Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[IPS]

I saw a tweet today form Friedman's most recent 31 thoughts podcast which included this "CJ (Chris Johnston) says that this is really about respect. Rookie bonuses, not getting ice time early in his career."

Is that true? Beats me, but if it is it goes back to what I said early last summer (where I brought up those very issues) and said that Lou was replaced because of the atmosphere he and Babcock created. The big three hate the way they have been treated and they want to compensated for the BS they have put up. Dubas was promoted to clean up the mess and try to get the big three to buy in again, but if they are fed up with Babs and the way Lou ran things they will probably not give an inch and the contracts for the big 3 will be much more expensive than people think they will be.

Lou was a terrible GM. Dubas has been brought in to try to stop the train wreck from occurring, yet he is the one who is going to take the blame (as was the case after the playoffs when Dubas accepted all the blame, and Babcock blamed everyone and everything else for his obvious coaching incompetence).

I mean how pissed off would you be if you were Auston Matthews? He spent the first 2 years on the 2nd PP unit with the likes of Marleau, Komarov, Brown, etc... despite being the best offensive player on the team. Literally no other team in history as done this, exclude their best goal-scorer from the top PP unit.

No f***ing shit Matthews milked the Leafs for every penny. He's proven multiple times that he's bare-minimum a top-3 goal-scorer in the league (5v5 best, by a good margin) and our complete idiot of a coach decides he shouldn't be on PP1, thus costing him the most valuable offensive minutes he could be used for and thus barring him from earning more money via artificially suppressing his production.. His usage throughout his short career has been utterly disgraceful.

What's funny too is that the player we saw in the 1st year is not the same player we've seen in years 2 and 3. As a rookie, he had a non-stop motor and was remarkable defensively for being a rookie. Part way through year 2 he just straight up stopped giving a shit (I truly believe it's because he hates Babcock with a passion), his effort level has been extremely inconsistent in years 2 and 3 and we've yet to see him put forth the same effort he did in his rookie year.

Seeing Marner put out the sentiments that he was unhappy with his TOI, being jipped of rookie bonuses etc etc... most likely mirrors what Matthews thinks too. And Marner didn't even get the worst end of it either. Either way though, these 2 have watched things like their PP time get artificially cut short only to see scrubs like Marleau and Brown have it. This undoubtedly pisses them off. It legit pains me to say that Matthews may not even be a Leaf in 5 years time.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Lol

 

[ULF_55]

I thought the discussion about how other team's aren't going to care about Matthews contract during negotiations with Marner.

Other teams would be looking at other contracts around the league, example Kucherov's.

Matthews contract is irrelevant to all team except Toronto.

 

[Stephen]

Carolina just dumped Calvin De Haan and his $4.55m cap hit to Chi for prospects....$24.6m free now.
Maybe they snagged our 1st rounder because they will be sending us their next 4? Which they have available btw...
The plot thickens.

Or they're a budget team making the Marleau buyout money work, essentially turning de Haan into a 1st...

 

[Havoc]

hmmm if it's Anaheim, LA or (gasp) Ottawa that offer sheets for 11 + mil....have to seriously consider letting Marner walk.


These are the only teams that suck enough to end up in the bottom 5 even with Marner added.

Any other team gets shot straight into the playoffs if they're on the bubble or go straight to contender if already a playoff team. Have to match these teams no matter what.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Perry actually brings something to this team that we desperately need. If we could get him for 2 years at 2.5 million, I don't think there's a single person that could complain about that deal.

Hello

 

[MagicalRazor]

What was marners offer he got so far I've read 11mill x 8 and burke said 10x8

 

[Lightsol]

Losing marner to keep Tavares would be idiotic. Marner was at worst slightly behind Tavares this season. He is 6 years younger than JT. If you move one of them its Tavares.

You know what would be doubly idiotic? Losing Marner because you insist on keeping guys like Nylander and Kadri...

 

[nuck]

hmmm if it's Anaheim, LA or (gasp) Ottawa that offer sheets for 11 + mil....have to seriously consider letting Marner walk.


These are the only teams that suck enough to end up in the bottom 5 even with Marner added.

Any other team gets shot straight into the playoffs if they're on the bubble or go straight to contender if already a playoff team. Have to match these teams no matter what.

