Confirmed with Link: Mitch Marner Discussion Thread II - First Team All-Star

[Stephen]

They won two cups in a row. Not showing up isn't a pattern for them (not showing up is wrong term to use, let's stick to not being their best). They deserve someone else stepping up now.

Marner is on an unfortunate streak of dropping below his best in elimination games. Regardless if you want to be positive or negative, that's the objective fact he can't escape as your baseline.

I’m not defending Marner’s elimination game underachievement at all but I’m pretty sure Ross Colton, Yanni Gourde and Nick Paul were the only Lightning players to score in their last three Game 7’s so clinching those big games often isn’t down to the superstar breakthrough.

Ideally Marner would have come up bigger in Game 6 or 7. Ideally he gets paid $1-2 million less. But it is what it is. Can’t spend an entire offseason re-litigating this one. He’s definitely going to get you to the dance but like you said. Big games aren’t really for him.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Good overall series, but like most of the core, can't buy one in a pivotal game 7. You have players who are clutch, who are ready for the moment. Matthews, Marner, JT, Nylander. They just aren't that. Great, no phenomenal players. Not clutch. Too much money tied up to 4 guys who have demonstrated that they can't get it done in the playoffs.

 

[TheRumble]

Good overall series, but like most of the core, can't buy one in a pivotal game 7. You have players who are clutch, who are ready for the moment. Matthews, Marner, JT, Nylander. They just aren't that. Great, no phenomenal players. Not clutch. Too much money tied up to 4 guys who have demonstrated that they can't get it done in the playoffs.

Matthews is the reason the game 7 was tied for a brief moment. He doesn't make that pass, it's a 2-0 game. Nylander and Tavares tied and gave this team the lead in Game 6. They literally did all the scoring for the team in the final 3 games.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Superstar core surrounded by soft losers. Stop picking on Marner and Nylander.

Tampa makes random trade with Senators with Nick f***ing Paul and he shows more heart in game 7 than our depth players have shown in 3 years combined.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Matthews is the reason the game 7 was tied for a brief moment. He doesn't make that pass, it's a 2-0 game. Nylander and Tavares tied and gave this team the lead in Game 6. They literally did all the scoring for the team in the final 3 games.

As they should they all make 11M. When you have that much salary upfront you can't be surprised that the rest of the roster are scrubs that won't be able to contribute.

 

[Gallagbi]

As they should they all make 11M. When you have that much salary upfront you can't be surprised that the rest of the roster are scrubs that won't be able to contribute.

How did the depth scoring compare through the series

 

[TheRumble]

Superstar core surrounded by soft losers. Stop picking on Marner and Nylander.

Tampa makes random trade with Senators with Nick f***ing Paul and he shows more heart in game 7 than our depth players have shown in 3 years combined.

I wouldn't go that far. The Leafs had depth players in the past show up and supplant the production of at least 2 of the failing top 4 guys. This year it was reversed, the depth players won us one game (Game 3) but outside of that game, Five guys did all the scoring.

It's hard to blame any single depth player but as a whole, I would have liked to have seen a bit more production from the bottom six.

As they should they all make 11M. When you have that much salary upfront you can't be surprised that the rest of the roster are scrubs that won't be able to contribute.

You're speaking out both sides of your mouth now. You went from scapegoating the top 4 for not producing despite scoring 12/24 goals and now you're saying they're the reason we have a bad bottom 6. Pick a lane and stay consistent or just admit to being emotional and wrong.

The scrubs won us game 3 - Kampf, Blackwell, Mikeyhevx2 and Rielly on the powerplay were the goal scorers. They didn't do it outside of that game which is the issue.

Would have liked to have seen more production from the bottom 6, could have used a little more offensive contribution from the defense outside of Rielly. Bunting didn't have a great series but he seemed to be playing hurt.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

I wouldn't go that far. The Leafs had depth players in the past show up and supplant the production of at least 2 of the failing top 4 guys. This year it was reversed, the depth players won us one game (Game 3) but outside of that game, Five guys did all the scoring.

