Mitch Marner discussion continues

[Rare Jewel]

Hard to believe Nylander is now hated less than Marner. Thanks Kyle, Shanny, Paul, Mitch and the rest of the Marner camp.

Well relative to his contract he performed worse. Also it's interesting that's played with Matthews is the one that is the focus.

I suppose against Columbus they were both pretty off.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Someone on Twitter mailed it:
Giving Robin Batman money was a mistake from the get-go. No matter how hard he tries, he will never be the Caped crusader; I’m beyond ready for a significant shakeup.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Someone on Twitter mailed it:
Giving Robin Batman money was a mistake from the get-go. No matter how hard he tries, he will never be the Caped crusader; I’m beyond ready for a significant shakeup.

This guy's fault. He ruins everything!

 

[saffronleaf]

good time to come on here and bash Marner.

Marner sucks. Trade him.

 

[Stephen]

Someone on Twitter mailed it:
Giving Robin Batman money was a mistake from the get-go. No matter how hard he tries, he will never be the Caped crusader; I’m beyond ready for a significant shakeup.

I think that was me!

The other funny Marner comment was on Maple Leaf Hotstove when the comment was made that at the season ending press conference Marner had the body language and attitude of a “teenager who crashed dads car.” And that is aesthetically a big reason why Leaf Nation is so upset with his performance.

 

[saffronleaf]

This guy's fault. He ruins everything!

Looks like any other long-term Leafs fan to me.

 

[Curt]

Here's Mitch crying in the playoffs cuz he shot the puck over the glass this is the "man" that we signed for $11M

He’s such a selfish clown. Can’t wait til this season is over and this loser gets traded

 

[saffronleaf]

Only real hope that I have with Marner is that his ego finally dies. I still believe that his problem is that he cares too much and simply can't handle the pressure. He's trying to make himself into a legend, but is buckling under the weight of his own expectations. When he starts struggling in the playoffs he retreats inwards and plays worse.

He needs to forget about being Doug Gilmour. That ship has sailed. He's never going to be the beloved Leafs kid any more, there's way too much history and animosity now. He can still salvage a name for himself here, but he will never be the icon that he wanted to be. Maybe he can finally see that we want him to be Mitch Marner instead of Doug Gilmour. Yeah, our Mitch Marner is overpaid and sucked in the playoffs, but he's still a good player. Build from here Mitch and be good in the next playoffs. Ditch the losers whispering bullshit in your ear. Have a funeral for your ego and just play hockey, forgetting the past.

If he can't lose the ego, he'll continue to wilt and fail in the playoffs. It's not just Dubas who's Leafs career is on the line next year's playoffs. If Marner fails again he'll be undeniably a lost cause (this post is the last of my denial) and will be traded. I don't blame Dubas for wanting to bet on the guy 4th in league scoring to figure things out, but I hope to hell that he's right because it's not what I would have done.

He needs to do DMT

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Da times I have seen Mitch perform best in playoffs over da years whether minor hockey or junior he had a BIG tough guy running around opening up ice for him .. we really could use a C or LW with speed and size who plays on edge and who tries to hurt people .. and then a sniper .. it gets much harder for a D to focus on Mitch when he is getting run at .. gives Mitch some more ice and do creative things .. he can't create that ice on his own as he lacks both speed and a shot

 

[PromisedLand]

Someone on Twitter mailed it:
Giving Robin Batman money was a mistake from the get-go. No matter how hard he tries, he will never be the Caped crusader; I’m beyond ready for a significant shakeup.

he is not even robin caliber. he is like the guy who knows a guy who knows robin but has no clue about batman

 

[PromisedLand]

Only real hope that I have with Marner is that his ego finally dies. I still believe that his problem is that he cares too much and simply can't handle the pressure. He's trying to make himself into a legend, but is buckling under the weight of his own expectations. When he starts struggling in the playoffs he retreats inwards and plays worse.

He needs to forget about being Doug Gilmour. That ship has sailed. He's never going to be the beloved Leafs kid any more, there's way too much history and animosity now. He can still salvage a name for himself here, but he will never be the icon that he wanted to be. Maybe he can finally see that we want him to be Mitch Marner instead of Doug Gilmour. Yeah, our Mitch Marner is overpaid and sucked in the playoffs, but he's still a good player. Build from here Mitch and be good in the next playoffs. Ditch the losers whispering bullshit in your ear. Have a funeral for your ego and just play hockey, forgetting the past.