The Oilers did not make the playoffs with two 100pt guys and Marner did not make the leafs a contender this year. Its just one guy, he can't make a team succeed unless they were already successful and only needed 26 goals to make them a division winner. You match if you can afford it, or if it isnt enough to get you the 4 1sts and you will trade at least three of the OS 1sts before training camp so you are never trying to unload Cup finalist picks under any circumstances.

The idea of getting top 5 picks after an MM offer sheet is an insane win, just like getting the pick plus Panarin. Nice but they don't need that to survive without one player.

 

[supermann_98]

I'm already kinda excited about the chance that whoever signs Mitch to an offer sheet could possibly surrender a lottery pick that could turn into Alexis Lafreniere.

 

[18leafsfan18]

One more day before the tour of the other teams. Dubas should offer him the final offer that expires at midnight. Call their bluff.

If they go out and look for offer sheets and nothing comes up, Dubas should lower his offer.

Mitch and co will look really bad going on those tours, no more fan favorite.

 

[Stigma]

Haha! On a side note, I can't wait until the "cute socks" and floods era ends.

 

[Metroid]

I'm already kinda excited about the chance that whoever signs Mitch to an offer sheet could possibly surrender a lottery pick that could turn into Alexis Lafreniere.

How great would it be to draft him in Montreal next year!!

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I thought the discussion about how other team's aren't going to care about Matthews contract during negotiations with Marner.

Other teams would be looking at other contracts around the league, example Kucherov's.

Matthews contract is irrelevant to all team except Toronto.

I'm starting to think this way as well.

Most teams seems to have relatively equal caps for their best players. Pitts has Malk/Cros, Kessel
Tampa has Stam/Kuch/Point (Who i think will sign 9mil, right between Kuch and Stam)
Boston has berg/marc/pasta
Anaheim Getz, Kesser, Perry (had)
Philly has Giroux, voracek, JVR and than *cough* hayes
St Louis has Tara, Oreilly

Etc, etc, etc, not going through all the teams. I'm sure there are examples to the contrary, but it is fascinating.

However, I don't like where this points toward Toronto..... Matthews, JT, Marner.....

I like what Hayes said though.... Marner only gets that Matthews comparable in Toronto. If he wants to offersheet, than no other team will use Matthews which would put him back at the 9-9.5ish range.

I can't see Nashville being like.... "Here, take double what we pay Forsberg" kinda thing....
On top of that, he gotta be making close to 2mil now on endorsements. Enjoy doing Chevy commercials and not honky tonks BBQ...... just saying

 

[Riellyfan04]

who are our RFAs next season? lol hope we dont have to go through this again next season! we need a break

 

[HappyJoy]

You know what would be doubly idiotic? Losing Marner because you insist on keeping guys like Nylander and Kadri...

Yes, get rid of one reasonable and a great contract to pay marner the sun and the moon. I hope Dubas isn't that stupid.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yes, get rid of one reasonable and a great contract to pay marner the sun and the moon. I hope Dubas isn't that stupid.

At least Marner plays in the playoffs.

 

[GoonieFace]

I mean how pissed off would you be if you were Auston Matthews? He spent the first 2 years on the 2nd PP unit with the likes of Marleau, Komarov, Brown, etc... despite being the best offensive player on the team. Literally no other team in history as done this, exclude their best goal-scorer from the top PP unit.

No ****ing **** Matthews milked the Leafs for every penny. He's proven multiple times that he's bare-minimum a top-3 goal-scorer in the league (5v5 best, by a good margin) and our complete idiot of a coach decides he shouldn't be on PP1, thus costing him the most valuable offensive minutes he could be used for and thus barring him from earning more money via artificially suppressing his production.. His usage throughout his short career has been utterly disgraceful.

What's funny too is that the player we saw in the 1st year is not the same player we've seen in years 2 and 3. As a rookie, he had a non-stop motor and was remarkable defensively for being a rookie. Part way through year 2 he just straight up stopped giving a **** (I truly believe it's because he hates Babcock with a passion), his effort level has been extremely inconsistent in years 2 and 3 and we've yet to see him put forth the same effort he did in his rookie year.