It's hard to blame any single depth player but as a whole, I would have liked to have seen a bit more production from the bottom six.

I would be fine with the depth not producing if they actually played well. They were bad outside of big PK moments and David Kampf rush.

It was hard watching mik kerfoot and engvall play so scared 5 on 5. That's a big issue because their usage was high. Some games usage was on par with nylander and tavares.

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

If this doesn't tell you Mitch has the passion of a warrior, I don't know what will. He 's only a man, and wars are won my an army. Need to see the same warrior emotions from top to bottom. It is coming, though.

 

[TheRumble]

I would be fine with the depth not producing if they actually played well. They were bad outside of big PK moments and David Kampf rush.

It was hard watching mik kerfoot and engvall play so scared 5 on 5. That's a big issue because their usage was high. Some games usage was on par with nylander and tavares.

Kampf I'm not gonna be too hard on. He's always been a defensive center specialist and he performed as advertised. Actually even better than advertised to be honest. I'm glad they got him for another year.

The best iteration of the Kampf line was Kerfoot, Kampt and Kase IMO. Kase's career got derailed with concussion #8 this year but that was the risk with bringing him in.

Engvall-Kampf-Nylander worked well but this line was put together because the Tavares-Nylander line was getting caved in defensively late in the year but it did provide a bit more dangerous of a third line.

With Mikeyhev leaving, I think we just gotta hope Robertson is ready next year to fill in for him. He's got more of shooting talent than Mikeyehv or Engvall.

 

[ULF_55]

If this doesn't tell you Mitch has the passion of a warrior, I don't know what will. He 's only a man, and wars are won my an army. Need to see the same warrior emotions from top to bottom. It is coming, though.

Yes, expectations of marner are out of line.

He is not going to put the team on his back and carry it to victory.

His contract is a problem, but that has to be shared equally between Paul and Kyle.

They have to build a better team and let marner be.

 

[SoVi3t]

Superstar core surrounded by soft losers. Stop picking on Marner.

So it was the 'soft losers' surrounding Marner, that we've been rotating through for over half a decade now, that are the reason why Marner had zero shots last night and has been a ghost for us in almost every playoff game he is in?

Was it their fault he took an overpriced contract, too?

 

[SoVi3t]

If this doesn't tell you Mitch has the passion of a warrior, I don't know what will. He 's only a man, and wars are won my an army. Need to see the same warrior emotions from top to bottom. It is coming, though.

Every year for half a decade has been tears of sadness and the message that "do not worry, we learned our lesson, we know what we have to do to win, next year will be different" then they literally don't show for a couple of playoff games after an offensive regular season.

What has Mitch learned? What lesson did he take to heart last night, when he had ZERO SHOTS?

 

[saffronleaf]

Marner really f***ed up in the last two games. Always over passing and hanging on to the puck too long.

25 minutes, no shots, and crying again.

Kampf I'm not gonna be too hard on. He's always been a defensive center specialist and he performed as advertised. Actually even better than advertised to be honest. I'm glad they got him for another year.

The best iteration of the Kampf line was Kerfoot, Kampt and Kase IMO. Kase's career got derailed with concussion #8 this year but that was the risk with bringing him in.

Engvall-Kampf-Nylander worked well but this line was put together because the Tavares-Nylander line was getting caved in defensively late in the year but it did provide a bit more dangerous of a third line.

With Mikeyhev leaving, I think we just gotta hope Robertson is ready next year to fill in for him. He's got more of shooting talent than Mikeyehv or Engvall.

Robertson needs at least 5-6 more years in the Marlies to develop.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes, expectations of marner are out of line.

He is not going to put the team on his back and carry it to victory.

His contract is a problem, but that has to be shared equally between Paul and Kyle.

They have to build a better team and let marner be.

I agree. I've always been with the majority who said that his contract was ridiculous but that's not on him, that's on Dubas. I've been pretty vocal about him not playing well in the playoffs the last few years but I thought he played very well in this series and that includes last night.

