Mitch Marner discussion continues

[Notsince67]

hahahaha ... i forgot that expected goals wins games and not actually, you know, scoring more real goals than the other team ........
and 25% is a helluva lot better that ZERO ...........

You go ask for business advice from a person who made a ton of money winning the lottery then and see how well you fair.

 

[Gabriel426]

Not sure how much an argument to trade a 100+ pt player who generated a ton of scoring chances and was shut down by a hot goalie on a team going to the stanley cup does

What if the trade end up getting the Leafs a goalie that could be hot in the playoffs and shut down any forwards and lead the Leafs to a Cup.
The value of said trade is pretty fair value to me. Unless you think Marner is not good enough for such goalie? I certainly don’t think Willie is good enough for this type of goalie.
I think only AM and Marner can fetch the Leafs this type of goalies.

 

[Gallagbi]

Not sure how much an argument to trade a 100+ pt player who generated a ton of scoring chances and was shut down by a hot goalie on a team going to the stanley cup does

We could extend to his lackluster performance against CLB if you'd like.

I get we all see players struggling at times, but this seems to be a longer term trend with Marner in playoffs.

 

[Notsince67]

What if the trade end up getting the Leafs a goalie that could be hot in the playoffs and shut down any forwards and lead the Leafs to a Cup.
The value of said trade is pretty fair value to me. Unless you think Marner is not good enough for such goalie? I certainly don’t think Willie is good enough for this type of goalie.
I think only AM and Marner can fetch the Leafs this type of goalies.

Freeing up 7mm by trading Nylander would be sufficient to getting what the leafs need

 

[Notsince67]

We could extend to his lackluster performance against CLB if you'd like.

I get we all see players struggling at times, but this seems to be a longer term trend with Marner in playoffs.

Marner has as many playoff points as Matthew's and more than Nylander....and Nylander is older

 

[Stephen]

Freeing up 7mm by trading Nylander would be sufficient to getting what the leafs need

You don’t banish Nylander because Marner screwed up. Doesn’t make sense from a salary cap savings, doesn’t make sense from an accountability point of view, doesn’t make sense on the ice.

Moving forward, no one cares that Marner blocked two shots against Boston and scored 9 points in a series once upon a time. Do the job or don’t.

 

[ER89]

You forgot about all the goals that went in the net the other way while willy was on the ice

Uh him and jt were scored the least on 5v5 amongst our forwards. Like you've got to be f***ing me or just dense. Mitch was absolutely dogshit defensively in the playoffs so its not like he stepped up either. Paul instead of defending your kid, maybe you should tell him to stop being a complete bitch and to stop doing flybys. The same advice can be taken by you as well.

 

[Notsince67]

You don’t banish Nylander because Marner screwed up. Doesn’t make sense from a salary cap savings, doesn’t make sense from an accountability point of view, doesn’t make sense on the ice.

Moving forward, no one cares that Marner blocked two shots against Boston and scored 9 points in a series once upon a time. Do the job or don’t.

Not banishing anyone. I would chose to keep the better player.
Usage at all seems to indicate that the organization would likely concur

 

[JT AM da real deal]

ahhhhhh speed. Those goals were due to high level speed were they? Back to that. Does caufield have enough speed to fit you dumb theory btw?

Did you watch how he went from a standstill and blew by McNabb with speed to outside for a blow by goal last night? .. it was a pure speed and then an incredibly skilled shot .. we don't have 1 single guy including Matty/Willy who can pull off that play .. that is our exact problem up front guys with skill but no guys with speed and skill .. you need both .. Kerfoot could do blow by but then has no skill for finish .. Willy has our best chance at it and he is still not explosive enough to do blow by

 

[Gallagbi]

Marner has as many playoff points as Matthew's and more than Nylander....and Nylander is older

I hope he has more than Nylander given he makes 4m/yr more. Just sad that Nylander was so much more effective than him this playoff and last.

Matthews has also been the better player in 4 of the 5 season playoff appearances. It's nice Marner put together 1 nice run, but it is troubling to see his ongoing playoff struggles and poor decision making.

Nobody should be saying Marner is worthless, but his lack of production killed us the past 2 playoffs. He was the weak link of our big money players. This year he didn't finish, last year he simply didn't generate. Neither is good and it's tough to use his defensive abilities to prop up that lack of production given the numbers late in the series and how many of the GA he contributed to.

 

[Trapper]

Not banishing anyone. I would chose to keep the better player.
Usage at all seems to indicate that the organization would likely concur

I would rather change the GM, have the new guy meet with everyone 1 on 1, explain the identity moving forward and evaluate based on that without prejudice or being to emotionally involved in the signings and promises made.

That seems like a win-win for all. Protect the current assets while setting new expectations.

 

[ACC1224]

This series was the best 7 games I have ever seen from Nylander, never seen him compete so hard for pucks and engage physically. Hopefully he saw for himself what results he garners when he plays like that and we see it every game going forward. But it was much more than just "happening to put up a few points", he looked determined to make something happen every shift and played a mature game. He played great and deserves credit for it.

IMO, he stood out because the others were a non factor. Agreed he was more engaged but he also had the flybys he’s been known for as well as the over the glass penalty to avoid contact that seems to have been attributed to Marner. For the most part he looked like a 7 million dollar player, problem is the 11 million dollar players didn’t.

