Mitch Marner discussion continues

[Gallagbi]

1st Boston series he played with Bozak and JVR.

2nd series he was basically tasked, along with Tavares, of handling Bergeron. He lost the matchup but there were some good games in there.

He was with Marleau and Pleks/Kadri in the first Boston series.

Bokak-JVR v. Washington

 

[ER89]

Hard to believe Nylander is now hated less than Marner. Thanks Kyle, Shanny, Paul, Mitch and the rest of the Marner camp.

Remember when the guy with the A was so fking scared he put the puck over the net and the guy who marner fanboys hated on was consoling him like a leader despite not having an A and being paid less?

Man tone you hit it spot on earlier. No accountability. Imagine being a 11m bitch who withers in crucial games and then saying it was just bad luck and you intend on doing nothing different.

 

[ER89]

What we need is BabKeefe, a coach willing to play Matthews & Marner together and apart, and a coach willing to play the star forwards in the low 20 mins of ice time rather than mid 20 mins or mid teen mins.

So what you're saying is we need someone with some semblance of a brain? Bro that's way too much to ask for simmer down. /s

 

[LeafGrief]

Only real hope that I have with Marner is that his ego finally dies. I still believe that his problem is that he cares too much and simply can't handle the pressure. He's trying to make himself into a legend, but is buckling under the weight of his own expectations. When he starts struggling in the playoffs he retreats inwards and plays worse.

He needs to forget about being Doug Gilmour. That ship has sailed. He's never going to be the beloved Leafs kid any more, there's way too much history and animosity now. He can still salvage a name for himself here, but he will never be the icon that he wanted to be. Maybe he can finally see that we want him to be Mitch Marner instead of Doug Gilmour. Yeah, our Mitch Marner is overpaid and sucked in the playoffs, but he's still a good player. Build from here Mitch and be good in the next playoffs. Ditch the losers whispering bullshit in your ear. Have a funeral for your ego and just play hockey, forgetting the past.

If he can't lose the ego, he'll continue to wilt and fail in the playoffs. It's not just Dubas who's Leafs career is on the line next year's playoffs. If Marner fails again he'll be undeniably a lost cause (this post is the last of my denial) and will be traded. I don't blame Dubas for wanting to bet on the guy 4th in league scoring to figure things out, but I hope to hell that he's right because it's not what I would have done.

 

[I am Canadian]

Only real hope that I have with Marner is that his ego finally dies. I still believe that his problem is that he cares too much and simply can't handle the pressure. He's trying to make himself into a legend, but is buckling under the weight of his own expectations. When he starts struggling in the playoffs he retreats inwards and plays worse.

He needs to forget about being Doug Gilmour. That ship has sailed. He's never going to be the beloved Leafs kid any more, there's way too much history and animosity now. He can still salvage a name for himself here, but he will never be the icon that he wanted to be. Maybe he can finally see that we want him to be Mitch Marner instead of Doug Gilmour. Yeah, our Mitch Marner is overpaid and sucked in the playoffs, but he's still a good player. Build from here Mitch and be good in the next playoffs. Ditch the losers whispering bullshit in your ear. Have a funeral for your ego and just play hockey, forgetting the past.

If he can't lose the ego, he'll continue to wilt and fail in the playoffs. It's not just Dubas who's Leafs career is on the line next year's playoffs. If Marner fails again he'll be undeniably a lost cause (this post is the last of my denial) and will be traded. I don't blame Dubas for wanting to bet on the guy 4th in league scoring to figure things out, but I hope to hell that he's right because it's not what I would have done.

I disagree, if he wins up a cup there will be statues. All is forgiven if he finds success.

Just needs uninstall social media and let his team run it and focus on family like JT does.

 

[LeafGrief]

I disagree, if he wins up a cup there will be statues. All is forgiven if he finds success.

Just needs uninstall social media and let his team run it and focus on family like JT does.

I don’t think we disagree at all. He wanted to be a legend beyond reproach. He can still be that legend if he wins a cup, but the criticism and articles and calls to trade him will always be part of the legacy. He can be remembered for his redemption, but that comes with acknowledging things were bad before.

The Gilmour dream is dead. He needs to dream of being Marner.

 

[Aashir]

I disagree, if he wins up a cup there will be statues. All is forgiven if he finds success.

Just needs uninstall social media and let his team run it and focus on family like JT does.