I'm so used to getting toasted in game 7, this was a refreshing change. This team played a great series and in the end, Vasi outplayed Campbell last night and that was the difference.

We need a #1 goalie. I have no idea what Dubas has in mind but hopefully he'll figure something out. At least he didn't trade away a bunch of futures for MAF so while this loss was hard to take, I still think we're pretty well set up for the future if we find ourselves a goalie.

 

[ULF_55]

I agree. I've always been with the majority who said that his contract was ridiculous but that's not on him, that's on Dubas. I've been pretty vocal about him not playing well in the playoffs the last few years but I thought he played very well in this series and that includes last night.

I'm so used to getting toasted in game 7, this was a refreshing change. This team played a great series and in the end, Vasi outplayed Campbell last night and that was the difference.

We need a #1 goalie. I have no idea what Dubas has in mind but hopefully he'll figure something out. At least he didn't trade away a bunch of futures for MAF so while this loss was hard to take, I still think we're pretty well set up for the future if we find ourselves a goalie.

There are some UFA keepers, but I think the bidding will be beyond what the Leafs can do.

The options are taking on another Campbell hoping he is the real deal.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There are some UFA keepers, but I think the bidding will be beyond what the Leafs can do.

The options are taking on another Campbell hoping he is the real deal.

Yeah I don't think there are any easy answers here so I'm not going to think about it too much, after all, it's Kyle's job not mine. I'll just wait and see what happens and hope he comes up with something good.

 

[ECanuck]

Good overall series, but like most of the core, can't buy one in a pivotal game 7. You have players who are clutch, who are ready for the moment. Matthews, Marner, JT, Nylander. They just aren't that. Great, no phenomenal players. Not clutch. Too much money tied up to 4 guys who have demonstrated that they can't get it done in the playoffs.

Yeah man. Nick Paul is a legend.

 

[TheRumble]

There are some UFA keepers, but I think the bidding will be beyond what the Leafs can do.

The options are taking on another Campbell hoping he is the real deal.

If we move on from Campbell and get rid of Mrazek, the most obvious upgrade is Kuemper. But Keumper is 32, looking for a long term deal and has had injury issues every year he's been a starter.

 

[A1LeafNation]

If we move on from Campbell and get rid of Mrazek, the most obvious upgrade is Kuemper. But Keumper is 32, looking for a long term deal and has had injury issues every year he's been a starter.

Shouldn't go with 1 guy. Kemper could be another Grubauer.

Get a 1a to go with a Campbell who is a 1b.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

So it was the 'soft losers' surrounding Marner, that we've been rotating through for over half a decade now, that are the reason why Marner had zero shots last night and has been a ghost for us in almost every playoff game he is in?

Was it their fault he took an overpriced contract, too?

If tampas depth , that isn't that hard to put together production wise, had leafs core production this playoffs, we'd have been swept. So yes its a superstar core surrounded by soft losers regardless of another game 7 flop

 

[SoVi3t]

I've never seen Marner have a good playoffs yet. In all the time I've watched him. Flashes here and there, for sure. But the amount of games he can literally go without a single shot, and just seeming to be invisible on the ice. I can't for the life of me recall a full playoff game where he was a dominant presence the whole time, or really even amazed me. Entire games where he just seems to not show up. Even in the regular season, I've seen it from him countless times during overtimes.

Can he even grow a playoff beard yet?

I think he's an overhyped player with an absurdly expensive contract for what he provides overall.

 

[Dominance]

Unbelievable that Marner is being scapegoated yet again. Easily our best forward on both sides of the puck this series.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

I'm only trading him for a bigger, more physical superstar forward. You don't trade a player of his caliber without a concrete plan. The only player I've thought about trading him for is Matthew Tkachuk. Marner played well, he's a top 15 forward in the NHL. He's a two-way player. I just don't like how perimeter-orientated he is, but I'm not blaming him for this loss and I don't think its time to trade him.

 

[frizzer1]

Marner is outstanding defensively and maybe the top pk in the league.
And had that shot that hit the post gone in , this might be an entirely different discussion.