If he can't lose the ego, he'll continue to wilt and fail in the playoffs. It's not just Dubas who's Leafs career is on the line next year's playoffs. If Marner fails again he'll be undeniably a lost cause (this post is the last of my denial) and will be traded. I don't blame Dubas for wanting to bet on the guy 4th in league scoring to figure things out, but I hope to hell that he's right because it's not what I would have done.

Are you talking about the guy who whined to Dougie after he was asked to play on the 4th line?

Or the guy who wanted the "A" because Auston got one? This is Matthews' team and he will be a captain here if he re-signs. then what? Are the leafs going to run two captains?

It's the same guy that said he did nothing wrong this playoffs and is quoted as admitting he did not come prepared to play in the CBJ series. How can one justify invest 11M per year of capspace for this guy? While there is nothing left for other players. The other players either live on scraps or go someplace else. Is this how you build a team for success?

 

[tronoleaf]

The Gilmour thing is so stupid.

One, during Gilmour's epic 1993 season, Marner still wouldn't be born for another 4 years.

Two, I could have sworn that, during the pre-draft interview process, Marner said his favourite team as a kid was the Penguins.

I **** hate him.

 

[PromisedLand]

This guy's fault. He ruins everything!

I got proof too

 

[LeafGrief]

Are you talking about the guy who whined to Dougie after he was asked to play on the 4th line?

Or the guy who wanted the "A" because Auston got one? This is Matthews' team and he will be a captain here if he re-signs. then what? Are the leafs going to run two captains?

It's the same guy that said he did nothing wrong this playoffs and is quoted as admitting he did not come prepared to play in the CBJ series. How can one justify invest 11M per year of capspace for this guy? While there is nothing left for other players. The other players either live on scraps or go someplace else. Is this how you build a team for success?

Yeah I'm talking about that guy. If he was doing all that stuff and honest with himself about it I think he'd be a bit of a pain in the ass, but he could at least still put up some points in the playoffs. The problem with him is that he's doing all that crap while pretending that he's a little angel who we'll all love like Dougie. If he was honest with himself he'd probably at least be an effective player in the playoffs. Instead he's caught living his own lie and it makes him a headcase who flounders when the pressure is on.

Understand that I'm not making excuses for Marner or even defending him at all. I'm trying to explore WHY he's such a headcase and how he can maybe fix his own issues. If the Islanders can pay Ladd 4.4m to sit in the pressbox and still go to the cup finals, if the Blues can win a cup with 12m going to Steen and Bozak, or the Bruins can play that series with Backes making 5m, we can afford to overpay Marner by a few million bucks. It won't sink us. But we do need him to be an actual effective player. He's been godawful in the playoffs for three years in a row, which is actually astounding that a player with his talent could suck that much. If he played like a 9m player and was paid like an 11m player, we'd have won our series against Montreal. Instead he's created this tornado of shit in his mind and ends up playing like absolute garbage in the playoffs. We can't win if he's going to play like garbage, but we can win if he plays like Mitch Marner.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yeah I'm talking about that guy. If he was doing all that stuff and honest with himself about it I think he'd be a bit of a pain in the ass, but he could at least still put up some points in the playoffs. The problem with him is that he's doing all that crap while pretending that he's a little angel who we'll all love like Dougie. If he was honest with himself he'd probably at least be an effective player in the playoffs. Instead he's caught living his own lie and it makes him a headcase who flounders when the pressure is on.

Understand that I'm not making excuses for Marner or even defending him at all. I'm trying to explore WHY he's such a headcase and how he can maybe fix his own issues. If the Islanders can pay Ladd 4.4m to sit in the pressbox and still go to the cup finals, if the Blues can win a cup with 12m going to Steen and Bozak, or the Bruins can play that series with Backes making 5m, we can afford to overpay Marner by a few million bucks. It won't sink us. But we do need him to be an actual effective player. He's been godawful in the playoffs for three years in a row, which is actually astounding that a player with his talent could suck that much. If he played like a 9m player and was paid like an 11m player, we'd have won our series against Montreal. Instead he's created this tornado of shit in his mind and ends up playing like absolute garbage in the playoffs. We can't win if he's going to play like garbage, but we can win if he plays like Mitch Marner.

I have gotta disagree here. I don't think there is any "honesty" in the Marner gene. He scraped as much money as he could. He plays the victim card when tough questions are posed. Does not take any responsibility.

In game 6 there was no one even near him and he put habs on a 5 on 3 PP by throwing the puck over the glass. This just tells me that he was looking forward to his vacation not to go deep in the playoffs. Focused players don't make dumbass mistakes like that. No the puck wasn't rolling, he wan't being rushed or pressured. Then in game 7 he gives away the puck only for the habs to score (game was tied 0-0).