If we win a cup, this team is gonna be glorified more than any other cup winner ever. Whether deserving or not. I can already see leafs fans claiming AM>>>CM if that happens. And saying John Tavares is one of the best signings, same with the other two. Marner and rantanen isn’t a comparison. Nylander is kessel 2.0 if he plays a similar role. Campbell/ other goalie is looked at as prime hasek mixed with Roy.

sad part is I’d love to join in on the cup talks. But right now they are further than delusions

 

[ShaneFalco]

I don’t think we disagree at all. He wanted to be a legend beyond reproach. He can still be that legend if he wins a cup, but the criticism and articles and calls to trade him will always be part of the legacy. He can be remembered for his redemption, but that comes with acknowledging things were bad before.

The Gilmour dream is dead. He needs to dream of being Marner.

Marner even speaking about Gilmour is out of line

 

[cookie]

I think that exit interview would have been over analyzed by fans overeager to find someone to pin blame on regardless. What's he supposed to say about a goalie having his and Matthews's number? Does he criticize the team not following the game plan (even if it had the lion's share of xG)? Was he ever sat in the series for poor play? Do you expect him to talk about the steps he'll be taking to minimize puck over the glass penalties? Or the powerplay-a part of the game that, if he critiqued, would lead to further questions about his relationship with his coaches, especially when you consider how much was written about him supposedly not wanting to play a certain role on the PP. He was shying away from contact and those penalties may have been/most certainly were caused by that but wouldn't a player relied upon as heavily as he is want to maintain peak playing condition? Hitting isn't part of his game and fatigue may be a reason why he couldn't out maneuver certain situations where taking a hit became necessary. There's enough blame to go around EVERYONE on and off the ice.

 

[Stephen]

Marner even speaking about Gilmour is out of line

It's actually pretty funny if you recall the Letter to Fans after he signed the deal and referenced Leaf greats like a roll call. I get being from Toronto and being educated on the history of the franchise but imagine Jesperi Kotkaniemi comparing himself to Jean Beliveau... it's just a little... premature.

 

[Trapper]

Hard to believe Nylander is now hated less than Marner. Thanks Kyle, Shanny, Paul, Mitch and the rest of the Marner camp.

If William Nylander hadn’t scored a goal in 2+ playoff years, didn’t score a PP goal all year, he’d be gone. Done. Fired into the sun. About 1% of people left would make an excuse for him but overall, finished.
Traded for whatever was left over on the market. A bag of pucks or magic beans.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Marner even speaking about Gilmour is out of line

I want Marner to switch to 93 just to watch the world burn

 

[ruaware41]

If we win a cup, this team is gonna be glorified more than any other cup winner ever. Whether deserving or not. I can already see leafs fans claiming AM>>>CM if that happens. And saying John Tavares is one of the best signings, same with the other two. Marner and rantanen isn’t a comparison. Nylander is kessel 2.0 if he plays a similar role. Campbell/ other goalie is looked at as prime hasek mixed with Roy.

sad part is I’d love to join in on the cup talks. But right now they are further than delusions

Leaf fans are stupid and disregard other teams players and overrate the fuk out of their own. Which puts unnecessary pressure on the players and inflates their egos. Enough so that they’re willing to sit out to get paid a little more

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Everyone is right in this discussion. Is Marner unfairly singled out over the team's recent failures? Yes. Is Mariner paid so much that fans should be allowed to expect more? Yes.

In my opinion, he asked for the money. So he needs to accept the the expectations that came along with that money. This applies to others BTW, I'm not singling him out.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Marner is a reg season Phenom who can't play in the big game. Now what this team needs.

 

[LeafGrief]

Marner even speaking about Gilmour is out of line

It really is. It's so ridiculous that he's set the goal of "most beloved player in franchise history" for himself. He's completely set himself up for failure. Anything less than perfection in image or play isn't good enough. It's a ridiculous mindset and instantly doomed.

The thing is, I bet he'd be totally fine if he was just setting out to pile up points and get paid every penny he could. That might be a bit frustrating for us fans, but oh well the guy at least has direction in life. It's what Matthews is doing, he's trying to fill the net and get paid for it. But Marner has to try and balance this paycheck hunting with a completely perfect image and it just doesn't work. It's innately hypocritical and the fans know it, and he knows that the fans know it. So as soon as the pressure is on and he's trying to reconcile his image with his paycheck, he's already failed his goal and he spirals downwards.

It's why his ego must die. His contract is written and he's got the talent. If the Gilmour dreams are gone and he can just play hockey and get his money he'll be okay. Sucks that we're overpaying him, but he can still be a huge force in the playoffs. If he had been a net positive against the Habs we'd have won that series. Instead he's crying in the penalty box knowing that he's in a mess of his own making. He's gotta accept where he's ended up and just focus on moving forwards. He's got the talent, but he's gotta get his head sorted out. Maddeningly, getting traded would kill the dream instantly and probably helps him figure it out. Wish there was an easy way for him to figure it out here.