 

[Notsince67]

Uh him and jt were scored the least on 5v5 amongst our forwards. Like you've got to be f***ing me or just dense. Mitch was absolutely dogshit defensively in the playoffs so its not like he stepped up either. Paul instead of defending your kid, maybe you should tell him to stop being a complete bitch and to stop doing flybys. The same advice can be taken by you as well.

1 goal scored against 5x5 in game 7 and a soft one at that. That is it...for the whole series.
I dont know what drugs you are smoking but in took 19 periods before montreal could score on that line and it was an ugly one on the part of cambell.

 

[Gabriel426]

Freeing up 7mm by trading Nylander would be sufficient to getting what the leafs need

Really? In your opinion, 7mil plus whatever from UFA leaving the Leafs is the difference between losing in the 1st round and Cup.
For someone who crap on Willie, and stated he is lucky and decent, you sure have high hopes in what he can net in trade.

 

[WTFMAN99]

IMO, he stood out because the others were a non factor. Agreed he was more engaged but he also had the flybys he’s been known for as well as the over the glass penalty to avoid contact that seems to have been attributed to Marner. For the most part he looked like a 7 million dollar player, problem is the 11 million dollar players didn’t.

I think right now when you look at the cap, how much better do you do on a player than Nylander at 6.9M? It's tough

How do you do better on 1-2 players with 10.93M? Seems much more plausible.

 

[Notsince67]

Really? In your opinion, 7mil plus whatever from UFA leaving the Leafs is the difference between losing in the 1st round and Cup.
For someone who crap on Willie, and stated he is lucky and decent, you sure have high hopes in what he can net in trade.

No....I was responding to the same fool who has attacked Marner for years because he cant handle the fact that Marner is better than his crush, Nylander. I said if there is a big 4 trade, its Nylander. I have said that I hope the leafs keep them all.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

IMO, he stood out because the others were a non factor. Agreed he was more engaged but he also had the flybys he’s been known for as well as the over the glass penalty to avoid contact that seems to have been attributed to Marner. For the most part he looked like a 7 million dollar player, problem is the 11 million dollar players didn’t.

The over the glass penalty was attributed to Marner because he did it multiple times this series, as opposed to Nylander who only did it once.
And disagree, he legitimately played incredible. I have a lot of friends who are Habs fans who said he scared them everytime he had the puck, not to mention he was playing with Kerfoot and Galchenyuk who are both not even 2nd line quality forwards.

 

[Notsince67]

I would rather change the GM, have the new guy meet with everyone 1 on 1, explain the identity moving forward and evaluate based on that without prejudice or being to emotionally involved in the signings and promises made.

That seems like a win-win for all. Protect the current assets while setting new expectations.

Well it's unlikely that Dubas will be allowed to fire a second coach...which might be necessary if his tactics doesnt get better. I think this core can win with the right type of coaching. The PP was good until people.figured it out and the leafs failed to adapt. The big scorers were shut down with no line movement or change in attack tactics. Keefe needs a bigger toolbox.

 

[Trapper]

Well it's unlikely that Dubas will be allowed to fire a second coach...which might be necessary if his tactics doesnt get better. I think this core can win with the right type of coaching. The PP was good until people.figured it out and the leafs failed to adapt. The big scorers were shut down with no line movement or change in attack tactics. Keefe needs a bigger toolbox.

That’s the thing, to save the core for people (and I believe a trade should happen) but for arguments sake of keeping it, a new GM would certainly be in line to hire a new coach with a new philosophy.

It might even save the core and help them along.
Washington fired McPhee, new GM, new expectations.

 

[Stephen]

Not banishing anyone. I would chose to keep the better player.
Usage at all seems to indicate that the organization would likely concur

The whole organization is walking the plank anyway if this doesn’t get back on track, so to appeal to their authority is a moot point.

 

[ACC1224]

The over the glass penalty was attributed to Marner because he did it multiple times this series, as opposed to Nylander who only did it once.
And disagree, he legitimately played incredible. I have a lot of friends who are Habs fans who said he scared them everytime he had the puck, not to mention he was playing with Kerfoot and Galchenyuk who are both not even 2nd line quality forwards.

Didn’t Marner just do it the one brain dead time?
I have no problem with how Nylander played. He played like a player of his caliber at his pay grade should play. I’ve gotten use to his avoidance of contact and fly bys.

 

[Stephen]

I feel bad for the flack that Paul Marner gets sometimes. Our first introduction to Marner was as an aggressive hockey parent on that CBC documentary as Mitch is losing a playoff game but his message is a little too on the nose.

Mitch fails to score and his team gets blown out in elimination and his dad tells him he only showed up in the third, should hit guys to make his presence known and “was that just another game?”

 

[IPS]

I think willie is decent. 25% shooting % is lucky

I'll stand by what I said. Flip the stats with Marner and Nylander these playoffs and you're not invading every Marner and Nylander thread with every 2nd post saying it's just all luck.

 

[VanW27]

Forget role/usage/whos the better player/whatever else, the problem with trading Nylander over Marner is simple - Money

Our forward depth is garbage, if we trade Marner or Nylander we still need a quality top 6 forward back. Replacing Nylander with a lesser player who's still a quality top 6 guy only saves you ~2 million, that's not a lot to use elsewhere to fix the depth problems. Trading Marner for a lesser top 6 player saves you ~5 million, that's enough to make a difference.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Marner’s relationship with the fans has taken a huge hit. His contract, poor playoff performances and the flat cap have made him a hated player in Toronto. This sucks, what a depressing offseason. Every time I hear his name I just think of him shooting the puck over the glass.