People that want to be beloved do not make such mistakes; Matthews hardly made any defensive mistakes or stupid plays. How to you justify his contract when he gets out competed by 5'9 gallagher and two rookies in suzuki and caufield.

I think marner is all about money. He got paid and he doesn't give a flying F. He just wants the regular season to be done and over with so he can pretend to play in the playoffs and then go about spending his millions in teh summer. Dont take my word for it plenty of stories on how he was posting vacation pictures on instagram and then took it down after backlash from leafs fans

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

The coach plays Marner the most minutes on the team, in all situations, no matter how he does. His GM publicly shields him from any criticism, going as far as calling it idiotic and impossible to understand. His inner circle and agent demand the organization treat him as the franchise cornerstone and bow to every one of his demands. Is it any wonder that he feels emboldened enough to state publicly that he wouldn't do anything differently after scoring zero goals in a playoff series yet again? The last time he felt disrespected, he tried to force his way out. It's time for the team to stop letting him hold them hostage, because he's not going to hold up to his end of the bargain and live up to his contract

 

[Antropovsky]

Here's Mitch crying in the playoffs cuz he shot the puck over the glass this is the "man" that we signed for $11M

The shot over the glass shows his immaturity and selfishness.... the amount of time he took to corral the puck and throw it into the air he could've easily simply dumped it by just slapping into open territory but instead he had be "extra" as usual and try to impress everyone with his ability to toss it high up in the air.

Recommend turning the volume off on the clip

[YT]

 

[Racer88]

Guy scores 20 goals in 55 games during the regular season. We all wish he had a better shot, but a ~25 goal scorer doesn't go completely dry for three years of playoffs in a row because of some magical playoff barrier. Same with going to the scoring areas. If you can dance through defenders all season and get yourself into 4th in league scoring by being mega talented, you should be able to at least put some goals and points on the board in the playoffs. Doesn't have to be the same number of points, scoring is expected to go down when teams are more committed defensively and playing intensely, but it is still hockey at the end of the day. He should be able to bring his own intensity to match.

Like, I really think all this stuff about the playoffs being different is nonsense. The stars in the regular season are the stars in the post season. Once in a while you'll get a player like Justin Williams who really raises his game, or you'll get a player like Marner who fails. But for 99% of the players in the league the playoffs is just a more intense version of the same game. Marner's game is good enough to succeed in the playoffs, he just needs to actually play it.

If he is good enough to succeed then why doesn’t he do it?
Lack of commitment, lack of effort?

 

[Racer88]

The shot over the glass shows his immaturity and selfishness.... the amount of time he took to corral the puck and throw it into the air he could've easily simply dumped it by just slapping into open territory but instead he had be "extra" as usual and try to impress everyone with his ability to toss it high up in the air.

Recommend turning the volume off on the clip

[YT]

The language is a little rough but this guy is exactly correct and this sort of thing is why Marner isn’t worth close to his contract and because of that deserves all the crap he is getting……….11 million dollars…….my God Dubas, really !!

 

[LeafGrief]

I have gotta disagree here. I don't think there is any "honesty" in the Marner gene. He scraped as much money as he could. He plays the victim card when tough questions are posed. Does not take any responsibility.

In game 6 there was no one even near him and he put habs on a 5 on 3 PP by throwing the puck over the glass. This just tells me that he was looking forward to his vacation not to go deep in the playoffs. Focused players don't make dumbass mistakes like that. No the puck wasn't rolling, he wan't being rushed or pressured. Then in game 7 he gives away the puck only for the habs to score (game was tied 0-0).

People that want to be beloved do not make such mistakes; Matthews hardly made any defensive mistakes or stupid plays. How to you justify his contract when he gets out competed by 5'9 gallagher and two rookies in suzuki and caufield.

I think marner is all about money. He got paid and he doesn't give a flying F. He just wants the regular season to be done and over with so he can pretend to play in the playoffs and then go about spending his millions in teh summer. Dont take my word for it plenty of stories on how he was posting vacation pictures on instagram and then took it down after backlash from leafs fans

Huh? Okay sure you think he's a huge asshole, that's cool man. I think he's an asshole too. But you're not really talking to me here, you're just telling me that you think he's an asshole. What I'm trying to tell you is that it doesn't matter if he's an asshole or not. The league is full of assholes and they fill the net in the playoffs and then go home and continue being assholes. He can be all about the money if he wants, there are tons of guys in the league who are after money but they're still able to play somewhat quality hockey in the playoffs.