Seeing Marner put out the sentiments that he was unhappy with his TOI, being jipped of rookie bonuses etc etc... most likely mirrors what Matthews thinks too. And Marner didn't even get the worst end of it either. Either way though, these 2 have watched things like their PP time get artificially cut short only to see scrubs like Marleau and Brown have it. This undoubtedly pisses them off. It legit pains me to say that Matthews may not even be a Leaf in 5 years time.

So basically, Matthews is a whiny baby that gives up on his team if things don't go his way? Sounds like captain material.

 

[HappyJoy]

At least Marner plays in the playoffs.

Didn't he have 0 shots in a couple of games? And his PK prowess I've heard so much about didn't stop Boston from scoring. I'd say he had more of a negative effect than a positive.

 

[janesy12]

Call his bluff.
There's no offer sheet coming, this is ridiculous. Who the hell is going to offer Marner $10.5 per year and surrender 4 1st rounders?
Islanders, Wings, Habs, Devils, Hurricanes, Coyotes, Sabres, Sens, Ducks, Predators, Panthers, Blue Jackets, & Avalanche are the only teams with picks, and enough cap space to do so IMO.
Out of those teams, only a few are good enough to not worry about surrendering multiple lottery picks, and have owners not afraid to spend money.
So realistically you have the Preds, Habs, Islanders, Panthers, Blue Jackets & Avalanche.

Preds are likely signing Duchene, so there goes the cap space, they're out.

Habs would have to move a couple of contracts beforehand, but they could be realistic. Although they maybe overachieved last year and could find themselves in the basement again next year. Imagine giving up Alex Lafreniere to Toronto 1st overall when the draft is in Montreal.

Islanders - Lou understands the Leafs front office and maybe has the inside track, they have the picks and the cap space to do so with yet another Captain leaving their franchise. Although I really think last year was a fluke and the Lehner and the team will come back down to earth. Should be a couple of lottery picks there. Lou is old school though, so would he want to cause friction with his old club and the other GMs with an offer sheet to a financial giant like the Leafs? Barzal is a RFA next year. Interesting.

Panthers - Rumours of Bob and Panarin signing there. So they're out if that happens.

Blue Jackets - They currently have no goaltender, only Korpisalo who's also a UFA. They have the picks as next year's 1st overall is tied to Duchene resigning and that looks like its not happening.
So they have $30m in cap space to sign a couple goalies, some forwards, and they also have two RFA defenseman who could be targets as well. Werenski and Murray.

Avalanche - $35m in cap space currently, with a few decent RFA's to sign, and of course Rantanen. Even with all of their guy signed they should still have plenty of cap space to offer sheet Marner or any of the other RFA's. In all honesty, this is the team I'd hope for an offer sheet from if I was Marner. A great young team that are getting better and better. I still have doubts though as they have Makar, Jost and Girard as RFA's in the next 2 years.

 

[janesy12]

At least Marner plays in the playoffs.

Jesus. He blocked 2 shots and the end of one game. After the first couple of games in the recent Boston series he was nearly non existent even while playing with Tavares.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Jesus. He blocked 2 shots and the end of one game. After the first couple of games in the recent Boston series he was nearly non existent even while playing with Tavares.

Kadri was in the press box, that's who I was talking about.

 

[janesy12]

Kadri was in the press box, that's who I was talking about.

Oh, my mistake then. Yes, Kadri cost us in both series. He can be a difference maker and was stuck eating popcorn for being stupid.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Didn't he have 0 shots in a couple of games? And his PK prowess I've heard so much about didn't stop Boston from scoring. I'd say he had more of a negative effect than a positive.

But he plays in 100% of the playoff games, something you can't say about Kadri.

 

[DarkKnight]

I still believe this is all posturing. I also think the offer sheet is just a tactic and Dubas would be well advised to let it play out because there isn’t one coming. Eliminate that leverage. And, in the unlikely event a team goes beyond 10.5, then you consider the 4 picks and the abundant cap space, which we’ve already acknowledged is worth a lot. Sit tight Kyle, don’t fold this time, the offer sheet is remote and even so it’s really Marner’s camp “risking” you let him go. Bottom line, his agent knows how much endorsement money he loses not being here, not to mention having to walk around the area a despised man. Ain’t happening.