 

[ShaneFalco]

It really is. It's so ridiculous that he's set the goal of "most beloved player in franchise history" for himself. He's completely set himself up for failure. Anything less than perfection in image or play isn't good enough. It's a ridiculous mindset and instantly doomed.

The thing is, I bet he'd be totally fine if he was just setting out to pile up points and get paid every penny he could. That might be a bit frustrating for us fans, but oh well the guy at least has direction in life. It's what Matthews is doing, he's trying to fill the net and get paid for it. But Marner has to try and balance this paycheck hunting with a completely perfect image and it just doesn't work. It's innately hypocritical and the fans know it, and he knows that the fans know it. So as soon as the pressure is on and he's trying to reconcile his image with his paycheck, he's already failed his goal and he spirals downwards.

It's why his ego must die. His contract is written and he's got the talent. If the Gilmour dreams are gone and he can just play hockey and get his money he'll be okay. Sucks that we're overpaying him, but he can still be a huge force in the playoffs. If he had been a net positive against the Habs we'd have won that series. Instead he's crying in the penalty box knowing that he's in a mess of his own making. He's gotta accept where he's ended up and just focus on moving forwards. He's got the talent, but he's gotta get his head sorted out. Maddeningly, getting traded would kill the dream instantly and probably helps him figure it out. Wish there was an easy way for him to figure it out here.

It is a shame. He came off as a gee shucks kinda home-town boy, and then played dumb as his team's contract negotiations were slimy and public. He shouldn't be wearing the A, and he comes off as an immature child when interviewed. He was never going to live up to that contract and he's feeling the pressure. Noone to blame but himself - and our incompetent GM who was obviously scared to lose him. But he wasn't going anywhere...... his tam bluffed, Dubas bit

 

[ShaneFalco]

Everyone is right in this discussion. Is Marner unfairly singled out over the team's recent failures? Yes. Is Mariner paid so much that fans should be allowed to expect more? Yes.

In my opinion, he asked for the money. So he needs to accept the the expectations that came along with that money. This applies to others BTW, I'm not singling him out.

Keefe should be taking some heat too, as he is
But again it makes me wonder, why didn't they take him off the PP as it was a colossal failure for so long? I have a feeling Mitch has certain demands - where to play on the PP and when. And if that's the case, the inmates are running the asylum ... again
Joe and Wayne got a free pass too.
Nylander plays his best hockey and still gets 17 min

 

[HarryLime]

Only real hope that I have with Marner is that his ego finally dies. I still believe that his problem is that he cares too much and simply can't handle the pressure. He's trying to make himself into a legend, but is buckling under the weight of his own expectations. When he starts struggling in the playoffs he retreats inwards and plays worse.

He needs to forget about being Doug Gilmour. That ship has sailed. He's never going to be the beloved Leafs kid any more, there's way too much history and animosity now. He can still salvage a name for himself here, but he will never be the icon that he wanted to be. Maybe he can finally see that we want him to be Mitch Marner instead of Doug Gilmour. Yeah, our Mitch Marner is overpaid and sucked in the playoffs, but he's still a good player. Build from here Mitch and be good in the next playoffs. Ditch the losers whispering bullshit in your ear. Have a funeral for your ego and just play hockey, forgetting the past.

If he can't lose the ego, he'll continue to wilt and fail in the playoffs. It's not just Dubas who's Leafs career is on the line next year's playoffs. If Marner fails again he'll be undeniably a lost cause (this post is the last of my denial) and will be traded. I don't blame Dubas for wanting to bet on the guy 4th in league scoring to figure things out, but I hope to hell that he's right because it's not what I would have done.

I think you have it wrong. He isn't sucking because he puts too much pressure on himself, he is sucking because he gets bullied around on the ice and can't physically stack up. His game just doesn't translate to the playoffs at all.

 

[LeafGrief]

I think you have it wrong. He isn't sucking because he puts too much pressure on himself, he is sucking because he gets bullied around on the ice and can't physically stack up. His game just doesn't translate to the playoffs at all.

Mitch Marner was 4th in league scoring this year. I do not for one single second believe that he is incapable of being effective in the playoffs. If Matt Barzal, Sebastian Aho, and Brayden Point, are all capable of being impact players in the playoffs, Marner can do it. Hell, Nylander finally figured it out, Marner absolutely should.

Marner put up 9 points in 7 games against the Bruins as a sophomore. He absolutely can play and thrive in the playoffs. Maybe he won’t be Paul Kariya, but he can at least score some goals and not get 17 puck over the glass penalties.

