Mitch Marner discussion continues

[leafsfan5]

He’s a 90pt player when paired with a franchise C. 60pt player without. He’s not Kane…

He’s been at a 90 point pace since the all star break in 2017-2018

his centers during that time were Bozak or Kadri

 

[Stephen]

He’s been at a 90 point pace since the all star break in 2017-2018

his centers during that time were Bozak or Kadri

We should consider putting him with a third line center and another body to make him earn his paycheque. If this guy is Adam Oates Jr and can go at a 90 point pace with Bozak and Kadri, I'd be willing to take a hair cut if he could turn Kerfoot into a 50 point player. Why don't we use him to turn less productive players into viable scorers? Surely our two $11 million centers can look after themselves or share Nylander or whatever.

 

[leafsfan5]

We should consider putting him with a third line center and another body to make him earn his paycheque. If this guy is Adam Oates Jr and can go at a 90 point pace with Bozak and Kadri, I'd be willing to take a hair cut if he could turn Kerfoot into a 50 point player. Why don't we use him to turn less productive players into viable scorers? Surely our two $11 million centers can look after themselves or share Nylander or whatever.

I agree 100%. If we’re going to run with this salary structure we should have our 11 million dollar players driving their own lines. That way Mitch can even get favourable matchups in the playoffs

I don’t think Keefe goes for it though unfortunately

 

[Stonehands1990]

He’s been at a 90 point pace since the all star break in 2017-2018

his centers during that time were Bozak or Kadri

If we’re using seasons before Tavares joined the team then it’s important to factor in the Matthews was drawing the top shutdown units

 

[Stonehands1990]

I agree 100%. If we’re going to run with this salary structure we should have our 11 million dollar players driving their own lines. That way Mitch can even get favourable matchups in the playoffs

I don’t think Keefe goes for it though unfortunately

12-34-88 - bonafide 1 line
65-91-11 - Tavares excels with grinders
89-15-16 - Marner feeding 89s big shot

Keefe is an absolute moron who can’t construct a lineup however

 

[hobarth]

I feel that everyone is thinking TO has the newest Craig Janney, another immensely talented player who wasn't the type of player you would expect to be instrumental in the playoffs. Janney had decent to exceptional playoff stats to go along with great regular season stats but he and the playoffs didn't go together well.

We can all remember Mitch the Warrior, throwing his body onto the ice to block pucks, going into the corners to fight for pucks and winning sometimes, that was youthful enthusiasm and proof that he was committed to winning at all costs.

Then the last year of his ELC he changed, no longer was he the Warrior but his skill was abundantly clear until the stretch run when the going gets tough, he wasn't able or willing to be as productive as he was earlier in the year. On top of this the happy go lucky, singing with and grooving to the music Mitch wasn't there anymore.

That last ELC year when LL was still there might have been preying on his mind, LL wasn't willing to give him bonuses and that was often mentioned by the press, throw something like that in your face enough often enough and it has to bother. On top of that the press constantly mulled the probable value of AM's contract while considering Mitch's value to be considerably less, Mitch finished in the top 5 scorers in the NHL this year and forumites and the press continue to question his value.

Mitch was willing to sign with Columbus with term being a major factor, I doubt happy go lucky Mitch would've even considered signing with another team, Columbus wanted more term and if they had agreed to Mitch's terms I'm sure he'd be gone.

I loved Mitch in his first 2 years, I want him back but he might have become a player that needs to be moved to rekindle his enthusiasm.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

12-34-88 - bonafide 1 line
65-91-11 - Tavares excels with grinders
89-15-16 - Marner feeding 89s big shot

Keefe is an absolute moron who can’t construct a lineup however

I really dig this. If you need a goal (in the regular season) you can pair up Matthews with Marner and JT with Nylander. If you need a goal in the playoffs you just bench Mitchy and hope you get it. Like others have said 11 million dollar players need to make ok players into pieces that can contribute.

 

[Stonehands1990]

I really dig this. If you need a goal (in the regular season) you can pair up Matthews with Marner and JT with Nylander. If you need a goal in the playoffs you just bench Mitchy and hope you get it. Like others have said 11 million dollar players need to make ok players into pieces that can contribute.

Wish we got Q. I saw Barkov carry Verhaeghe & Marchment to be a decent 1st line while huberdeau made the 2nd line dangerous

there’s only 1 puck on the ice you don’t need loaded up lines

 

[Notsince67]

....well?

Sorry...missed the goal from point. 0% shooting....well?

