cap hit is bigger than Hyman's. Not just a little bit bigger, but twice as big so it would be pretty insane if Hyman actually had more points than Marner.

Who would you rather have in the playoffs, Marner for 11 million or Hyman for 5.5?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Marner's playoff points all too often come at times where they aren't impactful. Usually that means either blowout games, or the first few games of the playoffs and by game 5 at the latest, he disappears.

One critical thing that you haven't factored in - Marner's cap hit is bigger than Hyman's. Not just a little bit bigger, but twice as big so it would be pretty insane if Hyman actually had more points than Marner.

Who would you rather have in the playoffs, Marner for 11 million or Hyman for 5.5?

The top heavy model is bad for a few reasons,

If one of them isn't going 11M / the upcoming 87.7M cap is 12.5% of your cap basically not contributing.

If one sucks and one is injured? 25% of your salary cap, like when JT got taken out against Montreal...or this series when we were missing Nylander and Matthews at different points.

 

[Racer88]

I'm not Gary Bettman, brah

Point well taken…..lol

 

[TheGreenTBer]

so who is buying all these jerseys (the only thing that management cares about)

Less people than would be buying them if the team were truly trying to fix their situation

 

[Nineteen67]

I am not sure how "true" this pic is that I just saw on twitter but it is something....

Can you imagine an agent revealing that information to another client.

 

[slozo]

Can you imagine an agent revealing that information to another client.

Wouldn't be through the agent, my goodness . . . would be through loose lips Marner chatting with a bud who has the same agent. Or even an overheard convo by that other player (although that's fairly unlikely).

Definitely possible.

 

[Tak7]

Wouldn't be through the agent, my goodness . . . would be through loose lips Marner chatting with a bud who has the same agent. Or even an overheard convo by that other player (although that's fairly unlikely).

Definitely possible.

Given the fact that the Leafs wrapped up their pro and amateur staff meetings last week, I would say it's extremely unlikely that any conversations about Marner's future have been had with the player so far - particularly ones that require him to provide potential teams in a trade.

I call BS on this.

 

[weems]

The top heavy model is bad for a few reasons,

If one of them isn't going 11M / the upcoming 87.7M cap is 12.5% of your cap basically not contributing.

If one sucks and one is injured? 25% of your salary cap, like when JT got taken out against Montreal...or this series when we were missing Nylander and Matthews at different points.

This is a great point, especially when you start to think about how physical and grueling a championship run is.
So the playoffs you need to play anywhere from 16 to possibly 28 games, games in which the intensity and physicality are drastically increased compared to regular season. Players are going to get extremely fatigued and many will get injuries and play banged up.

When this happens, the more capable soldiers you have the better. If some of your top players slow down for a stretch/get injured, you have secondary people who can step up for short periods of time and get the job done.

 

[QJo]

One aspect of the Marner resigning is that we've already overpaid Matthews by 500,000 and Nylander by 1M (imo) so if you can't get the Marner deal right we are in cap structure problems again. I can't see him accepting less than Nylander so he will be overpaid (imo) and we will again have millions to try to eek out of the rest of the lineup here and there. Going over market value for 1 or 2 guys is ok but you can't recoup millions over millions even with Spezza doing favour deals.

 

[sxvnert]

View attachment 876352

If Mitch and JT aren't gone shorty after their July 1st bonus payout then the Leafs are rolling it back. Be prepared for endless media shill articles with "but they can't just let him walk for nothing, they need to sign him!". Followed by "you can't have half your cap space spent on four players!"

 

[TheGreenTBer]

If Mitch and JT aren't gone shorty after their July 1st bonus payout then the Leafs are rolling it back. Be prepared for endless media shill articles with "but they can't just let him walk for nothing, they need to sign him!". Followed by "you can't have half your cap space spent on four players!"

There is absolutely zero chance JT is traded, even if his bonus is paid by the Leafs. Even if you could convince another team to offer something worthwhile JT would veto that shit in a nanosecond. He is either walking to UFA or being re-signed, my strong preference being the former.

Marner is different. He's younger and more talented. There are teams for which he could legitimately be a great fit and add a lot to their organization, and I could imagine him really enjoying himself in those locations. We have talked about the reasons for trading him ad nauseam, over and over, and some agree and some don't. If Marner is traded it will only happen during the summer; if he makes it to the start of the season he's staying at least to the end of the year...and hopefully no longer.

 

[WTFMAN99]

There is absolutely zero chance JT is traded, even if his bonus is paid by the Leafs. Even if you could convince another team to offer something worthwhile JT would veto that shit in a nanosecond. He is either walking to UFA or being re-signed, my strong preference being the former.

Marner is different. He's younger and more talented. There are teams for which he could legitimately be a great fit and add a lot to their organization, and I could imagine him really enjoying himself in those locations. We have talked about the reasons for trading him ad nauseam, over and over, and some agree and some don't. If Marner is traded it will only happen during the summer; if he makes it to the start of the season he's staying at least to the end of the year...and hopefully no longer.

RE: Tavares, everyone says he wouldn't waive because he has a family etc....so do a lot of other players in the league. Ullmark didn't waive because he didn't want to move his family mid-season, maybe in the off-season JT is more open to it, especially if he has been informed there are no plans to re-sign him. JT is going to end up having to move anyway because I don't think he's retiring at 34-35 years old in that scenario.

 

[hullsy47]

Given the fact that the Leafs wrapped up their pro and amateur staff meetings last week, I would say it's extremely unlikely that any conversations about Marner's future have been had with the player so far - particularly ones that require him to provide potential teams in a trade.