I think it’s ridiculous to suggest that a first team all star’s game isn’t suited for the playoffs. Certainly not to the point that he’d go from top of the league in scoring to complete non factor. The playoffs aren’t THAT physical.

 

[ToneDog]

Mitch Marner was 4th in league scoring this year. I do not for one single second believe that he is incapable of being effective in the playoffs. If Matt Barzal, Sebastian Aho, and Brayden Point, are all capable of being impact players in the playoffs, Marner can do it. Hell, Nylander finally figured it out, Marner absolutely should.

Marner put up 9 points in 7 games against the Bruins as a sophomore. He absolutely can play and thrive in the playoffs. Maybe he won’t be Paul Kariya, but he can at least score some goals and not get 17 puck over the glass penalties.

I think it’s ridiculous to suggest that a first team all star’s game isn’t suited for the playoffs. Certainly not to the point that he’d go from top of the league in scoring to complete non factor. The playoffs aren’t THAT physical.

How does Marner's shot compare to Aho's, Barzal's, Point's and Nylander's. Therein lies the problem IMO. Weak shot and seldom plays in the dirty areas. Needs Matty to produce to be successful point wise.

 

[HarryLime]

Mitch Marner was 4th in league scoring this year. I do not for one single second believe that he is incapable of being effective in the playoffs. If Matt Barzal, Sebastian Aho, and Brayden Point, are all capable of being impact players in the playoffs, Marner can do it. Hell, Nylander finally figured it out, Marner absolutely should.

Marner put up 9 points in 7 games against the Bruins as a sophomore. He absolutely can play and thrive in the playoffs. Maybe he won’t be Paul Kariya, but he can at least score some goals and not get 17 puck over the glass penalties.

I think it’s ridiculous to suggest that a first team all star’s game isn’t suited for the playoffs. Certainly not to the point that he’d go from top of the league in scoring to complete non factor. The playoffs aren’t THAT physical.

He can take his first team all star selection and shove it. Would be the only time he shoved something back tbh. He was physically neutured by the Jackets and Habs. Those other players you posted don't rely on open space as much as marner does. The book is out on him and he plays into the opponents hands. It was really embarrassing to watch it happen again after Columbus. Based on his exit interview, he seems to think he did nothing wrong and it was just bad luck so his attitude sucks too.

 

[LeafGrief]

How does Marner's shot compare to Aho's, Barzal's, Point's and Nylander's. Therein lies the problem IMO. Weak shot and seldom plays in the dirty areas. Needs Matty to produce to be successful point wise.

Guy scores 20 goals in 55 games during the regular season. We all wish he had a better shot, but a ~25 goal scorer doesn't go completely dry for three years of playoffs in a row because of some magical playoff barrier. Same with going to the scoring areas. If you can dance through defenders all season and get yourself into 4th in league scoring by being mega talented, you should be able to at least put some goals and points on the board in the playoffs. Doesn't have to be the same number of points, scoring is expected to go down when teams are more committed defensively and playing intensely, but it is still hockey at the end of the day. He should be able to bring his own intensity to match.

Like, I really think all this stuff about the playoffs being different is nonsense. The stars in the regular season are the stars in the post season. Once in a while you'll get a player like Justin Williams who really raises his game, or you'll get a player like Marner who fails. But for 99% of the players in the league the playoffs is just a more intense version of the same game. Marner's game is good enough to succeed in the playoffs, he just needs to actually play it.

 

[LeafGrief]

He can take his first team all star selection and shove it. Would be the only time he shoved something back tbh. He was physically neutured by the Jackets and Habs. Those other players you posted don't rely on open space as much as marner does. The book is out on him and he plays into the opponents hands. It was really embarrassing to watch it happen again after Columbus. Based on his exit interview, he seems to think he did nothing wrong and it was just bad luck so his attitude sucks too.

Yeah his attitude is trash, but his game and talent level is all about creating his own space. It obviously didn't work, but if I can turn on the TV and watch Point and Barzal and Aho and all those guys creating their own space I absolutely wonder what the hell Marner is doing. If all the other guys can make their games work, don't tell me that Marner plays the game wrong. Tell me that he just f***in wilts and doesn't even play his own game. Yeah, he gets bullied and is useless in the playoffs. That's a problem with him, not the way he plays the game. All the other guys who play the game his way are doing just fine, Marner's problems are his own, not the way he plays.

 

[tronoleaf]

Here's Mitch crying in the playoffs cuz he shot the puck over the glass this is the "man" that we signed for $11M