Mitch Marner discussion thread continued ..

[baton elevated]

I'd take Eichel over Marner any day of the week.

They are very equal in talent and draft position pedigree. I was huge Marner fan and on many occasions voiced my approval of the pick.
He hasn't disappointed with the contributìons he has made to the team thus far (the stats speak for themselves).
He is still growing into his body and roll with the team but for me to choose between Eichel and Mitch comes down to a few things.
1 Eichel is a natural center, Mitch I believe can play center as well. Eichel
2 Size difference, nothing to elaborate on there. Eichel
3 Speed not even close. Eichel
4 Major League Shot. Eichel
5 Vision and Creativity. Mitch
6 Less salary cap. Eichel
Taking all these factors into consideration the clear cut favorite is Eichel.
That shot alone tips the scales. Imagine him playing clean up on AM's feeds.
Eichel would have buried 80% of the looks Mitch gets. That muffin shot is just so not acceptable for a $11M player.
We all have our opinions but if a trade out had to happen to better the team, this one is a pure hockey trade that benefits both teams.

 

[egd27]

I'd take Eichel over Marner any day of the week.

Matthews - Nylander
Eichel - Tavares (wing)

I could go for that

 

[BraveCanadian]

Marner's been playing well and the production will come. Don't know what you guys are watching.

There aren't a lot of wingers with his kind of vision and passing ability to pair with a guy like Matthews and get the most out of both of them.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Lol. Yeah you’re definitely not a Toronto guy. “It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.”

I'm a "fool" because I think Toronto doesn't have as good of a defense as the other teams in round two of the playoffs? I'd love to see your math on that. But then again, maybe your advice about keeping mouth shutting prevents you from doing that.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Marner's been playing well and the production will come. Don't know what you guys are watching.

There aren't a lot of wingers with his kind of vision and passing ability to pair with a guy like Matthews and get the most out of both of them.

Agreed. The fact that people are blaming Marner is extremely confusing to me.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Marner's been playing well and the production will come. Don't know what you guys are watching.

There aren't a lot of wingers with his kind of vision and passing ability to pair with a guy like Matthews and get the most out of both of them.

We are watching a kid who circles away from every loose puck battle so as not to engage in getting puck for team .. we are watching a kid skate around da perimeter waiting for someone to pass it to him .. we are watching him receive some passes in great scoring areas and being a complete non factor as he has a muffin shot so much so that habs give him da shot and isolate on Matty so he can't get puck to Matty .. then he gets mixed up because he knows he can't shoot and score so he is trying some really really stupid creative plays even unknown to him .. this is what is obvious to watch .. we all know he can't blow by anyone as he has no speed and he can't overpower da net because he has no strength .. but we don't want to watch a kid who got his $$$ and does not even try to help out

 

[BraveCanadian]

We are watching a kid who circles away from every loose puck battle so as not to engage in getting puck for team .. we are watching a kid skate around da perimeter waiting for someone to pass it to him .. we are watching him receive some passes in great scoring areas and being a complete non factor as he has a muffin shot so much so that habs give him da shot and isolate on Matty so he can't get puck to Matty .. then he gets mixed up because he knows he can't shoot and score so he is trying some really really stupid creative plays even unknown to him .. this is what is obvious to watch .. we all know he can't blow by anyone as he has no speed and he can't overpower da net because he has no strength .. but we don't want to watch a kid who got his $$$ and does not even try to help out

Show me on the doll where he touched you.

 

[stickty111]

I'm comparing to other playoff teams, not the the Devils or Sabres. They're good enough to win, just not as good as the rest of the teams in round 2 whose wingers are being compared to Marner.

Just my two cents...I could very well be proven wrong next round, it happens all the time

We are comparing it to playoff teams. Don't try to be believe something from 4 years ago.

 

[stickty111]

I'm a "fool" because I think Toronto doesn't have as good of a defense as the other teams in round two of the playoffs? I'd love to see your math on that. But then again, maybe your advice about keeping mouth shutting prevents you from doing that.

So you think Winnipeg has better defence? Yikes

 

[stickty111]

Agreed. The fact that people are blaming Marner is extremely confusing to me.

We are blaming Marner on offensive production. Then again, you seem to have 2016 thinking on our defence. Leafs were very good defensively this year.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Marner +
For
Tkachuk and Andersson

Or

Marner+ Dermott
For
Hanifin + Gaudreau

 

[baton elevated]

Marner +
For
Tkachuk and Andersson

Or

Marner+ Dermott
For
Hanifin + Gaudreau

Second one is cringe worthy. Don't like the first one much either.
Eichel for me is the choice.

 

[Beyonder91]

We are watching a kid who circles away from every loose puck battle so as not to engage in getting puck for team .. we are watching a kid skate around da perimeter waiting for someone to pass it to him .. we are watching him receive some passes in great scoring areas and being a complete non factor as he has a muffin shot so much so that habs give him da shot and isolate on Matty so he can't get puck to Matty .. then he gets mixed up because he knows he can't shoot and score so he is trying some really really stupid creative plays even unknown to him .. this is what is obvious to watch .. we all know he can't blow by anyone as he has no speed and he can't overpower da net because he has no strength .. but we don't want to watch a kid who got his $$$ and does not even try to help out

There is a reason Marner is usually the high man in the zone. He is F3 on the line. The Leafs don't want him down low battling for pucks. They want him moving around in a position to receive passes/collect loose pucks or to get in lanes for breakout attempts and also be the first man back for a rush going the other way. The only time they want him down low is if he has the puck on his stick or he is making a forechecking read with speed. Marner standing still battling behind the opposing net is not what they want.

I know this is probably hard for to believe but this is the game plan.

You are complaining about him doing exactly what he is supposed to do.

Here is an article for you about F3:

What Is an F3 Forward in Hockey?