 

[leafsfan5]

If we’re using seasons before Tavares joined the team then it’s important to factor in the Matthews was drawing the top shutdown units

I think that's fine and should be noted by the coaching staff. If we somewhat shelter Mitch on the third line he'll get easier matchups and will be able to feast. Matthews can draw the top units and still potentially be successful imo

 

[Stonehands1990]

I think that's fine and should be noted by the coaching staff. If we somewhat shelter Mitch on the third line he'll get easier matchups and will be able to feast. Matthews can draw the top units and still potentially be successful imo

Just like Pittsburgh did with Kessel the first cup run

unfortunately Keefe is very poor at constructing a lineup. A few posts up I posted what I believe to be a very balanced and dangerous lineup

 

[Antropovsky]

Pretty sure girls hockey gets more physical then Leafs hockey. I'm serious... Marner and Nylander make Kessel look like George Parros.

Team needs to add toughness in a bad way...

 

[HarryLime]

marner is everything you don't want in a leader/top player. Not even going to get into the contract negotiations because that is really all you need to know about the individual.

for this team to ever go on a cup run you can't be lead by a dude with as many bad traits as he has. It trickles down to everyone else. I would hate to be a 3rd/4th line guy watching this dude soak everything up when things are going well and turtle when things get physical. He's not a hockey player at all. He's a skills guy that gets exposed time and time again. For real, moving him for nothing would benefit the Leafs 100%. You gotta stop thinking "well we'd get back bad value" nah, getting literally anything would help the team. It's like Duchene getting moved from the Avs. Both guys created a toxic culture and others bloomed when they left. Everything went through both and it doesn't work when you need to win. marner is also a brat with a piss poor attitude. What's the benefit to having him here? We've made the playoffs 5 times. I'd rather just not have the little weasel and try to make it and if they did, instantly be tougher to face in a series. We'd have cap space too if he was moved and we could even donate his equipment to some under privileged pee wee organizations.

 

[HellasLEAF]

nailed it

Somehow playoff performance/intangibles never made it into contract negotiations. Or the fact that he can't shoot, score, has no real speed/acceleration, doesn't win battles, can't play C or win face-offs, is soft, doesn't hit, bails out, and looks to be bit of a diva. Just 'points' and the fact he can play the pk. Somehow they concluded he should make a hair less than Auston Matthews MY WORD.

 

[Trapper]

Somehow playoff performance/intangibles never made it into contract negotiations. Or the fact that he can't shoot, score, has no real speed/acceleration, doesn't win battles, can't play C or win face-offs, is soft, doesn't hit, bails out, and looks to be bit of a diva. Just 'points' and the fact he can play the pk. Somehow they concluded he should make a hair less than Auston Matthews MY WORD.

And again that’s not even for a full 8 years.
That’s condensed money to walk to UFA as soon as possible.
Dubas has lined all 3 up for maximum gain.

 

[saffronleaf]

marner is everything you don't want in a leader/top player. Not even going to get into the contract negotiations because that is really all you need to know about the individual.

for this team to ever go on a cup run you can't be lead by a dude with as many bad traits as he has. It trickles down to everyone else. I would hate to be a 3rd/4th line guy watching this dude soak everything up when things are going well and turtle when things get physical. He's not a hockey player at all. He's a skills guy that gets exposed time and time again. For real, moving him for nothing would benefit the Leafs 100%. You gotta stop thinking "well we'd get back bad value" nah, getting literally anything would help the team. It's like Duchene getting moved from the Avs. Both guys created a toxic culture and others bloomed when they left. Everything went through both and it doesn't work when you need to win. marner is also a brat with a piss poor attitude. What's the benefit to having him here? We've made the playoffs 5 times. I'd rather just not have the little weasel and try to make it and if they did, instantly be tougher to face in a series. We'd have cap space too if he was moved and we could even donate his equipment to some under privileged pee wee organizations.

@stickty111 was right, at least in the playoffs, losing Marner is addition by subtraction.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Sorry but Marner has 1 goal in 3 years of playoffs and is paid 11 million dollars……..just not good enough

I can't believe I have to explain this but, contracts are signed because of regular season play not the playoffs. 82 games is a much bigger sample size than 4-7 and when a player puts up as many points as Marner gets, he'll get paid. This isn't EA's NHL where you can sign great players for a bucket of pucks and override trades

 

[nuck]

We should consider putting him with a third line center and another body to make him earn his paycheque. If this guy is Adam Oates Jr and can go at a 90 point pace with Bozak and Kadri, I'd be willing to take a hair cut if he could turn Kerfoot into a 50 point player. Why don't we use him to turn less productive players into viable scorers? Surely our two $11 million centers can look after themselves or share Nylander or whatever.