I will push back on your argument about him not caring and flipping the puck over the glass because he wants to go on vacation. You can see on the last page the screenshot of him crying in the penalty box. For a guy who's all about money, he knows that the fastest way to even more money is to win big in the playoffs. He won't sign a 100m sponsorship to sell Muskoka chairs, he gets the big bucks if this team wins. He'll make a million dollars an appearance after he retires if he can win a cup. If he doesn't win shit and gets traded and spends the rest of his career in New Jersey he's leaving tens of millions of dollars in career earnings on the table. If he's all about the money he's terrible at being all about the money.

You don't cry in the penalty box because you're excited about going to the cottage soon. You cry in the penalty box for a very, very different set of reasons. People who are beloved don't flip the puck over the glass in stupid plays, but a guy who wants to be loved and is failing is the kind of guy who ends up crying in the penalty box.

I'm not trying to justify Marner's contract at all. The guy is overpaid and if I was GM I would have traded him this summer. I don't know if he can salvage his career here. All of my posts in this thread are about how he's an absolute headcase. I'm just trying to discuss whether he can sort himself out or not. None of what I've said about him is remotely positive, but I am assuming that he's a failure instead of an outright malicious agent. He can be a dishonest little puke all he likes, but he should at least be honest enough with himself that he can let some pressure off so he can not fold in the playoffs and score some goals to secure a 10m Gatorade sponsorship or something.

 

[HarryLime]

Yeah his attitude is trash, but his game and talent level is all about creating his own space. It obviously didn't work, but if I can turn on the TV and watch Point and Barzal and Aho and all those guys creating their own space I absolutely wonder what the hell Marner is doing. If all the other guys can make their games work, don't tell me that Marner plays the game wrong. Tell me that he just f***in wilts and doesn't even play his own game. Yeah, he gets bullied and is useless in the playoffs. That's a problem with him, not the way he plays the game. All the other guys who play the game his way are doing just fine, Marner's problems are his own, not the way he plays.

Nah Point is a different beast. I appreciate your dedication but marner was so bad for the last 2 series I refuse to lump him in with other players that are similar size and just assume he will figure it out because he has magic moves. His game is anemic out there and the only positive thing I can say is that he is a good penalty killer. He was getting pushed around and trying to 1 man deke around the Jackets/Habs repeatedly and it only lead to giveaways and him ending up flat on the ice watching the other team score on you know, basic rush chances where they throw the puck at the net. I don't see him changing his game and unlike Nylander, his shot is terrible so he doesn't have the fallback. If he was being paid a fair amount I wouldn't be so harsh but he literally screwed the team over with his contract and crippled them for years. At least if Nylander has a bad series he is being paid fairly. Marner was supposed to be the home town kid who was all heart and soul, then he revealed his true character, starting with the contract negotiations. Commanding more than Patty Kane who delivered 3 cups to Chicago with some of the most clutch plays of the 21st century. We got the store brand version of Kane, for more $$ and less heart. I will never understand how anyone can defend him based on regular season point totals anymore. He is the reason the team choked down a 3-1 series to our biggest rival. It is rock botton for the team and he wears the blame. If he at least sucked it up and wore it during the post interviews, that would be encouraging but he didn't even 1 little bit. So I'm done with the punk. He can score 100 points next season and it means nothing.

 

[LeafGrief]

If he is good enough to succeed then why doesn’t he do it?
Lack of commitment, lack of effort?

Because he has placed unbearable amounts of pressure on himself, in terms of expectations. He fails because he is far too weak mentally to live up to his own expectations. His own expectations are what led to him fighting for his stupid contract and in turn fueled our expectations. He does not have the mental strength to handle the combined expectations, all of which he created.

His failure is 100% his fault. He fails because he is weak mentally. I believe that he is so scared of his own failure that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It's actually pretty common for humans to self sabotage like that. Mitch Marner is absolutely good enough at the actual game of hockey that he can produce points in the playoffs. But when the going gets tough he gets so far deep into his own little shitstorm instead of just playing some freaking hockey. He fails because he is a basket case, not because he doesn't know the secrets of how to play hockey.

 

[PromisedLand]

Huh? Okay sure you think he's a huge asshole, that's cool man. I think he's an asshole too. But you're not really talking to me here, you're just telling me that you think he's an asshole. What I'm trying to tell you is that it doesn't matter if he's an asshole or not. The league is full of assholes and they fill the net in the playoffs and then go home and continue being assholes. He can be all about the money if he wants, there are tons of guys in the league who are after money but they're still able to play somewhat quality hockey in the playoffs.