I call BS on this

 

[TheGreenTBer]

RE: Tavares, everyone says he wouldn't waive because he has a family etc....so do a lot of other players in the league. Ullmark didn't waive because he didn't want to move his family mid-season, maybe in the off-season JT is more open to it, especially if he has been informed there are no plans to re-sign him. JT is going to end up having to move anyway because I don't think he's retiring at 34-35 years old in that scenario.

JT might be open to moving somewhere else if he's a UFA and has maximum control over that scenario during the offseason. Him being traded would be utterly shocking to me and that's an understatement.

I don't think JT retires after next year either. I just really hope he takes his talents and lead feet somewhere else.

 

[thewave]

I am not sure how "true" this pic is that I just saw on twitter but it is something....

9 teams ensures we get good value. Good on Mitch if true.

 

[Nineteen67]

Wouldn't be through the agent, my goodness . . . would be through loose lips Marner chatting with a bud who has the same agent. Or even an overheard convo by that other player (although that's fairly unlikely).

Definitely possible.

The poster made up the story, but was looking for some dots to connect.

 

[thewave]

RE: Tavares, everyone says he wouldn't waive because he has a family etc....so do a lot of other players in the league. Ullmark didn't waive because he didn't want to move his family mid-season, maybe in the off-season JT is more open to it, especially if he has been informed there are no plans to re-sign him. JT is going to end up having to move anyway because I don't think he's retiring at 34-35 years old in that scenario.

TBH JT may actually be a guy that takes term and 3m to stay. If its like that I think about keeping him around.

Regarding Mitch. Its just too bad for this organization that we had Dubas and Shanahan. If those two morons accepted the 8.5mx8 deal for Mitch... This team may have went places by now. It sucks. Such a tough pill having an incompetently run team. Passed on JT as well.

 

[WTFMAN99]

JT might be open to moving somewhere else if he's a UFA and has maximum control over that scenario during the offseason. Him being traded would be utterly shocking to me and that's an understatement.

I don't think JT retires after next year either. I just really hope he takes his talents and lead feet somewhere else.

The one thing I wonder is if an extension is apart of that trade? Ex. Nashville wants to acquire him in a trade and is offering another 2 year extension with a NTC/NMC if he goes there, maybe that puts him more at ease with the trade? Okay it's a move but it's a 3 year move not a 1 year move.

 

[DarkKnight]

The one thing I wonder is if an extension is apart of that trade? Ex. Nashville wants to acquire him in a trade and is offering another 2 year extension with a NTC/NMC if he goes there, maybe that puts him more at ease with the trade? Okay it's a move but it's a 3 year move not a 1 year move.

I don’t think there is anyway Mitch moves without a long term deal in the thought process, 6-8 years.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don’t think there is anyway Mitch moves without a long term deal in the thought process, 6-8 years.

The above was in reference to JT

 

[Nineteen67]

If Mitch and JT aren't gone shorty after their July 1st bonus payout then the Leafs are rolling it back. Be prepared for endless media shill articles with "but they can't just let him walk for nothing, they need to sign him!". Followed by "you can't have half your cap space spent on four players!"

Best case scenario is to get something for him before the season starts, second best is trading him during the season, third best is letting walk for nothing. The only negative option is re-signing him.

 

[DarkKnight]

The above was in reference to JT

Yikes sorry, yes that makes sense.

 

[rumman]

As far as finding a role under Berube, I suspect both sides would be amenable there. Despite the lame bullshit here, Marner is a good team player and Berube has a history of asking guys to change their roles, Steen a prime example. Buy in is apparently one of his strengths and he would love a Marner on his team. It isn’t about that.

It’s the contract moving forward. With JT off the books we actually can afford to keep Mitch, but at what number? It seems counter intuitive, but if he took a reasonable number, we could one make it work and two he suddenly presents himself as taking a team friendly deal. The problem here again, the Nylander contract is a joke over payment, and it’s hard to se Marner taking less. So this is where the trade talk comes in, plus an element of changing the culture within.

I’d say it’s 50/50 he is in a Leafs uniform to start the season.

I don’t see any possibility of Marner not wanting max dollars especially after the ridiculous contract they gifted Nylander. JT won’t be resigned and even if he was it will be at such a low number it’s pretty much irrelevant imo. So someone has to go and to me it’s the guy on the expiring contract, hence Marner’s inevitable exit……….

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Not sure what a slappy is but I'm leaning towards them moving Marner. You should work on your manners. There's no need to be rude.

Telling it like it is ain't rude.

 

[rumman]

This won't go ever well but why not.

Here are Hymans recent numbers

View attachment 876586

Here are Marner's recent numbers

View attachment 876587

Hymans only been over a point per game once in the last six seasons while Marner's point per game numbers kind of justify his large contract demands. Hyman played with world class players in all 6 of those seasons so maybe his hot playoffs this year on a good team is kind of inflating his aura.

In 76 playoff games Hyman has 56 points and +8.

In 57 playoff games Marner has 50 points and +10.

We all know Hyman goes to the net hard and bangs in greasy goals. But up until this year his numbers all round were pretty mid. He's also 31 while Marner is 27. In a vacuum , say an expansion team could sign either player, with no McJesus to play with I am not taking Hyman to build my franchise with over Marner. Hyman has had a great year but it could just be an aberration. Have a great day Marner fans.

Hyman’s numbers are pretty staggering when you consider he makes less than half of Marner’s salary, dollar for dollar he’s a much better investment imo……….