 

[JayfromNB1219]

I'm a "fool" because I think Toronto doesn't have as good of a defense as the other teams in round two of the playoffs? I'd love to see your math on that. But then again, maybe your advice about keeping mouth shutting prevents you from doing that.

You have my attention...outside of the Canes (who have a top 2 D corps in the league) what playoff team has a D corps better than the Leafs...honestly

 

[Beyonder91]

We are blaming Marner on offensive production. Then again, you seem to have 2016 thinking on our defence. Leafs were very good defensively this year.

Of course you are. It's your favourite thing to do although you were eerily silent this season...
What about Matthews?

 

[rawsensation]

Get Marner off Matthews line and put Nylander there. Nylander gets under appreciated because Marner puts up more assists but Nylander has always been the better play driver imo no matter who he has played with. I think Nylander makes our 1st line a lot deadlier and Marner can get some easier matchups 5v5 with Kerfoot and Galchenyuk.

I'd be inclined to give that a try for a period and see how it goes from there. It's not like Matthews and Nylander haven't played together before and it free's up Marner to face 2nd pair d men with more grittier players like Kerf and Gally, kind of similar to how he played with JVR and Bozie back in the day.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Marner's been playing well and the production will come. Don't know what you guys are watching.

There aren't a lot of wingers with his kind of vision and passing ability to pair with a guy like Matthews and get the most out of both of them.

Because Marner was "playing well" two playoffs ago, with little production.
Then Marner was "playing well" last playoffs, with little production.
And now, five games in, he's "playing well", with little production.

I gave him a break two years ago for lack of playoff production. But not last year. And most certainly not this year.

It's not about "looking" nice any longer. It's about REAL WORLD RESULTS!!!!

 

[hamzarocks]

Because Marner was "playing well" two playoffs ago, with little production.
Then Marner was "playing well" last playoffs, with little production.
And now, five games in, he's "playing well", with little production.

I gave him a break two years ago for lack of playoff production. But not last year. And most certainly not this year.

It's not about "looking" nice any longer. It's about REAL WORLD RESULTS!!!!

Marner's a 2pt game away from being ppg thus series

His production looks bad only b/c of very high expectations otherwise if he goes ppg this series thats a strong performance with him driving chances on his line and killing penalties well.

Leads wrap this on satourday and I see marner ending with 6 in 6

 

[member 298589]

I have never been a huge fan of Marner's game. He's overpaid for his delicate, finesse-first style of hockey. He doesn't know how to put the hard work in as soon as the game gets physical. He puts points up in the regular season based on natural skill and the often lackadaisical play of other teams. He also has a phenomenal finisher in Matthews. He's gotten paid and, in my opinion, no longer has the "want" to get down in the trenches when the playoffs require it. He also overthinks plays rather than just letting his good hockey IQ and instinct take over when a quick reaction is warranted.

I'm not concerned about Matthews but I don't think Mitch is a big gamer. I would definitely support relegating him to 2nd or 3rd line duty for at least a game.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Marner's a 2pt game away from being ppg thus series

His production looks bad only b/c of very high expectations otherwise if he goes ppg this series thats a strong performance with him driving chances on his line and killing penalties well.

Leads wrap this on satourday and I see marner ending with 6 in 6

This is become too large of a sample size.

Marner's last 3 playoffs:
17 games played, 2 goals, 10 points.

Over 82 that projects to 9 goals/47 points.

This is an 11 million dollar player. This is completely inexcusable.

I expect nothing short of a miraculous game from him tomorrow, or ship him out of town.

 

[Beyonder91]

No, I’m fed up of the lame excuses and projection insanity.

It’s far FAR past time putting up REAL results.

I'm posting facts and providing context. You are just ranting and really offering nothing of substance to the situation except stating the obvious with extreme hyperbole.

I agree we need to see more results and with the way the line is dominating the results will come.

 

[Beyonder91]

This is become too large of a sample size.

Marner's last 3 playoffs:
17 games played, 2 goals, 10 points.

Over 82 that projects to 9 goals/47 points.

This is an 11 million dollar player. This is completely inexcusable.

I expect nothing short of a miraculous game from him tomorrow, or ship him out of town.

Once again you provide ZERO context
Seems to be your MO

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Once again you provide ZERO context
Seems to be your MO

By “context” you mean “excuses” for his lack of production. Three playoffs in a row.

 

[Stephen]

Once again you provide ZERO context
Seems to be your MO

What kind of additional context would need to be provided though? A top 5 scorer, elite level superstar in the game is usually the kind of player who just jumps out at you as a purely dominant factor in a hockey game or playoff series without requiring a lot of explanation or subtlety or advanced statistical reappraisal. That bar usually looks like even a newbie who doesn’t understand the sport can easily appreciate. I think that’s kind of the bar you’d be looking for when talking about Marner or any $10 million plus player.

For example, no one needs to do any additional homework or research to highlight how elite Nikita Kucherov is. You just roll the tape and point at the playoff bracket. Isn’t that what we need from Marner (and Matthews?)

 

[Beyonder91]

What kind of additional context would need to be provided though? A top 5 scorer, elite level superstar in the game is usually the kind of player who just jumps out at you as a purely dominant factor in a hockey game or playoff series without requiring a lot of explanation or subtlety or advanced statistical reappraisal. That bar usually looks like even a newbie who doesn’t understand the sport can easily appreciate. I think that’s kind of the bar you’d be looking for when talking about Marner or any $10 million plus player.

For example:
He largely played against the best line in the league in 2017-18 & 2018-19. Also, in 2018-19 Babcock actively used his line in a shutdown role and he went even against them 5on5 in a 7 games series.
Last year was a joke of a playoffs with the players being off for months and then jumping into a bubble and play-in series (not even BO7) with zero preparation