I will push back on your argument about him not caring and flipping the puck over the glass because he wants to go on vacation. You can see on the last page the screenshot of him crying in the penalty box. For a guy who's all about money, he knows that the fastest way to even more money is to win big in the playoffs. He won't sign a 100m sponsorship to sell Muskoka chairs, he gets the big bucks if this team wins. He'll make a million dollars an appearance after he retires if he can win a cup. If he doesn't win shit and gets traded and spends the rest of his career in New Jersey he's leaving tens of millions of dollars in career earnings on the table. If he's all about the money he's terrible at being all about the money.

You don't cry in the penalty box because you're excited about going to the cottage soon. You cry in the penalty box for a very, very different set of reasons. People who are beloved don't flip the puck over the glass in stupid plays, but a guy who wants to be loved and is failing is the kind of guy who ends up crying in the penalty box.

I'm not trying to justify Marner's contract at all. The guy is overpaid and if I was GM I would have traded him this summer. I don't know if he can salvage his career here. All of my posts in this thread are about how he's an absolute headcase. I'm just trying to discuss whether he can sort himself out or not. None of what I've said about him is remotely positive, but I am assuming that he's a failure instead of an outright malicious agent. He can be a dishonest little puke all he likes, but he should at least be honest enough with himself that he can let some pressure off so he can not fold in the playoffs and score some goals to secure a 10m Gatorade sponsorship or something.

Personally I don't care if he is an asshole as long as he is contributing to Leafs success. Which he is not and is taking away significant proportion of th cap.

As per your "marner cares" comments... yea... this picture shows how much he cares

There were other vacation pictures he was posting. I dont have time to look for it. If you are curious google and satisfy your own curiosity

 

[LeafGrief]

Nah Point is a different beast. I appreciate your dedication but marner was so bad for the last 2 series I refuse to lump him in with other players that are similar size and just assume he will figure it out because he has magic moves. His game is anemic out there and the only positive thing I can say is that he is a good penalty killer. He was getting pushed around and trying to 1 man deke around the Jackets/Habs repeatedly and it only lead to giveaways and him ending up flat on the ice watching the other team score on you know, basic rush chances where they throw the puck at the net. I don't see him changing his game and unlike Nylander, his shot is terrible so he doesn't have the fallback. If he was being paid a fair amount I wouldn't be so harsh but he literally screwed the team over with his contract and crippled them for years. At least if Nylander has a bad series he is being paid fairly. Marner was supposed to be the home town kid who was all heart and soul, then he revealed his true character when he got paid. and off the ice he is everything a hockey player shouldn't be. I will never understand how anyone can defend him based on regular season point totals anymore. He is the reason the team choked down a 3-1 series to our biggest rival. It is rock botton for the team and he wears the blame.

I'm not trying to defend Marner at all. I am arguing that he fails in the playoffs because he is a mental basket case.

In the regular season he creates so much time and space for himself and all of the big physical teams and defensemen are completely unable to touch him. When he's relaxed he's electric and the exact opposite of anemic. Yeah, the playoffs are intense but they're not some magical different sport. It's still hockey at the end of the day and if Marner was capable of raising his own intensity he'd have no trouble succeeding. Nothing about the way that he actually plays hockey is what is holding him back. Muffin shooters can score in the playoffs because muffins still go in. Small guys can still score because defenders still get beat. Nobody expects him to score at the same rate from the regular season, defenses do tighten up, but I just don't believe that playoff hockey is that fundamentally different that a 90 point player is suddenly replacement level. Marner seems to pretty much completely forget how to play hockey in the playoffs because as soon as the playoffs start he turns into this terrible basket case and the 90 point winger we're paying 11m for completely disappears.

In particular, I want to emphasize that I really, 100% completely agree with your final two sentences.

He is the reason the team choked down a 3-1 series to our biggest rival. It is rock botton for the team and he wears the blame.

100% yes. I am absolutely, completely, and utterly in agreement with you on that. I am just looking at the WHY from a different angle than you are. WHY does he suck so much in the playoffs? Because I don't think that we can blame it on the playoffs being different, I think we have to blame it on him for being too weak mentally to even play his own game in the playoffs.

 

[HarryLime]

Personally I don't care if he is an asshole as long as he is contributing to Leafs success. Which he is not and is taking away significant proportion of th cap.

As per your "marner cares" comments... yea... this picture shows how much he cares

There were other vacation pictures he was posting. I dont have time to look for it. If you are curious google and satisfy your own curiosity

I'll be back to watching the team when he's gone. Don't wanna watch his pansy *** again.