That has always been the point. Why have Marner with Matthews when AM can shoot 18.2% beside Willie? If you have players that are genuinely elite there is a diminishing return playing them together. Also with an extreme pass first player like Marner and a shooter like Matthews it allows the opposition to cheat because they know what Mitch will try to do most of the time.

I think they need to go back to Willie and AM, and Mitch and JT and regularly throw in splitting them up onto three lines to get around adverse line matching. I have a feeling that Keefe's usage may have been Dubas design more than his own. The anti-Babcock deployment where you try to make your top players into a battering ram rather than win with the whole lineup.

 

[Craig Button]

12-34-88 - bonafide 1 line
65-91-11 - Tavares excels with grinders
89-15-16 - Marner feeding 89s big shot

Keefe is an absolute moron who can’t construct a lineup however

lol.
That’s a horrible line.

people were bitching all season about Tavares being unproductive 5x5.

imagine a full season with this crappy line

 

[IPS]

Sorry...missed the goal from point. 0% shooting....well?

Tampa's top line sure had trouble producing offense against playoff Price

 

[Notsince67]

Tampa's top line sure had trouble producing offense against playoff Price

Funny how you make a claim that Point would maintain a 25% to 35% shooting percentage against price, he scores zero and then you bust my balls over it. I would have kept by mouth shut and looked for a larger sample size than 1 game but I suppose its possible that you want to put this outrageous claim to bed early by trying to spin it as something like I believed that the Habs would win by shutout. The leafs won game 2 by 5-1 so I'm not sure your attempts at deflection will work.

 

[IPS]

Funny how you make a claim that Point would maintain a 25% to 35% shooting percentage against price, he scores zero and then you bust my balls over it. I would have kept by mouth shut and looked for a larger sample size than 1 game but I suppose its possible that you want to put this outrageous claim to bed early by trying to spin it as something like I believed that the Habs would win by shutout. The leafs won game 2 by 5-1 so I'm not sure your attempts at deflection will work.

You discontinued our last discussion after I brought up Korpisalo from last year whom Point had no issues cracking and Marner shot another goose egg against.

Just curious what the next round of excuses is going to be when Tampa's stars finish destroying another goalie that had Leafs fans bending over backwards making excuses for their $11M players again.

 

[wingman75]

I know what you mean. Great player, but I feel like he just sort of expects himself to be the saviour because he's from Toronto. Almost like he thinks he's Neo or something - right place, right time type thing, and doesn't actually need to get dirty.

The contract shit just reaffirmed that. His joke of a video after he signed the contract where he sat on a rooftop and read off a script about how much he loves Toronto in his monotone voice just irked me. I still remember him posting wakeboarding videos while he wasn't signing and fans were freaking out. Like just totally unaware of public perception of him at the time.

Right, so not being from Toronto and only being there a handful of times, that part doesn't faze me. I have to say though, that I do believe he feels that way, would never have done that if he didn't... no point really. He just has one of those disingenuis persinalities and coupled with the contract fiasco it just looks worse. Which is fine provided you deliver when it counts... there have been lots of egotisical guys who were/are great players... but they delivered in big moments.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We should consider putting him with a third line center and another body to make him earn his paycheque. If this guy is Adam Oates Jr and can go at a 90 point pace with Bozak and Kadri, I'd be willing to take a hair cut if he could turn Kerfoot into a 50 point player. Why don't we use him to turn less productive players into viable scorers? Surely our two $11 million centers can look after themselves or share Nylander or whatever.

This should have happened in playoffs vs Habs .. give Mitch more room by putting him on 3rd line to give him more space .. move up Kerfoot and Willy with Matty to give us a power line which would have kicked *ss .. very poor coaching when you could see games were going against us .. especially game 7 at home nothing occured .. we decided to take it up da *ss on da bench

 

[Notsince67]

You discontinued our last discussion after I brought up Korpisalo from last year whom Point had no issues cracking and Marner shot another goose egg against.

Just curious what the next round of excuses is going to be when Tampa's stars finish destroying another goalie that had Leafs fans bending over backwards making excuses for their $11M players again.

You brought it up when I said that Nylander was able to stay on the positive side of the ledger only after shooting a crazy 25%, which I deemed lucky. You said it was normal and cited Point and I said...not against Price.
Nice try
Good luck with the rest of the games though